Pete, there is an article on the forum, written by Lars Westerland (a long time forum member), regarding block operation. Rather than me trying to give a befuddled answer, you might like to read it.

On the left hand forum menu, click on 'Operation Related', then 'Block Operation'

The current Marklin Signal book also has some good information on block operation.

Hi Pete.

I will see if I can find anything for you.

My own layout has a primitive block system that works OK and which could be easily adapted to fully automate a simpler layout. On my layout it is quite complex because of the multiple routes into and out of the station. You can find my circuits on my website.

One question. What type of signals will you be using? Colour light or semaphore? The principles are teh same but the circuitry could vary.

All the best,
Chris.

PS. I am still turning my room upside down. It's a lt tidier than it was!!!!

Hi Pete.

First the important stuff. No resent snow fall here. In fact we haven't had any since that initial fall before Christmas, but that only started melting yesterday so there is still plenty around. (This is almost unheard of in the last 30 years.) The real snow is on the east coast. Inverness has cancelled its Hogmanay street party and a couple of hundred passengers are stranded at Inverness airport.

Right. Recent Marklin signals are manufactured by Viessmann so it is worth comparing prices, especially from German suppliers. I bought a single arm semaphore from one eBay store with about £10 off (partly counterbalanced by additional postage). Also, if you feel that you can build them, you can get Viessmann signals from http://www1.conrad-uk.com/ at very reasonable prices.

Briefly:
o 89391 (Viessmann 4811, Conrad 212487-89) is the basic block signal used on lines away from stations. (I guess it can be used as a starter signal as well in conjunction with a shunting signal.)
o 89392 (4812, 212488-89) is an entry signal for a station or junction. The grn/yel indication limiting speed to 40km/h.
o 89393 (4813, 212489-89) is a starter signal. It combines the function of the entry signal with a shunting signal.

None of the above signals have a control function so have to be used in conjunction with a locking relay (Marklin 8945 or 8946 - often found on eBay). I use the former but there is a viable alternative (see https://www.marklin-user...t.aspx?g=posts&t=14184).

When it comes to the distant signals, each block signal and station entry signal *should* be protected by a distant signal 89390 (4810, 212486-89). This is difficult on a model railway due to the foreshortening of distances. I will have three on my layout, all just before the train disappears into a tunnel. Only one of them (on the branch) will be linked to an actual home signal. The distant signals have three indications Vr0, Vr1 and Vr2, though the latter can probably be ignored unless you want to be really authentic.

Now, I don't use colour light so I have locking sp-st relays built into each signal base which is very useful for block control. Also, the semaphore arm stays where you tell it to go once the current is off, whereas you have to supply continuous current to the colour light signals (which is where the relay switches come in). As I don't have colour light, I don't have circuit diagrams. However, Viessmann do. If you go to http://www.viessmann-mod...gr_nr=5&sprache_nr=2 you can download circuit diagrams etc. for each type of signal. They are not very clear but nearly all the info you need is there.

Signal protocols are described in Wolfgang Meyenberg's website at http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/s.htm . Takes a bit of time to work one's way round it all but it is well worth it.

Finally, One half of my room is now much tidier than it was, the other half will be a nightmare!!! At least I am getting rid of an awful lot of empty boxes.

With best wishes,
Chris.

Hi Pete.

Actually, it is a lot easier than it looks.

I am 99% certain that the Conrad stuff is Viessmann spares. How easy they are to put together I cannot say. I have four semaphores and they look terribly complicated. Colour light should be much easier as there are no moving parts. I'm not quite sure about the 7244. They are listed in the HO section of the catalogue and not the Z section and I don't know why. I will have a look at my signal book tomorrow and see if they are in there.

As far as I can see, the sequence for a station, including adjacent blocks would be:
<font face="Courier New]
89391=======89392=================89383=============89391
....89390---^...............................89390---^
block............ station road(s) starter........(equiv. adv start)
</font id="Courier New]
Note that the 89390s may be co-located with a block signal or after it depending on the length of the block.

I hope that make some sense - it is rather late for me.

Re boxes, yes please. Sort out details later.

And a happy new year. :o)
Chris

Hi Pete.

