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john black		#151 Posted : 29 April 2009 14:47:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />This Pluta fellow does look more like Pluto everyday. Good one, Dave. Just look at Pluto's master and you know ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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davemr		#152 Posted : 29 April 2009 16:31:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi John. You are right about HAG and Brawa now coming to the fore with their products. I still like my CS2 though but the way Marklin have handled the problems with it is just not acceptable. The classic Marklins are without doubt still very desirable. Ray . The present CS2 should be available fully upgraded until the new version is available. While I see your point it means that Marklin will now not have a CS2 available for months. Roger. I like your set up and the S2 at an angle makes ot easier to use. Must try the mouse and keyboard and presume both can plug into my CS2. Dave
		davemr
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rene		#153 Posted : 29 April 2009 18:38:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 104 Location: st faustin, quebec		i am starting to have the feeling that there will be no update for the cs2 and we will be able to return the old one for the new version of course with extra $$$$ as a thank you for ouer support and thats what i feel more and more
		rene
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jeehring		#154 Posted : 29 April 2009 18:52:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		The date of avaibility of new reference xx214 has been officially published by Marklin or not ? (on Marklin website I haven't seen anything yet)
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RayF		#155 Posted : 29 April 2009 19:33:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr [ Ray . The present CS2 should be available fully upgraded until the new version is available. While I see your point it means that Marklin will now not have a CS2 available for months. Dave I think you guys might be missing the point. The present CS2 fully upgraded <u>is</u> the new version. They are only calling it a new number to differentiate it from the one that came without the DCC support. This is how I've understood this issue. The next batch of new CS2s will come out in a month or two, and that's probably when the upgrade for the old one will be available. There is nothing new about a product being temporarily unavailable. These things are usually produced in batches. When the next batch is produced, it will be available again.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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davemr		#156 Posted : 29 April 2009 21:39:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi Ray. I dont agree that firms leave their customers without a product. A loco is different as we have a large choice but with the controller anybody who now needs one will go elsewhere and Marklin loses business. The CS2 is a good product which should always be available. This is an expensive item and should have full support from Marklin. Try to tell a Marklin fan that they cant run their railway until Marklin decide to produce another batch and they will buy elsewhere rather than wait months watching a dead layout. Not everybody has several controllers including the 6021 and new people want the product now ... or will they go to two rail where there is a larger choice. As for the new CS2 being the same as the current model I would not be sure about that as nobody knows what the new model will be like until available or what new bugs it will have. I can only say again this is a great product let down by poor support. I understand the views of those using the 6021 as I have one myself which although not used I am sure works fine but then again it does not do much and also needs a keyboard plus memory and has no screen and cant be updated but for small layouts is ideal. If however it was sold now with starter sets I doubt the kids of today would be happy and Marklin must look to a new generation of customers. The only folk I know that are happy with the way Marklin have handled this are those who do not own a CS2 the rest of us enjoy what we have but are annoyed at the constant delay with the upgrade.
		davemr
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rbw993		#157 Posted : 30 April 2009 01:20:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,061		Dave(mr) You can hook up multiple devices to the USB port. I bought a simple USB hub that has one connector for the CS2 and then branches to three others for the keyboard, mouse and memory stick. I find the stylus is better for things like picking a loco from the list but wherever data entry is required tye keyboard and mouse are the way to go. Roger
		Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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supermoee		#158 Posted : 30 April 2009 03:02:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />Hi Ray. I dont agree that firms leave their customers without a product. A loco is different as we have a large choice but with the controller anybody who now needs one will go elsewhere and Marklin loses business. Hello Davemr, that the CS2 is not on stock at Märklin does not mean that an user cannot buy it. I have several trainshops near my home which have it on stock by themselves. Send me the money, I can buy at least 10pcs for you if you want. There is no business to lose from Märklin side. So please stop writing those things. If you want you can order here; http://www.spielwaren-stucki.ch/shop06/start.php they have it in stock. For sure if the shops have a full stock, they will not order it at Märklin and Märklin will not produce new batches without shop orders. When I read how people put here the statement about the date of the outcoming of the update I can only laugh. June? who said this? There will be 2 updates available in May. - one for free which is implementing new icons, new symbols, new functions (example S88 function or loclist) and debugging - one which will cost a fee, implementing furthermore full DCC implementation, incl. the switches comand, which will bring the 60213 to the performance of the 60214, which is coming out next september. This information is coming from the Märklin shop I linked above.So please stop with the wild speculations. It is nearly hurting reading them. Since we are speaking about lead times of updates. Does anyone have seen the ESU Upgrade of the CS1? it was promised for rnd of march, but no one got it until today. kind regards Stephan
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Bigdaddynz		#159 Posted : 30 April 2009 05:08:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Stephan, I thought ESU was waiting to see how the Ecos v3.0 update went before releasing the CS1 v3.0 update. Are you saying it has been released as of today?
