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Deborail		#1 Posted : 26 October 2009 16:25:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Gents, i have a 21-pin connector type locomotive ordered, from trix, in this i can fix the 66839 digital decoder. Is this digital decoder used for enabling the movement of the loco by the mobile station, or is it for the lights only??. The loco in question is 22221 Br 218....Another loco is DCC ready. It means I can use the mobile station to move it independently, right? I don't understand what is the function of the 21-pin digital decoder and what are the limitations in a loco that only has a 21-pin connector as opposed to the DCC built in locos.
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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tekin65		#2 Posted : 26 October 2009 17:25:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Deborail <br />I don't understand what is the function of the 21-pin digital decoder and what are the limitations in a loco that only has a 21-pin connector as opposed to the DCC built in locos. George hi, They both are the same thing; "DCC ready" and "digital ready with 21 pin interface" practially saying the same thing in different ways: both means you need a decoder. The decoders you'll buy for any type of common HO interface (6 pin for Flm., 8 pin NEM, or 21 pin) will do the same thing. You can use them all with your Trix MS provided that they are DCC (or Selectrix, or both) decoders. Limitations in a loco that only has a 21-pin connector as opposed to the DCC built in locos will depend on the decoder you will put in the 21 pin connector loco. Hope this clears things a bit. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Deborail		#3 Posted : 05 November 2009 07:20:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Now I have a BR 218 and I have also ordered a 21-pin decoder, how do I fix the decoder inside the BR218???
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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Bigdaddynz		#4 Posted : 05 November 2009 07:31:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		Line up the pins and plug it in! The decoder will piggy back on top of the interface PCB. Check your decoder and locomotive instructions first, to see what specific information is given. BTW, checking the Trix catalog I purchased recently suggests 66839 is the correct decoder.
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Deborail		#5 Posted : 05 November 2009 08:10:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />Line up the pins and plug it in! The decoder will piggy back on top of the interface PCB. Check your decoder and locomotive instructions first, to see what specific information is given. BTW, checking the Trix catalog I purchased recently suggests 66839 is the correct decoder. Hi Bigg Daddy NZ... Yes it is the 66839. How does one do the piggy back thingy? I guess I have to unscrew the loco and open it, then what? There is no information in the loco instructions. When I open up the loco will there be a place to just insert it?? Or do I have to remove anything first?
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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Bigdaddynz		#6 Posted : 05 November 2009 08:27:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		I haven't done one myself yet (waiting for my 2 Trix Br44's to arrive), but it should be obvious where to plug the decoder in. Take the top of the loco off, you should see a 21 pin socket that will match up with the 21 pin plug on the decoder. The decoder will end up sitting on top of the interface PCB.
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Deborail		#7 Posted : 05 November 2009 08:29:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />I haven't done one myself yet (waiting for my 2 Trix Br44's to arrive), but it should be obvious where to plug the decoder in. Take the top of the loco off, you should see a 21 pin socket that will match up with the 21 pin plug on the decoder. The decoder will end up sitting on top of the interface PCB. Okay - will do that when it comes...What is the interface PCB??
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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tekin65		#8 Posted : 05 November 2009 08:36:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Deborail <br />Okay - will do that when it comes...What is the interface PCB?? George hi, The PCB is the little board where some electronic circuits drawn on. Now, this is what you are looking for (see the pins sticking out): With a great possibility there is something like this already plugged into the pins: Just pull it out and place the decoder over the pins and push down. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Deborail		#9 Posted : 05 November 2009 08:50:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Thanks Cem, I will try this....
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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Bigdaddynz		#10 Posted : 05 November 2009 09:04:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		The pins and the socket should be numbered, or at least pin 1 should be identified. You need to make sure that pin 1 on the decoder and pin 1 on the socket are lined up. Take note of the orientation of the terminator board that Cem shows in his 2nd picture before you pull it out. The decoder should plug in the same way. PCB = Printed Circuit Board, i.e. the Board that all the various components are soldered to.
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tekin65		#11 Posted : 05 November 2009 10:00:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		George hi, Take note of what David says about correct positioning; I wonder if the decoder have protection if inserted the wrong way ... most do. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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pa-pauls		#12 Posted : 05 November 2009 11:38:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 I wonder if the decoder have protection if inserted the wrong way ... No it does not !
