Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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I've just bought a 3004/TM800 on ebay in rough condition with a view to restoring it. However, I could do with some information:
Which pickup slider fits? I realise earlier examples had the old type of pickups for use with solid centre rail track, but I've seen a 3004 kitted out with a modern slider. As it will be running on my analog end to end C track layout it will need a slider.
Which traction tyres does it need? Guessing 50-odd years will have done for the old ones!
It will be getting a partial strip-down and a good clean in an ultrasonic cleaner. Partial as while I'll unbolt the motor and reverser I don't fancy disturbing the wheels with the inherent risk of messing up the quartering. Marklin don't include the exploded diagram for this loco on their site, hence my asking here. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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 Joined: 04/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 146 Location: Nordelta, Buenos Aires
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Dear Matt Please find in following links information about the 3004 spare parts.    Hope it helps, regards |
Alberto
era II + III + IV |
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 Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 633 Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
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Alberto,
Many thanks. The information related to pickup shoes is extremely useful.
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 Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Thanks Alberto - very helpful!
I may well be buying the parts from Eckert in a couple of weeks, as they seem to have fair prices and probably have all the parts I'll need. I won't be ordering anything until after the loco turns up however, as I have no idea whether it has the old pickup skates or the later slider. I can probably get traction tyres, brushes, and bulbs from them too. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 04/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 146 Location: Nordelta, Buenos Aires
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Matt
Please, keep us updated , it would be nice to know about your progress with the restoration work.
Regards |
Alberto
era II + III + IV |
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 Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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Quote:Originally posted by Darren Watalla<br />Looks like you need the 7174 pickup shoe. The only place I have found it was at http://stores.shop.ebay....-and-Parts__W0QQ_armrsZ1If you find another source please let me know. I ordered one for my #3024 and it worked great. Cheers... Darren Any US or Canadian internet dealer will have pickups, brushes and tires. Good prices are at rocousa.com but the shipping and handling and $25 minimum make Eckerts better if you only want one or two items. Eric
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 Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 764 Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
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i have just brought some bulbs from Eckerts. Very good service
regards
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Regards
Geoff (UK)
marklin HO from the 50's and 60's |
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,023
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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Hi All,
Is there a website for Eckert Engineering?
Cheers,
Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
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#Get Vaccinated
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"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Thanks again - I was thinking there must be a modern equivelent. That said, I'll probably have more luck ordering parts from Eckert than trying to get them here. I didn't realise the original tyres were plastic, but I'll be replacing them with the rubber ones assuming they need it. I'll try to get plenty of photos of the rebuild. I have rescued locos in similar condition before, like this Hornby Dublo Duchess of Montrose. Unfortunately I didn't get any shots of this one before I started work, but it was a £5 wreck which would be a fine runner with a new motor magnet:  I had to make a new drawbar for the tender, straighten the front end, make a new body securing bolt, straighten one smoke deflector, reattach a loose bit of valve gear, straighten the rods, replace a missing bolt holding the trailing truck on, manipulate dents out of the tender sides and spend some time touching up the paintwork. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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 Joined: 13/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 15 Location: ,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />Thanks Alberto - very helpful!
I may well be buying the parts from Eckert in a couple of weeks, as they seem to have fair prices and probably have all the parts I'll need. I won't be ordering anything until after the loco turns up however, as I have no idea whether it has the old pickup skates or the later slider. I can probably get traction tyres, brushes, and bulbs from them too.