Exactly. But, as I said, once you understand part of it the rest comes quite easily.
Well, they are cheap enough to risk one. I assume that the LEDs are included. They are in the Semaphore kits.
Actually, I have had them working at far lower voltages but eventually went to the higher voltage because I was working with several devices switching at once.
I should have done a drawing.

The top line was supposed to show the stop/slow signals and the track, line 2 the rough positions of the distant signals and line 3 was a description. I was going to put it all in one line but it was too long.
(Editing your text slightly. Hp0 = stop, 1= go, 2=40kph.)

Hp0/Hp1 (89391) - used as stop/go (red/green) signals at the end of each block (however many there are) and would need a single relay - requires Vr0/Vr1 (from 89380).

89392 - used as entry signals into a station area (or junction) with Hp0/Hp1/Hp2 (stop, go, go slowly - red, green, green/amber) - would need 2 relays and is preceded by Vr0/Vr1/Vr2 (expect clear/stop,slow).

Hp0/Hp1/Hp2 as above + Hp00/Sh1 (89393) - used as an exit signal from a station area with the same as the 89392 but with the added Hp00 (train/loco halt, shunting not permitted) and Sh1 (train halt, shunting permitted). There is no semaphore equivqlint so I use separate shunting signals which are all just left at Sh0 permanently.

Shunting signal would be used to allow a loco to move forward, leaving its train behind, in order to run round the train of go to shed. It does not function in the same way as Hp0 as authority has to be given to proceed, juts as a train cannot leave the station until the all clear is given by, e.g., the guard.

89390 - used as a warning of the next signal status, so if it precedes the 89392 it would show the following:
Vr0 =&gt; Hp0
Vr1 =&gt; Hp1
Vr2 =&gt; Hp2
and similarly if the 89390 precedes the 89391 it should only show Vr0/Vr1.

That about sums it up.

BTW, you can download the signal book in English from http://www.lctm.info/Biblioteca/Libros/index.htm . I know it applies to HO but the basic principles are the same as HO analogue except
that the centre 'rail' becomes one of the running rails in Z.

Hope that helps. It's difficult to express in words.



Doesn't apply. I do not drink, but I did stay up till 0100 typing messages here. :o)

All the best,
Chris.

PS. Have a look at my latest trackplan. I will give you an idea of how it is all laid out but be aware that there are no approach distant signals.

Hi Pete.

There was a small omission in my explanation. EVERY stop/slow signal needs a distant signal so the starter signal would have a distant some point after the tracks have split in the station. I will have to look into this myself. I will update my track plan sometime later.

Yes, the 'home' and distant signals must be tied together electrically. They cannot be independent. Of course, with semaphore, in reality the home would be cleared before the distant (two separate levers in the signal box) and distant would be set before the home. That does not happen with colour light or, I suggest, on model railways.

All the best,
Chris.

PS. My not drinking is a faith related ordinance, but I never really drank much anyway. I was given a cup of cider by some carers when I was 8 and it was so disgusting that I didn't drink again until I was in my 20's. Never really enjoyed it tho'.

Sorry Pete. I used 'starter' in the UK sense of the word, i.e. the German's exit signal.

The fundamental difference between UK and German (DB) practice is that the UK uses route signalling whereas the Germans use speed signalling. It certainly makes for simpler signalling of German layouts. I mean, can you imagine the station entry semaphore collection at the entry to the right hand side of my layout - all four arms on one mast.

Your offer of an 89401 base is very kind and I wish to take you up on it. In fact G* were not interested in repairing them. I don't know if they would have got spares tho'. I'll contact you with address by email later today.

With best wishes,
Chris.

Here is an image, from the Marklin Signal Book. Hope it helps.
http://trains.manvell.or...ch/StationSignalling.jpg
Sorry it's just the link but it is large and probably better viewed separately.
Chris

Thanks Pete. Loo forward to getting them. Have to admit that my success in getting compensation from RM is 0/3. Always it is "Prove that that was what you posted." I've lost well over £100 as a result.

BTW, what part of the country are you posting from?

Chris.

Pete, I have a memory with more holes in it than a ... what are those things with lots of holes? Oh, yes, colanders ... when it comes to remembering names and places. Yes, I can remember it now - I think. Hope it's working OK, well, better that its ex-owner's brain!


Chris.

Can anyone link to this article?