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jeehring		#160 Posted : 30 April 2009 05:47:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Roger I like the way you installed your CS2 . Nice photo. Good example. Thank you
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davemr		#161 Posted : 30 April 2009 12:36:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi Stephan I would not be buying from a shop in Switzerland etc and paying more than I need to. My dealer does not have a CS2 and is unable to get one. As you will see above the June update information came from Marklin by email but clearly you have other information ... from where ? or has Marklin sent different dates to different people. Hopefully your dealer will sell all his 60213 before the 60214 is available. Roger. Many thanks for information. I will get a USB hub as you suggest.
		davemr
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jeehring		#162 Posted : 30 April 2009 13:22:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		"Information" privately received from Marklin should be considered with the context, I.E : suppose that 2 updates are planned , depending of the questions "what about DCC update" or " what about next update", someone in Marklin could give 2 different answers... Given problems of translation , as well...( the charm of this forum also is that we all come from different areas in the world...) The most reliable info really is the official info publically given on their website or by Marklin representatives on official stands... For my part , if I don't take into account last contributor's assessments , I understood updates have been postponed Q 2 , also due to the fact they will not treat "bugs" & improvements separately...(nothing more)
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hjmo08		#163 Posted : 30 April 2009 21:47:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/10/2008(UTC) Posts: 42 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Since we are speaking about lead times of updates. Does anyone have seen the ESU Upgrade of the CS1? it was promised for rnd of march, but no one got it until today. kind regards Stephan Have you forgot the lack of support related with CS1 by Marklin? For example, do you know that Marklin as removed the reference to CS1 on new locos instruction manuals...like for the 37052 loco? This is what really hurts.[B)] I think that ESU will do a great work and support those who payed for the CS1. The past is the learning phase to the future... Marklin is going to make the same mistake twice? For their good I hope not ...[:(!] Regards. Henrique
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davemr		#164 Posted : 30 April 2009 22:37:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Jeehring. What are the two updates that you mention. The only info I go by are emails from Marklin and I have not heard about two updates. I have an email from Marklin received a week ago saying the update will be May and Jonas has one saying June. These are the only facts that I know about and anything else I read here has no substance and is just the guess of the members. As far as I know there is nothing on Marklins website giving any information and the only way is to contact them and wait for a reply.
		davemr
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jeehring		#165 Posted : 30 April 2009 22:38:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Regarding the loco CS1 & CS2 work in a same way : is it about functions only ? Concerning Loco instructions manual, I don't see any practical reasons to separate them . Whatever they put , "1"or "2" ...the word "CS" is forthcoming
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jeehring		#166 Posted : 30 April 2009 22:45:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />Jeehring. What are the two updates that you mention. The only info I go by are emails from Marklin and I have not heard about two updates. That's only as an example at random. I wrote " I.E. " . You should read something like : "if" there were 2 updates...or " in case of..."... (it's only because of the limits of my English- Sorry)
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rene		#167 Posted : 01 May 2009 01:48:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 104 Location: st faustin, quebec		on stummis forum it there saying ordes from dealers for the 60213 are turned by marklin into the new 60214 so there not happy cause that will cost more $$$$$$ so whats marklin up to
		rene
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Bigdaddynz		#168 Posted : 01 May 2009 15:55:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by PeterG <br />However, it does mean that there is no high-end controller on the market at all for the next three months! I put in my order for a 60213 at ETS a fortnight ago, before the 60214 was announced, and now I've been left high and dry! Peter, this dealer has 3 CS2's for sale. I have bought a few things from him, and was impressed with his service. http://cgi.ebay.com/Maer..._trksidZp1713.m153.l1262
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PeterG		#169 Posted : 01 May 2009 16:31:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/07/2008(UTC) Posts: 156 Location: Sydney,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by PeterG <br />However, it does mean that there is no high-end controller on the market at all for the next three months! I put in my order for a 60213 at ETS a fortnight ago, before the 60214 was announced, and now I've been left high and dry! Peter, this dealer has 3 CS2's for sale. I have bought a few things from him, and was impressed with his service. http://cgi.ebay.com/Maer..._trksidZp1713.m153.l1262 Thanks for the link! Unfortunately, the price is just a little too high - ETS only wanted 529 for theirs since they deducted the European tax (a saving of roughly $170AUD). On top of the 629Euro I'd have to buy the transformer too... I'll have to think about it- Thanks again!
