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How to clean old solenoid signals and turnouts (points)
Joined: 31/10/2023(UTC) Posts: 34 Location: Victoria, Melbourne
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In trying to resurrect my old analog train set (and ultimately convert the thing to digital) I have found that the 50+ years of inactivity has not treated the solenoids in my signals and points well. Therefore I'm wanting to find the correct/best way to ease up the operations of the solenoids - they try to move a bit but stick, using my finger to assist the movement helps and they complete their operation. If it matters (i.e. if the solenoids used in various components differ) then the parts are: - signals - 7188 - points - 5202 Suggestions please? (Again if it matters I'm in Australia so local or generic product recommendations prefered.) Susan
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 1 user liked this useful post by Aussie Susan
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Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC) Posts: 705 Location: Finland
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Hi Susan, I have used electronic cleaner spray from various brands. CRC is surely available at auto spareparts shops.  Cheers Åke
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 2 users liked this useful post by Br502362
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Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 733 Location: England, Suffolk
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spray and test, until satysfied
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 1 user liked this useful post by ocram63_uk
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,580 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Susan The old Märklin solenoid accessories do not need ANY oil except a tiny drop in the rods and levers on semaphores. The inside of the sonénoid is made of a metallic guide (nickelled "U"-shaped guide) in which a nylon core slides. So any oil residue may bring friction rather than any good. Usually, when there are operation issues on these, they are cause by previous overheating of the solenoid which causes the inside guide (the U-shaped one and the last top of the U to become narrower and bring friction. Alas for these there is little you can do. Avoid overheating
Jean
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 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 28/01/2024(UTC) Posts: 61 Location: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Aachen
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Polishing the before mentioned metal guide and thus removing oil residue and dirt / dust can help. I found that carefully filing the inside of the coils' plastic housing with a small flat gold smith / clock makers file may help reducing friction caused by melting due to overheating. Though excessive overheating may have distorted the housing beyond repair. |
Regards,
Rüdiger (Rudi)
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 1 user liked this useful post by RudiC
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,963 Location: Michigan, Troy
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When cleaning electrical/electronic contacts and parts with plastic, use the plastic safe Deoxit spray-lube. Available from Amazon, etc.
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Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 434 Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
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Martin has a good tutorial on the topic, see below: |
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1 |
 7 users liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
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Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 129 Location: Seattle area
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Hi Susan, I'll second the reference to Martin's video; the solenoids are essentially the same on turnouts and signals so cleaning the inner parts can improve both. Both are somewhat fragile but with care can be disassembled, cleaned and reassembled (take care to not break wires' connections!). I'll also second the use of a residue-free electrical cleaner such as CRC. Avoid any that have a lubricating additive imo because it will eventually dry out and/or attract dirt. I've cleaned many of the 5202 and similar turnouts, and many of the old analog signals with great success as long as they haven't overheated and warped. I never lubricate the sliders with anything after cleaning.
Martin doesn't cover the signals, so assuring the cleanliness of the contacts on the slider for using the block controls of the signals is also critical (they're on the exposed end of the slider). After cleaning with CRC, I give them a gentle rub or scrape to remove oxidation on the contacts. I also (reluctantly) give them a gentle reshape if they don't maintain contact properly. Sometimes it takes some trial and error to get it right; a multimeter to check electrical continuity is a big help before reassembly! I use the signals for analog block control of the center rail and the catenary with great results.
I hope this helps. Good luck! Brian
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 1 user liked this useful post by ccranium
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,603 Location: Australia
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Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
 2 users liked this useful post by xxup
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Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: USA
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I used 'sledgehammer' approach on about 80 solenoid M switches and vintage signals (they got wet/damp). Sprayed WD40 inside solenoid sleeve instead of taking unit apart. Used paper towel to removed excess. All work well again, incl multi-solenoid (2 arm) signals. No residue issues. I also tested silicone spray, but with limited success. First try on one unit to test impact. Ben |
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 1 user liked this useful post by BenP
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Joined: 31/10/2023(UTC) Posts: 34 Location: Victoria, Melbourne
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Thank you everyone for the responses. @martti - I did actually find that video quite some time after I made the post and it supports some of the other comments about cleaning inside the solenoid. Therefore That is my next step. While the video talks about the 5202 points, I assume the same applies to the 7188 signals? As far as I can tell with the points, it is only the sliding part inside the solenoid that is sticking - at least on the points that I've tried so far the track mechanism is moving nicely. @xxup - I'll look for the contact cleaner. While the lights on the 7188 I've tested are working, I want to make sure that the plugs at the back are also working and it will not hurt to make sure every one of the contacts is clean. Susan
PS: I was going to ask how to get the solenoid out of the signal I've been using for my testing but I've worked it out. I took out the slider from the solenoid and it is really dirty which probably explains at leat part of my problem.
