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Offline Enebakk  
#1 Posted : 03 September 2009 01:07:38(UTC)
Enebakk


Joined: 27/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Enebakk,
Hi,

I have an analog train that I'll like to convert to a digital train. I have never done this before, but beeing a techie I've got no problems jumping into it.
But, where do I start? Are there convertion sets I can use or am I better of doing this step by step buying individual parts?

I hope anybody out there has done something like this and can give me a bundle of good advice.

Johnnybiggrin
Offline intruder  
#2 Posted : 03 September 2009 01:36:04(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hi, Johnny.

Somebody will soon wake up and tell you, but in the meantime you can find many examples of different conversions on my website.

As far as I know, the 3060 has a <s>Large Flat Commutator Motor (LFCM)</s> Drum Commutator Motor (DCM), so Märklin conversion set <s>60924</s> 60921 will most likely fit. The set includes all the required motor parts to convert it to a 5-star motor, which runs much smoother than the 3-star originally fitted.
The set also includes a mfx decoder, noise supressors and some other small parts.
It is rather expencive, so there are cheaper options, like the Delta decoder 66032, which uses the original motor.

Some other manufactorers have some other solutions, but I leave it to people with more experience than me to tell you.

Edit: correction of motor type error, or maybe the 3060 has been made with both LFCM and DCM?
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline rschaffr  
#3 Posted : 03 September 2009 02:33:42(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Johnnie

Sorry I am late in getting to you, but I have not really had time lately to view much on the users net. I converted mine several years ago, but I did a full high performance motor upgrade and a LokSound 3.5 decoder. Total cos on a conversion like that is well over 100USD. If you are looking to just make it run digital, the marklin conversion kit above should satisfy you. I have many more things I intend to do with mine whenever get the chance...plan to make the marker lights addressable, include a MARS light, and harwire the three units (I also have a "B" unit) so all functions work in either direction. Maybe a winter project this year.

Added: Actually this is a pretty good lok to do your first conversion on. There is plenty of space in it. Some of them you really have t be creative to get the decoder to fit properly.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Philip  
#4 Posted : 03 September 2009 06:56:50(UTC)
Philip


Joined: 20/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 267
Location: , Denmark
Hello Johnny

take a look at this site: http://www.digital-train.com/

have fun
Philip
Philip.

Let's keep it simple.
MFDWPL
Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 03 September 2009 07:12:35(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Get yourself onto the internet and search ebay.de for conversion sets. around the Euro 30.-- mark.
I've used 5mm led's to fit into the lighthole.
So there are a few options available to you how to convert it.

regards.,
John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Enebakk  
#6 Posted : 07 September 2009 02:10:41(UTC)
Enebakk


Joined: 27/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Enebakk,
Thank you very much.
I will try the 60291 converter, and keep you updated as to the progress. It will probably take some time as this is a job for the cold season.

Again thanks everyone.
Johnny
Offline rhobson1968  
#7 Posted : 10 September 2009 23:24:57(UTC)
rhobson1968


Joined: 21/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Simpsonville, SC
I would sell it and buy a new one already converted. I had 22 analog trains that I wanted to convert, but after buying a couple of new digital ones I decided to let go... It was hard at first but once I had my new ones I was much happier. They run so much better and require less work. I am thinking of doing this with my wife too.. haha..
Never quit building.
Offline xxup  
#8 Posted : 06 October 2013 07:58:17(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Sorry to reopen this old topic, but I am slightly confused about the outcome of this post. Miss 14 and I have a 3160 Santa Fe set from 1964/65, which includes a 3060 loco. This loco is the first one that Miss 14 used, when she was Miss 3 and we thought that for its 50th birthday we would convert it to digital. I know that it will probably be cheaper to buy a nice digital Santa Fe, but the loco has sentimental value and there is not enough room to lay an analogue track in the train room/office/game room/brain room.

The problem is that the motor is SFCM (I think) and has eight teeth (I know). This is quite different to the two motors described by Intruder (Svein) in an earlier post. I have included a photo of the disassembled loco for your review in case I have not identified the motor correctly.

We would like to convert this to a soundless loco. Mfx is preferred - less hassle with updating the eCOS and WindigiPet.