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davemr		#170 Posted : 01 May 2009 17:45:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Peter. Lokshop have them for 629euros and they will deduct tax from that. Postage has been reduced also.
		davemr
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Bigdaddynz		#171 Posted : 02 May 2009 02:19:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />Peter. Lokshop have them for 629euros and they will deduct tax from that. As will the BWBahn dealer. That makes the price 528.57 EUR plus postage.
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mvd71		#172 Posted : 02 May 2009 10:14:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,934 Location: Auckland,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Have you forgot the lack of support related with CS1 by Marklin? For example, do you know that Marklin as removed the reference to CS1 on new locos instruction manuals...like for the 37052 loco? This is what really hurts. I think that ESU will do a great work and support those who payed for the CS1. The past is the learning phase to the future... Marklin is going to make the same mistake twice? For their good I hope not ... Regards. Henrique I find it rather confusing that people sing the praises of ESU, and complain that Marklin did a terrible job in supporting the CS1. Do they not recall that ESU produced the CS1 in all its Glory, and ESU were responsible for the prompt fix of the few bugs it had? Yes Marklin did hold the overall responsibilty, but ESU failed to deliver to Marklin, and that is what made Marklin look bad on that product. Mike.
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Bigdaddynz		#173 Posted : 02 May 2009 10:32:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Well I don't know if it was ESU that failed.... Marklin and ESU were too busy fighting each other, to the overall detriment of the market and CS1. Someone should have gone in and banged their heads together and told them to sort it out!
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Bigdaddynz		#174 Posted : 02 May 2009 10:34:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jonas_sthlm <br />it will not include any DDC support That is completely at odds with what has been stated by Dr Tom Catherall, Marklin's Digital guru (I assume you mean DCC, not DDC).
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river6109		#175 Posted : 02 May 2009 12:23:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		ESU and Märklin had a legal battle on their hands. For instance, we had a case here in Western Australia, after 12 years, the liquidators of a bankrupt company has been successful in a court hearing and ruling for banks to return x millions to the liquidator. My point is there is not much you can do when legal procedures are in place. I would'nt blame or accuse any of them, who may be the culprit. The fact is CS 1 is now supported by ESU and CS 2 is managed by Märklin.
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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mvd71		#176 Posted : 02 May 2009 14:39:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,934 Location: Auckland,		My point is, that ESU were a part of the problem with the CS1, yet the comments I read about them now make me think that people believe ESU will be their saviour. But I just can't see what that notion is based on. Cheers.... Mike.
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river6109		#177 Posted : 02 May 2009 15:03:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mvd71 <br />My point is, that ESU were a part of the problem with the CS1, yet the comments I read about them now make me think that people believe ESU will be their saviour. But I just can't see what that notion is based on. Cheers.... Mike. there may have been restrictions on both sides to be able to have a free allowance of operation and implementation.