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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tekin65		#13 Posted : 05 November 2009 11:44:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pa-pauls <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 I wonder if the decoder have protection if inserted the wrong way ... No it does not ! There you go ... be careful then [:0] Pal, it is quite strange; I wonder why they didn't add a simple protective circuit, many producers do [xx(] Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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DasBert33		#14 Posted : 05 November 2009 11:55:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,274		But it does have a key pin so in theory you can not plug it incorrectly.
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tekin65		#15 Posted : 05 November 2009 12:07:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33 <br />But it does have a key pin so in theory you can not plug it incorrectly. Oh, ok then. Hear that George? You cannot go wrong Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Bigdaddynz		#16 Posted : 05 November 2009 12:17:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33 <br />But it does have a key pin so in theory you can not plug it incorrectly. Thanks Bert, I wasn't sure about that, so didn't say. George, as Cem says, this means that the decoder should only go in one way.
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Deborail		#17 Posted : 05 November 2009 12:55:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Another question friends...what if i try to control this loco (trix 22221)by the trix mobile station before the 21 pin connector is inserted? Will it damage the loco? I have tried with a normal 12v dc transformer and the loco works nicely...
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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pa-pauls		#18 Posted : 05 November 2009 12:55:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33 <br />But it does have a key pin so in theory you can not plug it incorrectly. Yes you can ! I put in a LokSound decoder up-side-down once and it blow !
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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davemr		#19 Posted : 05 November 2009 13:07:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Yep. You can put in a decoder upside down. In my case it did not blow so was lucky. dave
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tekin65		#20 Posted : 05 November 2009 13:21:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Deborail <br />Another question friends...what if i try to control this loco (trix 22221)by the trix mobile station before the 21 pin connector is inserted? Will it damage the loco? I have tried with a normal 12v dc transformer and the loco works nicely... You cannot control an analog loco with a digital command unit. If you put it on rails it'll just run at full speed. I don't think it'll be damaged though. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Deborail		#21 Posted : 05 November 2009 13:41:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Deborail <br />Another question friends...what if i try to control this loco (trix 22221)by the trix mobile station before the 21 pin connector is inserted? Will it damage the loco? I have tried with a normal 12v dc transformer and the loco works nicely... You cannot control an analog loco with a digital command unit. If you put it on rails it'll just run at full speed. I don't think it'll be damaged though. So it means the 22221 loco is a completely analogue loco if there is no 21-pin connector. Cem.
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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Deborail		#22 Posted : 05 November 2009 13:43:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Deborail <br />Another question friends...what if i try to control this loco (trix 22221)by the trix mobile station before the 21 pin connector is inserted? Will it damage the loco? I have tried with a normal 12v dc transformer and the loco works nicely... You cannot control an analog loco with a digital command unit. If you put it on rails it'll just run at full speed. I don't think it'll be damaged though. Cem. That means the 22221 is analogue and it only becomes digital after a 21-pin connector is inserted....right?
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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tekin65		#23 Posted : 05 November 2009 16:51:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Hi George, Yes, that's right. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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DasBert33		#24 Posted : 05 November 2009 17:18:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,274		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pa-pauls Yes you can ! I put in a LokSound decoder up-side-down once and it blow ! IMHO if you plug it the way it is supposed to you can't plug it wrong. There is a hole missing on the decoder PCB where the keypin is. I agree that you can insert it wrong 'halfway' and that in that case the decoder might die, but when inserted properly (in the sense of mechanically properly so all pins make full contact and are equally deep in the socket ) it should only be possible in the correct way. Bert
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Goofy		#25 Posted : 05 November 2009 19:20:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pa-pauls <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65 I wonder if the decoder have protection if inserted the wrong way ... No it does not ! Yes it does!!! The only wrong functions are lighting not in function,if decoder is not correct inplug! In all decoder,there is always protection!
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Goofy		#26 Posted : 05 November 2009 19:23:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		Just read after locomotivs newsletters,about how to inplug decoder!
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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pa-pauls		#27 Posted : 05 November 2009 19:24:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy Yes it does!!! The only wrong functions are lighting not in function,if decoder is not correct inplug! Sorry Goofy but here you are wrong indeed ! read above
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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Goofy		#28 Posted : 05 November 2009 19:34:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		Not if you turn decoder 90 degrees!
