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Offline Writhdar  
#1 Posted : 07 February 2009 17:24:53(UTC)
Writhdar


Joined: 19/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: Durango, Colorado
Can the k83 decoder properly handle M turnouts? Is the Viessman 5211 more suitable as has been suggested in an earlier thread?

https://www.marklin-user...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=8687

Will either work with "sluggish" M turnouts. As I started checking my old M turnouts (analog mode with 7072 control box), I noticed that some require a longer pulse or occasionally even a double pulse - I may not be able to avoid using these.

Can the k83 or 5211 pulse intensity and duration be adjusted?

Dan
Offline jannie  
#2 Posted : 07 February 2009 18:15:28(UTC)
jannie


Joined: 29/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi saw somewhere that the CAP value should be increased, to the biggest value possible that fit in the k83 casing. Haven't tried it though.

Jannie
Offline Gregor  
#3 Posted : 07 February 2009 18:25:46(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Hello Dan,

I use k83's to switch my M-turnouts, and all work fine. Some programs allow you to adjust the length of the pulse, I use 250 ms.
I have a separate booster feeding the k83's and k84's, so intensive train traffic does not disturb the switching. I found that when the k83's were connected to the same booster as the trains, sometimes the switching did not work.

An advantage of the Viessmann 5211 is that you can connect an external power supply, therefore not using the precious digital power of the layout.

Good luck,
Gregor
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#4 Posted : 07 February 2009 22:15:20(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Hello, the length of the pulse is not the issue, if I may say so. The output is on as long as you press the button. However, as said, the capacitator stores energy that is release in the beginning of that pulse; this give a strong push right in the beginning. The following current is much weaker, at lease with the k83. The Viessmann IS better if fed with DC (the "power module" is just a rectifier, including a strong capacitator. A k83 would need surgery to increase the value, but I think the Viessmann allows for external fix. BUt I have not checked; I can be wrong in details.

/Lars
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 07 February 2009 23:04:07(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
The Viessman 5211 is better.
1) They are cheaper, and,
2) can use external power for the switching. (you can therefore feed it with current of your choice)

The switch duration is a function of the digital controller such as the Intellibox. I don't think the 5211/k83 differ in their ability on the duration - it depends on the digital signal. I agree it is less important than the power actually used.

whatever you use, service the turnout mechanism before you install. Keep ballast out.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline perz  
#6 Posted : 07 February 2009 23:20:22(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
My experience is in line with what Lars says. It is a strong push in the beginning that is needed. I have built my own decoders and supply them with a strong 16 V DC supply. I can program the pulse width into the decoder (so that it turns off even if the button is pressed down continuously). I can set it in steps of 20 ms. The turnouts always switch even with the minimum setting (20 ms) but in real use I set a 300 ms pulse length.
Offline wa6ld  
#7 Posted : 08 February 2009 00:06:50(UTC)
wa6ld


Joined: 17/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 44
Location: San Francisco, CA
Dan,

I use the Viessmann 5211, Lenz LS150, and ESU Switchpilot, with an ESU ECOS. I have both C and M turnouts and have not had a problem switching any of them. You can program the pulse duration on the Lenz and switchpilot at the decoders themselves, but I just leave them at whatever the default is and use a 250ms setting from the ECOS. All three of the units will take power from an external transformer so you do not use up your expensive digital power. The viessmann works with Marklin digital addressing only. The Lenz will work with DCC addressing only, and the switchpilot will work with either one. I have found the Lenz LS150 is the most economical, because it controls 6 outputs instead of 4, but you must be able to send it DCC data. The main reason I have more Viessmann decoders than the others is; I could find them in stock when I needed them. The Lenz and ESU decoders were not in stock and there was no real time frame when they would be in stock, so I bought what I could get my hands on at the time.

Hope this information helps.

Bill
ECOS1 , MS1, 6021
Offline hwestl  
#8 Posted : 08 February 2009 19:22:29(UTC)
hwestl

Sweden   
Joined: 13/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: Ystad, Sweden
If you already have a K83, there is a tip from the swedish electronic guru Rutger Friberg in his first book about digital, to get a little more power to the K83. Put a electrolytic capacitor between the brown and the yellow output to your switch, with the plus-side connected to the brown. He suggests a 220 microF at 40V

Håkan
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hwestl
Offline Writhdar  
#9 Posted : 10 February 2009 05:18:19(UTC)
Writhdar


Joined: 19/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: Durango, Colorado
Thank you all for your advice and suggestions.

Dan
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