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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RayF		#178 Posted : 02 May 2009 16:03:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mvd71 <br />My point is, that ESU were a part of the problem with the CS1, yet the comments I read about them now make me think that people believe ESU will be their saviour. But I just can't see what that notion is based on. Cheers.... Mike. Mike I totally agree. All the evidence I have seen is that most of the problems with marklin products recently have been with ESU supplied parts. Shoddy build on MS, insufficiently developed CS1, sound decoders which do not last, etc. Even the restriction on using the old blue transformers is because the ESU decoders can't take the reversing pulse! I think ESU have caused a great loss of prestige to Marklin and its reputation. Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Bigdaddynz		#179 Posted : 02 May 2009 16:30:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		But ESU are not responsible for the current CS2 problems. And there do not seem to be any issues with the v3.0 Ecos update. On the other hand, who is the common denominator in all of this. A certain company who is now insolvent! Personally, I think Marklin is responsible for their own misfortunes. At the end of the day it is Marklin's name on the products, therefore it is Marklin's responsibility to ensure everything works properly and reliably. They cannot blame ESU!
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river6109		#180 Posted : 02 May 2009 17:22:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mvd71 <br />My point is, that ESU were a part of the problem with the CS1, yet the comments I read about them now make me think that people believe ESU will be their saviour. But I just can't see what that notion is based on. Cheers.... Mike. Mike I totally agree. All the evidence I have seen is that most of the problems with marklin products recently have been with ESU supplied parts. Shoddy build on MS, insufficiently developed CS1, sound decoders which do not last, etc. Even the restriction on using the old blue transformers is because the ESU decoders can't take the reversing pulse! I think ESU have caused a great loss of prestige to Marklin and its reputation. Ray I think you've got a relevant point by remarking on sound decoders and blue transformers. I have lost a few sound & pilot decoders with sudden faults appearing. But ESU would'nt be on their own to keep quite about faulty decoders, MS, CS, etc. etc. John
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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davemr		#181 Posted : 02 May 2009 17:52:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Ray & John. I agree about the ESU disasters. The MS was one of the worst Marklin products when almost all had to be returned. Then came the CS1 where a booster was not produced and updates are still continuing. Decoders also had problems with whole batches being returned by HAG as faulty. The fact that Marklin did not get on with ESU is not surprising and is no excuse for the poor workmanship from ESU. The CS2 has some minor faults but overall it is a good product and apart from an alphabet which is not quite correct appears to be fine. The exception is a few who downloaded an update before it was ready and that is certainly not good. Marklin has failed with communication regarding the CS2 update but their current problems have no doubt not helped. Marklin need a new decoder supplier and if the other manufacturers can also get one (Zimo,Uhlenbrock etc) then that will solve a lot of problems. If any firm goes bust then hopefully it is ESU and not Marklin. We dont buy ESU track or locos but we sure need them from Marklin. The facts speak for themselves with the poor quality of the MS but I appreciate that the old CS1 users like to support ESU ... my CS1 is still working but that screen really is poor. When we get a new MS2 it will be interesting to see if more than 50% have to be returned.
		davemr
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sudibarba		#182 Posted : 03 May 2009 01:52:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		I don't know about all of this ESU situation. I do know that I have had zero failures with 30 to 40 ESU Lokpilot 3.0 decoders. Eric
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Bigdaddynz		#183 Posted : 03 May 2009 02:13:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Well Dave, ESU did produce a booster for the CS1, albeit somewhate late. Marklin chose not to use it, probably because they were moving on to the CS2 development. However, that alienated a whole bunch of people who had bought CS1'S in good faith thinking that there would be a future roadmap for new products, only to have Mother Marklin suddenly turn around and effectively say "too bad, you have a buy a new controller, we ain't going to help you!" None of that is ESU's fault, but it sure has pis*ed a whole lot of Marklin customers off! Who can blame them if they buy the ESU v3.0 update for their CS1's and go the ESU route, cos Mother M ain't gonna help them anymore! Even to the point of threatening to invalidate warranty's if anyone hooks a CS2 up to a CS1 with the v3.0 CS1. Such behaviour is despicable in my book. Marklin it is your name on the product, it is your responsibility to honour the expectations of your customers who purchase your products in good faith. Not run away and hide behind a new product and disown your previous one. Who can blame anyone for being sceptical about Marklin's promises. Luis is a case in point! I don't blame him for wanting to dump his Marklin controllers and go the ESU path. I'm not saying ESU are perfect, clearly there have been some technical issues with some of their products. But they generally have delivered product when they said they would, and if there are delays they have said why.