What do we need? Confused

Thanks
xxup attached the following image(s):
3060.jpg
sfcm.jpg
Adrian
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 06 October 2013 08:25:44(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Adrian, get the 60944 kit, that has the motor parts for the LFCM, which includes 2 rotors for both 7 and 8 tooth engines. I don't think this is a SFCM engine.
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Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 06 October 2013 14:16:24(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Adrian, get the 60944 kit, that has the motor parts for the LFCM, which includes 2 rotors for both 7 and 8 tooth engines. I don't think this is a SFCM engine.


Dave and Adrian,

I would try 60943. 60944 is for a large LFCM and this is definitely not a large flat commuter.

all F 7 came with SFCM and later changed to DCM.

You could change the lights with led's use a lokplilot with adapter plate and you can use the 4 Aux functions for your different lights, upper, lower or both and the road number plate and interior light for the motor compartment.

regards.,

John
river6109 attached the following image(s):
picture 5.JPG
picture 4.JPG
motor.JPG
interior light.JPG
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Offline DamonKelly  
#11 Posted : 06 October 2013 14:24:40(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,421
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Adrian, if it is an SFCM, I've probably got the bits required in my "project box".
Give me a ring after this week, and I'll have a look.
Cheers,
Damon
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Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 06 October 2013 14:41:06(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: DamonKelly Go to Quoted Post
Adrian, if it is an SFCM, I've probably got the bits required in my "project box".
Give me a ring after this week, and I'll have a look.


Adrian could use 1200 wet and dry, drill a hole big enough to take the shaft into a wooden block, place the sand paper onto it and press the commuter into the hole and turn the commuter forwards and backwards and you will get a shine surface.

regards.,

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Oliver nagel  
#13 Posted : 06 October 2013 15:08:24(UTC)
Oliver nagel

United States   
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Allegany
I have just converted a 3060, The motor is a Small Flat Commutator Motor SFCM. What I did is remove all the dirt and old oil from the gears using dish soap water and a tooth brush, then oiled the gears again , Then I cleaned the commutator with tooth paste to remove all dirt and carbon. Order kit #64631 from Loksound/Esu this contains the chokes, decoder and magnet plus order new brushes Marklin 601460. Read the instructions 3 or 4 times from loksound then put it back together. Also there are two websites I use http://www.ajckids.com/TRAINS/MAIN.ASP?nr=92 and http://www.esu.eu/en/pro.../lokpilot-digital-sets/,

Good Luck Oliver
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Offline jvuye  
#14 Posted : 06 October 2013 15:41:37(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Adrian, get the 60944 kit, that has the motor parts for the LFCM, which includes 2 rotors for both 7 and 8 tooth engines. I don't think this is a SFCM engine.


Sorry to contradict you, but this is an *S*FCM motor, thus requiring a 60943 kit.
If you'd like MfX I suggest using an ESU Lokpilot M4 V4.0 which IMHO is definitely the best value currently and the easiest to program and obtain consistent results.
Thes is even a little "auto-tune" feature which adjusts the regualtion parameters automatically, which removes one of the main difficulties of adapting thes decoders to the motors.
In addition to that, I'd say that the "recommended value" documented in the manual are pretty close to ideal.
If you have a Lokprogrammer , you rae even going to enjoy doing this...and will play with the parameters , "just for fun"!
I'm not associated with ESU, I'm just reporting from my own experience from many years of converting locos.
My two cents
Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline xxup  
#15 Posted : 06 October 2013 16:33:46(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Thank you John, Oliver, Jacques, David and Damon,

I have ordered the Marklin 60943 Set and the ESU 64610 M4 v4 decoder. They should arrived in a couple of weeks.

I will also take up John's suggestion to use LEDs. The current one just has one large bulb, which probably will consume buckets of power.

Does anyone know the part number of the tyres - there are two missing and the other two are looking very sad.

I have a few locos and this is the first SFCM I have ever seen.
Adrian
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Offline intruder  
#16 Posted : 06 October 2013 16:52:30(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
rhobson1968 wrote:
I would sell it and buy a new one already converted. I had 22 analog trains that I wanted to convert, but after buying a couple of new digital ones I decided to let go... It was hard at first but once I had my new ones I was much happier. They run so much better and require less work. I am thinking of doing this with my wife too.. haha..



