Hi guys,
I had a quick question. I'm starting to get the itch for an ICE set, as I've always liked them, but considered them too expensive for what they are. (a Grey Mouse can be had for the same price and its metal etc...)

However I've noticed Piko makes an ICE set in HO AC, and at quite a fair price. I haven't seen the model, and before taking it seriously I was wondering if it is in fact the marklin one, just badged as a Piko? I know Piko does make a lot of Marklin's freight cars, and I was curious if the same is true for the ICE?

Also, what else do they make for Marklin- does anyone know?

Maerklin used to have a manufacturing plant in Sonneberg (former GDR) which also is the home town of Piko. I do not know if there ever was any sort of link between the two companies other than their plants were in the same town. Piko built it's own version of the ICE 3. Maerklin claimed that Piko had "reverse engineered" their model and filed a law suit. The court ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove the allegation. The fact remains that there are a few Piko items that appear very similar to models of other brands.
Proving reverse engineering can be very hard to prove. Sometimes, the manufacturer might leave a more visible clue. A recent production of SBB EWI (with a suspect indent in the bogie molding) may have been reverse engineered from Lima's model and a recent production of German UIC-X coaches (with suspect slots in the bottom of the chassis) may have been reverse engineered from Roco's 1:87 models (where those same slots serve a practical function).

Regards

Mike C

The Märklin ICE is in length scale 1:89 (though the catalogue says 1:87).
The Piko ICE is in length scale 1:89 - and AFAIK even the power conducting couplers are compatible.
Not enough evidence ...

It's about as good as the Märklin model (optically).

I have no idea whether gears and motor are similar or different.

Regarding Piko and Märklin.
My limited observation:-
Piko marketed a 4 wheel wagon with kinematic coupling under the Prefo brand. The same wagon is sold by Märklin.
I have the Prefo wagon, but without the Märklin wagon, I cannot tell if it comes from the same moulding.

regards
Kimball

Has it got Interior Lighting??

NN

Only the Velaro Sapsan (37787) will have a true sound decoder though.
37786 only comes with a cheapo sound module.
Previous Marklin ICEs still have 6090x decoder with no sound.

37786 has white LED for interior lighting with excellent light distribution (and low current consumption) - though the sparepart diagrams is still showing old light bulbs like the previous models (37883 and below).
37787 will most definately come with white LED as well.

There are no freight or passenger cars made by Piko for Märklin, and there weren't any in the past.

There were some car types made by both firms, which look the same at first glance, but looking more closely, you will find severeal differences.

Piko freight cars were popular among Western German railfans before 1990 as the traditional Western German firms like Märklin and Fleischmann had ignored the freight car market for years. For example, Märklin released several excellent freight cars in the 1960ies, but in the 1970ies they started their cheap 44xx series, for which they sacrificed some of the nice 46xx models. One of these infamous examples was the Tehs50 reefer - model #4620 was a very good in exact 1:87 scale, but it was replaced with a 1:110 "plastic bucket" #4415.

A model released by both Märklin and Piko was that acid tank wagon; actually, both firms did an excellent job.


There are rumors that Piko designed Märklin's E 04 and Ae 3/6 in the late 1970ies / early 1980ies, but I don't think they are true.

Regards,
Florian

The price of 37787 offers only incremental increase over 37786 with sound module...
so Marklin is baiting us with better value in the newer model, though as one of those who already bought a 37786, I felt a bit screwed by this marketing/pricing strategy.

In saying that, I agree with your statement..
Given a choice, these days, I would tend to opt a no sound version everytime and pocketed the savings.

I have a Maerklin and a Mehano ICE-3, and I think the Mehano is a better train. However, there are two downsides with the Mehano: (1) the red lights on the dummy end are red and do not change over, and (2) Mehano is now out of business AFAIK.--MM

My BR 120 (6090 decoder) easily beats the ICE (60901 decoder).

My ICE 3 doesn't reach its prototypical speed (only about 250 km/h where it should be 330 km/h).

My BR 141 with Delta Decoder also beats the ICE 3 - but only on R3 and with tin plate coaches.
Running single on R2 it'll fall off the track and lose the competition.

Hi Tom,
Pretty sure Dale Schultz reported in his website that his ICE-3 could hit scale speed of 300kph plus,
and he actually had to tune it down for his layout..
(I think it's a 37783)

From its speed settings,
I can only estimate that 37786 would be around 30% faster at maximum speed (at least) compared to the next fastest lok.
(I don't really have anything to measure scale speed...)

Hello Bill,
FYI , the Piko ICE 3 is the worst train I have used .The Piko ICE hates the full speed and it will whine until it derails !! :( And Piko tracks are IMHO a waste of time. They break too easily and electric conduction is a joke and it runs out of power easily.so I decided to focus on Marklin. Hope it helps.

I would just like to add my two penneth on the court case.

From experience it is very hard to prove that someone has copied your design, and often the courts resort back to any patents to establish if information has in fact been stolen or copied. Just because something looks the same does not always mean the other party have stolen your design / information. In some cases the overall product may look very similar but the individual pieces that make up the end product are different and therefore the courts would rule it is not the same product.

With most engineering and design related issues, there is a process which must be gone through to take an idea from concept to working model, and I assume Marklin lose their court case because Piko were able to provide sufficient design development data to support their claim that the product had been developed by them. If this was not the basis of the court case, then maybe Marklin need new lawyers.

I believe that Marklin products cost what they do because of the work that goes into them, and that if Marklin could sell more products and increase their market share accordingly by selling the product cheaper (and still cover costs and make a profit), then they would. Accordingly I would say that if a product is half the price of the Marklin equivalent, then you get what you pay for.

BR

Glenn

P.S.: What I do find interesting is when both Trix and Marklin make an item but the Trix item is cheaper than the Marklin item, is it of a lesser quality, because I assume they share moulds and designs, rather than making two of each item????

Hi,

If they are a true copy of the prototype,then should they not look the same in every way,
No matter the manufacturer?
Just a thought.

Jay