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Sam		#184 Posted : 03 May 2009 02:59:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC) Posts: 799 Location: Phoenix, AZ		WIth this never arriving update issue, is it safe to assume there is no walk around or fix for the lack of icons / locomotive pictures in the current database? I gather the ability to add icons hasn't been added to the lastest verstion of 1.0.5? thanks, and reading/following this thread has given me angst about dropping $1000 into new Marklin hardware in the past week!.. I hope they make it!
		Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
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jeehring		#185 Posted : 03 May 2009 03:07:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br /> And there do not seem to be any issues with the v3.0 Ecos update. Very fortunately! After 3 years and half , since ECOS was on the market . Considering Ecos is a CS1 , let's say 4 years...
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Bigdaddynz		#186 Posted : 03 May 2009 04:21:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Or Roland, should that be, CS1 is an Ecos......??
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mvd71		#187 Posted : 03 May 2009 06:10:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,934 Location: Auckland,		Back to the CS2 update/replacement discussion. Has anybody heard of a firm date for delivery of the 60214? Cheers.... Mike.
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Bigdaddynz		#188 Posted : 03 May 2009 06:19:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Mike, check Steventrain's "Marklin 2009 Delivery Update" thread. The delivery date listed there is August.
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mvd71		#189 Posted : 03 May 2009 12:20:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,934 Location: Auckland,		Yep, checked it right after I posted here.
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davemr		#190 Posted : 03 May 2009 15:48:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi David. You are clearly happy with ESU and their products and that is fine by me as there are a few who do not like Marklin (even though they didnt make the stuff) My objection with Marklin is their support for the CS2 and lack of information whereas the unit itself is considerably better than the CS1. I understand that many will not want to spend the cash on the CS2 and therefore support the CS1 however most owners of the CS2 do prefer them and I have to say only Luis who has been very unlucky has a real case for going back to ESU. It would be good if the CS1 could be renamed ESU and thus ridding it from Marklin but M will have to honour claims for I expect the next couple of years. Hopefully this is a discussion and not an argument as from my point I can never trust ESU again after the MS failures and lack of a booster for the CS1. Also I dont really like any firm that hangs on the coat tails of the Loco manufacturers without whom they would not survive. I do hope you enjoy the CS1 as much as I like my CS2 but again would say that the support from Marklin is very poor.There is both good and bad with both units but as long as we both enjoy what we have that is the main thing. dave
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river6109		#191 Posted : 03 May 2009 16:12:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />Hi David. You are clearly happy with ESU and their products and that is fine by me as there are a few who do not like Marklin (even though they didnt make the stuff) My objection with Marklin is their support for the CS2 and lack of information whereas the unit itself is considerably better than the CS1. I understand that many will not want to spend the cash on the CS2 and therefore support the CS1 however most owners of the CS2 do prefer them and I have to say only Luis who has been very unlucky has a real case for going back to ESU. It would be good if the CS1 could be renamed ESU and thus ridding it from Marklin but M will have to honour claims for I expect the next couple of years. Hopefully this is a discussion and not an argument as from my point I can never trust ESU again after the MS failures and lack of a booster for the CS1. Also I dont really like any firm that hangs on the coat tails of the Loco manufacturers without whom they would not survive. I do hope you enjoy the CS1 as much as I like my CS2 but again would say that the support from Marklin is very poor.There is both good and bad with both units but as long as we both enjoy what we have that is the main thing. dave Dave, One more point I may add to this topic. At least ESU, has had free update versions right from the beginning . when looking at the CS 1 and the current update costs I would claim that Märklin right from the beginning did'nt make the CS1 an attractive option, although people got sucked into it. Furthermore, while everyone else opened up their protocol, Märklin, again decided to go on its own and introduce a closed mfx system. I don't know what happened between Märklin & ESU but one thing is sure, I rather buy comonents from a firm that produces it. Another point I like to make is the future of all decoders and the changes they will have in the near future. I'm still sitting on the sideline before deciding which CS I'm going to purchase and Zimo at the moment is going towards a more advanced system. So who is catching up with whom ? Except NRMA, we are only the pawns in the endresults. regards., John
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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davemr		#192 Posted : 03 May 2009 19:41:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi John. Good points although I think that Marklin did make the CS1 an attractive option but could not get a manufacturer to produce the goods. Many small firms make parts and accessories for Marklin but they dont sell direct to the public ehich is fine. I have used Zimo in the past and they have good stuff. There again do they make our locos and track etc ... so if they go bust it does not matter but Marklin we want to keep going and they need all the business they can get which is why I support them with all their products but if they do not come good with the CS2 update then they will not deserve my business just as ESU do not after the hopeless MS and selling their version of the CS1 which they made sure was better than the one they made for Marklin.