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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pa-pauls		#29 Posted : 05 November 2009 19:51:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		What are you talking about Goofy Turn decoder 90 degrees ? We are talking here about the 21 pol type decoder and it is not possible to turn it and why should you ? But it is possible to mount it up side down as what you are supposed to do and then you'll have a problem
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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tekin65		#30 Posted : 05 November 2009 20:38:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Not if you turn decoder 90 degrees! Perpendicular [:0][:0][:0][:0][:0] Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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H0		#31 Posted : 05 November 2009 20:46:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Not if you turn decoder 90 degrees! 90° is not enough - you probably mean 180° ... Better turn it 360° and it'll fit again ...
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Goofy		#32 Posted : 05 November 2009 21:01:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		Oppsss... [:I] I mean 180 degrees.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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pa-pauls		#33 Posted : 05 November 2009 21:16:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Oppsss... [:I] I mean 180 degrees. Wrong again ! See my post above
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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Webmaster		#34 Posted : 05 November 2009 21:34:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		A Märklin (mfg ESU) 21-pin blows if you put it upside down and are unlucky - I've done it too. Not everyone are as lucky as Dave.
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Bigdaddynz		#35 Posted : 05 November 2009 21:49:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		The point here is, as I made in my previous post, make sure you get it the right way around the first time. Saves any problems later!
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tekin65		#36 Posted : 05 November 2009 21:53:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />... get it the right way around the first time. Saves any problems later! Isn't that so for everything we do; first marriage, first train set, first car ... ? Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Bigdaddynz		#37 Posted : 05 November 2009 21:55:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		Yup!
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TimR		#38 Posted : 05 November 2009 22:33:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster <br />A Märklin (mfg ESU) 21-pin blows if you put it upside down and are unlucky - I've done it too. Not everyone are as lucky as Dave. I've plugged these 21-pin decoders in and out a few times now - now I can't recall whether or not I actually pay attention to not put it up-side-down. But considering they're all running well, I think I got them right so far... Up till now, I do this almost purely by instinct - if it fits, then.... But I will pay more attention in the future, of course....
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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tekin65		#39 Posted : 05 November 2009 22:35:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR <br />... considering they're all running well, I think I got them right so far... Pure instinct, I say Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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pa-pauls		#40 Posted : 05 November 2009 22:47:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Regarding mounting of the 21 pol decoder. HAG, Märklin etc use the 21 pol decoder with the connector UP while for example Brawa use the 21 pol decoder with the connector DOWN ! Have a look at the latest LokPilot decoder manual on page 11 You can download it here : http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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Deborail		#41 Posted : 07 November 2009 09:25:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pa-pauls <br />Regarding mounting of the 21 pol decoder. HAG, Märklin etc use the 21 pol decoder with the connector UP while for example Brawa use the 21 pol decoder with the connector DOWN ! Have a look at the latest LokPilot decoder manual on page 11 You can download it here : http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/ Guys, you got me all worried now!![:0] Hope i fix it the right way.... Still it is in the post...
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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tekin65		#42 Posted : 07 November 2009 11:26:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		George, You can always take photos and post them here so someone can instruct you the right way. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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davemr		#43 Posted : 07 November 2009 12:50:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		George. Dont worry this is not difficult. All you are doing is matching up the holes with the pins and as you would in any plug and socket. If you can plug anything into a mains socket then you can plug in a decoder. dave
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Deborail		#44 Posted : 12 November 2009 09:51:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 819 Location: RAK		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />George. Dont worry this is not difficult. All you are doing is matching up the holes with the pins and as you would in any plug and socket. If you can plug anything into a mains socket then you can plug in a decoder. dave Yes i did it last night, however initially I too placed the decoder the wrong way up (or down)inside the BR 218, then when it seemed not right to me i changed it over...Luckily my wife is experienced in this because she worked in a electronics factory before....she immediately pointed out the error....
		George Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
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Bigdaddynz		#45 Posted : 12 November 2009 10:11:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		On my Trix Br44's the bottom row of pins on the MTC connector has one additional pin. The top row has 10, the bottom 11. You just need to make sure each lines up with the correct row.
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pa-pauls		#46 Posted : 12 November 2009 13:27:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Good to hear that George Yes David, if you line it up you should do it correct if you don't have it up-side-down then But if you always remember that Märklin/Trix has the connector facing UP you can't go wrong
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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Bigdaddynz		#47 Posted : 12 November 2009 15:57:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand		But of course Pål, since here where I am we are down under, then up-side down to you is right-side up to us.... So if I should fit it right-side up, I can see this becoming very confusing very quickly.....
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pa-pauls		#48 Posted : 12 November 2009 17:45:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		LOL Indeed my friend [:p]
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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