I don't know the exchange rate £ -> $ but I still think this shop is cheaper. http://www.modellhobby.se/index...p?maincat=8&key=7174Shopping information in english is found at the bottom on this page. http://www.modellhobby.se/index.php?maincat=kundservice
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Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 633 Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by WelshMatt<br />Thanks again - I was thinking there must be a modern equivelent. That said, I'll probably have more luck ordering parts from Eckert than trying to get them here. I didn't realise the original tyres were plastic, but I'll be replacing them with the rubber ones assuming they need it. I'll try to get plenty of photos of the rebuild. I have rescued locos in similar condition before, like this Hornby Dublo Duchess of Montrose. Unfortunately I didn't get any shots of this one before I started work, but it was a £5 wreck which would be a fine runner with a new motor magnet: I had to make a new drawbar for the tender, straighten the front end, make a new body securing bolt, straighten one smoke deflector, reattach a loose bit of valve gear, straighten the rods, replace a missing bolt holding the trailing truck on, manipulate dents out of the tender sides and spend some time touching up the paintwork. Love this topic! |
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Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
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Hi Matt. In my TM800 I installed a replica of the original pickup shoe, that is different from modern ones. I bought it from TTN, you can see it here . It has a bigger costs (13 euros) but you have the original one. BTW, take a look at the complete list of spare part for TM800Pietro
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Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 655
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You may also want to contact Franz Nowack in Germany who carries a lot of spares for older model Maerklin and TRIX Express locomotives. He is extremely helpful and his prices are reasonable and very fast to send once order is received. He also accepts PayPal payment which makes life much easier for overseas transactions. He can be contacted Franz.Nowack at t.online.de
Hope this helps also. |
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),
Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Thanks Pietro - I think I'll be going for sympathetic modernisation on this one. It'll still be analogue, but with a new pickup slider and other parts.
Hope it turns up soon so I have something to post photos of! The Hornby Dublo loco was an example of previous restorations.
Does anyone know whether these locos had a matte, satin, or gloss finish? I plan to strip the bodyshell and then repaint it using the best match I can find in an aerosol can, but obviously I need to know which finish. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Ranjit
<br />Hi All,
Is there a website for Eckert Engineering?
Cheers,
Ranjit
If you click on the link in my original post on this thread you will be taken to Eckert's ebay store.  Darren
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Well, it's here:  and I've started work. First off, I dismantled the model and put the body and chassis through an ultrasonic cleaning bath. The body cleaned up nicely, but will still be getting paint stripped and resprayed in as close to the original shades as I can manage:  The chassis needed rather more work with WD40 and an old toothbrush to remove all the gunge. Shown here after the ultrasonic cleaner had removed the worst of the fluff and dust from it:  I've since removed all the rods, cleaned it up, reinstalled the motor and reverser, and got it running well on a test stand. I'll post another photo after I repaint the wheels, but with the addition of a slider it should be a fine runner. At the same time I plan to repaint the cylinders, clean and polish the rods, and reinstall them. This model uses gearing between the wheels, so the rods are just cosmetic. The couplings were somewhat mangled but responded well to careful straightening - top one here is "before":  Now, does anyone know what type of bulbs I need for the headlights? Unfortunately the diagrams posted earlier are too small to read part numbers. The brushes are fine, so I'm only planning to order a slider and bulbs to get it working. I've also been trying to work out how old the loco is - it had the older type pickups and a manual lever on the reverser (which is the three position type with a "neutral" between forward and reverse). There's no evidence of traction tyres ever having been fitted (no grooves in the wheels for them) and the loco has "TM800" cast onto the cab sides. My guesswork would be that it dates from between 1949 and 1956, as I know Marklin changed their M track from a solid centre rail to studs at around that time. Any ideas? |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 04/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 146 Location: Nordelta, Buenos Aires
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Alberto
era II + III + IV |
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Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 676 Location: Shoreline, WA
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Matt, I am no expert, but I think you have an early TM from '49 to '52 as it does not have traction tires. I have 2 TM 800's, one with the dull silver metal wheels, w/out traction tires (that looks like yours) and old fashioned slider and a later one with traction tires and the slider that Pietro posted. |
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Thanks Thom - just ordered the bulbs and slider for it so I should have something working within a week or two. The body is currently being paint stripped and will be resprayed in the original colours when I get hold of some suitable aerosols.
I've cleaned the rods up with wire wool (don't let this anywhere near motors as it'll play havoc with them - the rods were removed from the model for this!). This gives a neat finish - not too shiny but removes any corrosion or tarnishing without scratching the metal. Photos to follow when I have the wheels painted and the rods reinstalled. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 676 Location: Shoreline, WA
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Matt, when you get finished, you can help me with mine...For another restoration,and if you decide to change your mind and go digital, see link: http://www.eisenbahnclinic.com/got to Projects/then Marklin 3004/TM 800 Thanks for posting, so that I can follow your lead. |
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association |
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Joined: 04/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 146 Location: Nordelta, Buenos Aires
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Mattt
I believe you are doing a great job and also bulbs 60000 should be the right ones.