		davemr
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jeehring		#193 Posted : 03 May 2009 19:48:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		How the CS2 is including an integrated aid is a big step as a kind of support , already . Looking at the user-interface of CS2 & how clever it is , Marklin has made a real effort to produce a central station which is designed to be pleasant & very easy to use. I think we'll soon have those technical articles in Marklin Magazin too , as we had before about the Memory , the 6021 and whole Marklin-digital...
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Bigdaddynz		#194 Posted : 04 May 2009 05:17:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Well, the support for the CS1 from Marklin is pretty much non-existent, by that I mean in terms of boosters that we were promised, etc, not break/fixes. So, that is why I'm annoyed at Marklin, and forced, through no fault of mine, to go to ESU for these products, if I want to maintain my investment in the CS1. I don't have a problem with the CS2, I'm sure it is a great product (what I've seen of it looks great), but I don't have $1500+ NZD to be able to rush out and buy one. So, hence the reason for sticking with the CS1. I don't have a problem with the Ecos being 'fancier' than the CS1, I'd do the same if I was ESU. After all, they do need to have some point of difference.
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Bigdaddynz		#195 Posted : 04 May 2009 06:11:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br />How the CS2 is including an integrated aid is a big step as a kind of support , already . Looking at the user-interface of CS2 & how clever it is , Marklin has made a real effort to produce a central station which is designed to be pleasant & very easy to use. I think we'll soon have those technical articles in Marklin Magazin too ... Roland, these articles are already appearing in the MM. There have been some in the Digital Newsletter as well.
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davemr		#196 Posted : 04 May 2009 15:06:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi David. You are quite right about the cost of the CS2 which is why many will not buy it having already paid a lot for the CS1. If they had done some sort of trade in as gesture of goodwill thne they would have made a lot of happier customers. I bought my CS2 in place of this years club loco and some coaches and I think so far I made the right choice ....but if this update doesnt come then I will make it clear to Marklin what I think but I doubt they would reply. dave
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Bigdaddynz		#197 Posted : 04 May 2009 15:30:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		I guess if enough people like Luis voted with their feet, Marklin would soon notice. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, and hopefully the new update arrives soon, does what it is meant to do, fixes all the other issues, and makes all the CS2 owners happy. I guess I will get a CS2 one day, but as I have said in other threads, I'm in no hurry, even more so given the price is going up rather than down - the new 60214 is 750 EUR v 629 EUR for the 60213. Hopefully (that's a lot of hoping on my part!), Marklin will issue the CS2 in starter sets soon, so maybe then I could get one out of a broken up starter set.
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steventrain		#198 Posted : 04 May 2009 23:33:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,697 Location: United Kingdom		Update 4 May 2009 - Replay from Marklin. Dear Mr. ########, The next update shall be available in may. Plese excuse but our qualitiy department hasn´t given it´s okay to the next update yet. That´s the reason, why we cannot tell you an exact date for the next update. If this okay is here, the update will be available at once. Sincerely yours, Your Maerklin Customer Service
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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pa-pauls		#199 Posted : 05 May 2009 01:03:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Thank's for news Steven
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davemr		#200 Posted : 05 May 2009 01:33:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		David Kramm has the 60214 priced at 629 euros. The price mentioned by M will be there full price but Lok Shop and Kramm etc will sell at 629 unless they change before the unit is available.
		davemr
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