I prefer to do it the other way around. I buy some new locomotives, but I like very much to buy older second hand locomotives and convert them to digital, using the different Märklin conversion sets. Sometimes I swap the decoders around, so according to my statistics the total number of retrofitted decoders are 127. It will soon be even higher.

Sorry for my very late reply/comment.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Offline jeehring  
#17 Posted : 06 October 2013 17:19:59(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Adrian, get the 60944 kit, that has the motor parts for the LFCM, which includes 2 rotors for both 7 and 8 tooth engines. I don't think this is a SFCM engine.


...(...)...
Thes is even a little "auto-tune" feature which adjusts the regualtion parameters automatically, which removes one of the main difficulties of adapting thes decoders to the motors.
...Cheers



Here, they just work for themselves : ESU is proposing one single type of decoder that must fit to many many... many different types of motors . That's typically a decoder designed for DCC market. I mean : more useful for two rails market.
2 rails market = a lot of different brands = different models = different design = a lot of different types of motors...Mainly facing to the lack of information about "what kind of motor I got on my 2 rails LOK & how to to have a good tuning"... this may be a better feature to compete other DCC decoders manufacturers, I consider it mainly as a " good commercial argument"...
In the world of Marklin 3 rails users generally don't share same questioning...Marklin has published some lists of models for each kind of Marklin decoders...( actually I would like to find one for myself...;don't remember where it is...RollEyes LOL )
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Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 06 October 2013 17:51:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
2 rails market = a lot of different brands = different models = different design = a lot of different types of motors...
Lots of different motors reminds me of the market leader in the three-rail market. I had trouble getting smooth running from a 60942 in a relatively new Märklin loco.
ESU provides useful information about setting load regulation and many suggested values for different kinds of motors (half the list is for MäTrix motors).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jvuye  
#19 Posted : 06 October 2013 20:56:51(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Thank you John, Oliver, Jacques, David and Damon,...
.....
Does anyone know the part number of the tyres - there are two missing and the other two are looking very sad.
....


You are quite welcome.
The tires are 7154.
Have fun with the conversion!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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xxupH0
Offline Hoffmann  
#20 Posted : 06 October 2013 21:17:47(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Hello Adrian,

One more thing to remember ( if memory serves me right ) the bottom screw on the new Brush-Plate will be to long pay attention to that.

Martin
marklin-eh
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Offline seatrains  
#21 Posted : 06 October 2013 21:33:58(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
Adrian, I would like to convert my BN F7 to sound like thisFlapper

Good luck with the conversion and update us on your progress.
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#22 Posted : 07 October 2013 11:19:20(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Sorry to contradict you, but this is an *S*FCM motor, thus requiring a 60943 kit.


Seems a bit nuts to have a SFCM in such a large loco. When Adrian mentioned 8 teeth on the anker, I immediately thought of the 60944 kit, as I've just fitted one to my 3021 V200 (that uses the 7 tooth anker - both are included in the kit).

My F7 is a 33622 Delta loco which I brought off John Canton. That has a DCM motor, and I've converted it with a 60941 motor kit and msD sound decoder. I also have a 4060 Dummy 'A' unit, and a 4063 'B' unit.
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Offline Oliver nagel  
#23 Posted : 07 October 2013 14:10:26(UTC)
Oliver nagel

United States   
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Allegany
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Offline foumaro  
#24 Posted : 07 October 2013 17:08:48(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
My contribution to this topic,I converted my Santa Fe 3662 which have two motors with two 60941 motors and one 60942 decoder.Runs like a dream and pulling everything I put after her.No sounds but who cares?
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Offline xxup  
#25 Posted : 22 October 2013 08:19:23(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
An update. The digital conversion parts arrived last week, but today was the first time in ages that I could get started on the conversion.

Of course, I stripped down the loco and washed all the parts in Kerosene with a brush and then soaked in a white spirit to remove the kerosene. Assembled all the bits with minimal lubrication, and then disassembled and swapped the orange and grey wires so it would run in the correct direction. ESU say grey wire to right side of motor, but it works the other way around.. Must be a northern to southern hemisphere thing.. RollEyes

Configure the decoder with my new Lokprogrammer and V4 of the software. Set for a five pole motor, switch off all the DCC stuff and give the decoder a mFX name.. Very smooth running.