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Alberto
era II + III + IV |
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The digital/sound one was a great help when I was working out which loco was in the ebay listing - I could tell it wasn't a 3000 as it was obviously longer and had different domes on top of the boiler. If my reverser was broken I'd probably fit a 66032 decoder and keep the original motor, but as the mechanical side all seems to be working well I'm keeping it as original as I can apart from the slider in place of the old skates.
So far I've had to repair part of the reverser. These early types have a revolving drum to change direction with two wiper contacts which rest against it. These two wipers are attached to a piece of insulating material, which had fractured. A drop of superglue (CA) made an invisible repair, and it worked fine when tested with the manual lever. I'll test it with a proper transformer when I get the slider. I'll try to get a photo of the reverser if anyone needs to see how they should work. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Today's progress - the chassis is finished:  The original reverser turned out to be completely dead when tested - not even a twitch when I turned the control counterclockwise. I've replaced it with one left over from a digital conversion which works perfectly. I may put a 66032 decoder in at a later date as there's plenty of room for one. The wheels were hand-painted red, the cylinders sprayed black and varnished. The bodyshell has responded well to a dunk in paintstripper:  Next job (after getting hold of some red aerosol paint) will be to paint the shell red, then mask off the areas that should be red and spray the rest black. The bulbs and slider are on order. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 676 Location: Shoreline, WA
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Nice work Matt. The wheels & body shell look great. One thing that I have done with other old loks to clean the side rods of light rust & grime is to lightly polish them with the cotton buffing pads on the dremel. I do not know if this is a "proper restoration practice" and you do ruin the pads, but It has worked for me. Did you check out Wolfgangs site (the link in my last post)? He has done some crazy digital conversions to vintage Maerklin. |
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association |
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Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 633 Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
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Hi Matt,
It's a very nice work. I'm very interested in knowing the type of paint stripper you've used as I carry out some works similar to yours sometimes and so far I've never stripped paint down from a model.
Keep your progress posted, I like these kind of threads very much. |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Hi Brakepad, I just used "Nitromors" paint stripper (intended for use on woodwork and metalwork). Never apply it to any plastics as it will melt them into a horrible gooey mess!
It is somewhat nasty stuff - wear suitable gloves, long sleeves, and eye protection as it will burn skin and do serious damage to eyes. I wouldn't go anywhere near it if it didn't work so well on metal parts.
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Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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 Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Great job!
I am looking forward to see the finished product.
FYI, the original paintjob showed a range of finishes from satin to slightly shiny. This should give you confort that you have some latitude in that field! |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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I've done the bulk of the spraying on the bodyshell today, just need to touch the paint up in a few places. I hit a snag in that while I needed another coat for coverage I couldn't apply one for fear of covering the detail on areas that had received a good coating. I'll get some black paint and a brush, it won't show after I put a top coat of varnish on. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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 Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Update - the body paintwork is finished. Still awaiting the slider and new bulbs, hence the missing bulb holder from the front (I have the part, but won't refit it until I have the new bulbs):  It's just too shiny for the camera light meter to cope with I think! I used matt black car spray paint for this, although next time I'd use Citadel Miniatures "Chaos Black" aerosol as that seems to give thinner coats with better coverage. The shine is provided by a coat of gloss lacquer intended for car bodywork, which I would use again as it works very well.  |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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I clean my disassembled loks by immersing them in lighter fluid(napha)and swirling them around.I was taught to do this by Helmut Wilkniss and it always has worked very well.
I have always wondered about the ultra sonic cleaners though. What kind of fluid do you use in them? They must work well as you use one. Anything to expand on concerning how they work (not the sonic side but fluid, technique etc.)?
Thanks,
Eric
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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I just use warm water and a few drops of washing up liquid in mine. They won't remove really heavy gunge as you can see on the chassis (the first shot of it was after the ultrasound, but before I attacked it with an old toothbrush and more washing up liquid) but they are good for delicate parts that have a lot of dust on and can't be scrubbed, such as bodywork or fittings.
Mine has a variable timer, you just put the parts in, add water/washing up liquid, shut the lid, set how long you want it to run for and press go. When it turns off you simply unplug it, empty it, rinse the items with fresh water and rinse out the cleaner. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 676 Location: Shoreline, WA
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WelshMatt, I love the new paint. The red paint just pops!! Could you tell us what brand/model of ultrasonic cleaner you have? Thanks for these posts and keeping these classics alive. |
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Not sure it'll be much help to quote a brand, it came from Aldi (discount supermarket)! They seem to have their non-food items on a roughly yearly cycle.
There are probably better ultrasonic cleaners out there, but it wasn't expensive and does a good job for the money. Another good trick I've found involves a clean soft paintbrush and running water to chase the dirt out of the corners. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Some better photos, taken outside as it was sunny. The coach is the only vehicle I have of a similar age, although I do keep my eyes open on ebay UK for more suitable stock.   I still haven't decided what to do with this one. The reversing relay has that annoying problem where the loco jumps forward (almost its own length!) when you change direction, unless I can stop it doing that (any ideas?) it'll probably get a 66032 decoder at some point. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 633 Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
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Very nice, in particular when comparing the "before" and "after" pictures.
For your reversing relay, have you tried to stretch a bit the spring so it gets a little softer? From experience, usually motors which have a high current draw (like this one, I assume) needs "softer" springs while newer motors (i.e. DCM) work better with a springs a bit more rigid (as if they are not, they can change direction while moving at medium to high speed).
I would give that a try. |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Thanks - I'll try that when I have the slider and bulbs. The reverser came from a 3323 (SBB Re 4/4 IV) which also had one of those anti-jolt circuits, so that would make sense. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta
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Great job! It is amazing to see the before and after pictures and think it is the same loco.[:0]
Cheers...
Darren
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The slider and bulbs turned up this morning. The loco runs, but the reverser won't trip. I know I had to repair it after removing it from the 3323 and it looks as though this was not successful.
Not a problem however, as I've ordered a 66032 decoder. The old TM800 is going digital! |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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there is a website that offers a conversion kit (60904) for around 29 Euro not including the decoder.
this loco looks terrific. You've done an excellent job.
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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I think this one should behave pretty well with the Delta decoder. They seem to be better with older motor designs and heavier locos.
I'll have to get some springy brass or phosphor-bronze sheet and fabricate some new coupler centring springs, now it's going to be a shunter. I know you can buy replicas but to be honest it'll be easier and cheaper to make my own. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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The decoder arrived today and has been fitted. The 50 year old TM800 is now digital!  It runs amazingly well with the 66032 decoder, and is currently growling around the carpetbahn at a scale shunting speed. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 676 Location: Shoreline, WA
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Matt, it looks great. Was it an easy conversion to digital? I have two, so I could update one and leave the other original. |
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association |
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It wasn't too hard at all. A few pointers: If you're fitting a 66032/6080/etc then do not remove the wire linking one motor brush to the coil. The wiring diagram is not especially clear on this. You also need to solder the little capacitor across the two brush terminals as there wasn't one originally. The 66032 kit included a small panhead bolt which allows you to attach the holder to the same hole in the chassis used by the original reverser unit. The best way to get a ground connection is by bending the little brass tab from the kit flat and securing it between the decoder holder and the chassis (by putting the bolt through it), then soldering the ground wire to it. Strip out all the original wiring (apart from the link mentioned earlier). It makes it much easier to work out what you're doing. The coil on these had two long loose ends of wire, which were connected to the original reverser. I wrapped them around the holes in the coil insulator to form a solid wire "pad" to solder the decoder wires to. I realise that it would be far better with a 6090x kit, but they are well out of my budget and the older decoder seems pretty decent in this. Edit, I just had the bodyshell off to add a few drops of oil here and there (it runs a lot cooler now), so I took a couple of photos of the innards:   Set to address 40, as that allows my 6022 to control it while the 6035 handles something else. |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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