All working well on the roller test stand, so off to start the calibration using WindigiPet. Hits the first turnout and shorts out.. Scared Reset - hits another turnout and it shorts out again. It turns out that the leading edge of the slider is shorting on the front axle - this has clearly been an old problem as I see that there is pitting on the front axle from the shorting. I had assumed it was rust, but it was clearly shorting on turnouts when it was run as a analogue loco.. I fixed this by placing some electrical insulation tape on the upper part of the leading edge of the front slider.

So here is the question. I measured the slider to be 5cm. Is this the same length as the one on the normal 3060 Santa Fe?

Here is the speed profile from WindigiPet. I think that the top speed of 243km/hr in reverse might be a tad too fast. What was the maximum speed of a Santa Fe?

The upgrade is not finished yet. Two new horns and a fuel tank are on their way from the USA and should get here next week. Smile
xxup attached the following image(s):
3060speedprofile.jpg
Adrian
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Offline jvuye  
#26 Posted : 22 October 2013 10:18:15(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
AHere is the speed profile from WindigiPet. I think that the top speed of 243km/hr in reverse might be a tad too fast. What was the maximum speed of a Santa Fe?


Hello Adrian
GM EMD F-units were delivered with various gearing depending on the RR company requirements and the service (freight or passenger)
Santa Fe had them re-geared several times through their careers, when they shifted them from one type of duties to the other.
These changes happened so many times that it would probably very hard to track and document all of them.
But, to keep things simple we'll say that in freight service they were geared to 75 MPH, in passenger prime service ( "The Chiefs") to 100 MPH
Does that answer the question?

Now for the pick up shoe:

All my F-7s have been outfitted with the 60 mm "asymmetrical" pick up. (after I observed exactly the same phenomenon as you did)
The hole for the little mounting screw is located 35 mm from one edge, 25 mm from the other
The long part goes towards the nose.
Should not bother you ever after!

Cheers


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline xxup  
#27 Posted : 22 October 2013 10:24:42(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
AHere is the speed profile from WindigiPet. I think that the top speed of 243km/hr in reverse might be a tad too fast. What was the maximum speed of a Santa Fe?


Hello Adrian
GM EMD F-units were delivered with various gearing depending on the RR company requirements and the service (freight or passenger)
Santa Fe had them re-geared several times through their careers, when they shifted them from one type of duties to the other.
These changes happened so many times that it would probably very hard to track and document all of them.
But, to keep things simple we'll say that in freight service they were geared to 75 MPH, in passenger prime service ( "The Chiefs") to 100 MPH
Does that answer the question?


Thanks - I will settle for 120 Km/hr..


Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Now for the pick up shoe:

All my F-7s have been outfitted with the 60 mm "asymmetrical" pick up. (after I observed exactly the same phenomenon as you did)
The hole for the little mounting screw is located 35 mm from one edge, 25 mm from the other
The long part goes towards the nose.
Should not bother you ever after!

Cheers




This is awesome information.. Do you have a part number for this part?.
Adrian
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Offline jvuye  
#28 Posted : 22 October 2013 11:11:56(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post


This is awesome information.. Do you have a part number for this part?.


Yes, the "old" number was 7185, must be something like 71850 today.

Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 22 October 2013 11:34:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Yes, the "old" number was 7185, must be something like 71850 today.
It's still 7185 (they keep the four digit numbers until they come with an improved version - so 71850 could become the Märklin whisper wiper number ...).
Five digit spare part numbers were extended to six digits when they introduced five digit ref. numbers for locos, coaches &c.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jvuye  
#30 Posted : 22 October 2013 13:32:01(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Yes, the "old" number was 7185, must be something like 71850 today.
It's still 7185 (they keep the four digit numbers until they come with an improved version - so 71850 could become the Märklin whisper wiper number ...).
Five digit spare part numbers were extended to six digits when they introduced five digit ref. numbers for locos, coaches &c.


Thanks Tom.
Since Dr. Eisenbahn retirement, I haven't followed the details too closely.RollEyes
Feels good to know BigGrin ThumpUp Wink that you are there to fill the blanks!

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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