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Joined: 31/10/2023(UTC) Posts: 34 Location: Victoria, Melbourne
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Two steps forward and one step back with the signal. I've taken out the solenoid and cleaned the inside of the tube and also the slider. My problem is that the slider is only going about half way either from the 'red' to the green or the other way around. (To be clear, if the slider starts on the 'red' side and the 'green' wire is energised then it travels half way to the green side and stops. If the 'red' wire is then energised the slider moves all the way back to the 'red' position. If I start in the 'green' side then energising the 'red' wire moves half way and then energising the 'green' wire the slider moves all the way back to the 'green' position.) There is a lever that is moved by the slider that also connects the power to the red and green bulbs - see photo:  If I move that lever out of the way then the slider travels the full distance but with the lever in place the travel is restricted. I've read that products such as WD40 are bad for these parts, and also I've not yet bought the contact cleaner suggested by @xxup, so I'm looking for suggestions about 'safe' ways to free up the movement of the lever? Susan
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 1 user liked this useful post by Aussie Susan
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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 695 Location: England, South Coast
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I'm a believer in lighter fluid and plenty of exercise.
I've had signals where that lever impedes the travel of the shaft. Lubrication may not help much. In one case the lever itself was slightly bent which made it too stiff to travel smoothly. In another the mounting of the lever was slightly bent which made it jam when half way.
It is a fiddly thing that seems to work best when the motion is sloppier than you think it should be!
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 2 users liked this useful post by Michael4
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Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 129 Location: Seattle area
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"If I move that lever out of the way then the slider travels the full distance but with the lever in place the travel is restricted." So the double solenoid is good. Congrats!
As a temporary "fix you could put a small drop of oil on the axle of the lever, work it a while, and then see if the slider travels full length with the lever engaged. That would at least show if the lever is aligned correctly. Then when you get a contact cleaner you can clean all the old gunk and the new lubricant out of the lever's axle and it "should" work like new.
If the oil didn't help, then carefully looking for ways to realign the lever might work.
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 1 user liked this useful post by ccranium
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Joined: 31/10/2023(UTC) Posts: 34 Location: Victoria, Melbourne
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Thanks everyone. Small personal setback so I'll be getting on to this shortly.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Aussie Susan
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 789 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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Hello Susan, The 7188 is about the easiest signal to rebuild. How many volts a.c. are you using to test? Are you using a.c.? With LOTS of patients they can be tuned to work @ 12vac. Some tips: Remove the plastic plunger from the coils. Clean all gook with lighter fluid. Using a flat surface and #600 wet or dry hold the plunger against the paper and GO! Do both sides. Then go to #1000 and repeat. You will be able to observe high spots on the brass contact sheet which is crimped round the plunger. The smoother and flatter you can make the brass; the less resistance there will be when it drags across the sprung contacts. Before reassembly I like to "wax" the plunger using a minute touch of Dielectric Grease. Rub off all excess. It must be dry. It kind of works like Armorall on your motorcycle seat.
Mikey
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I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
 2 users liked this useful post by analogmike
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Joined: 31/10/2023(UTC) Posts: 34 Location: Victoria, Melbourne
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OK - The current situation is that the signal (7188) is now working well so I think I have enough understanding for the others - you'll hear back from me if this is not the case. Therefore I've moved on to the points (5202). With the one I'm dealing with now, the solenoid itself is moving freely and the issue seems to be with the 'knob' that allows for the manual setting onf the point. (see image)  If I take this off then everything works but with the knob in place, it gets stuck going one way (the other way works). Therefore the question is: is there anything I should NOT use to try to free up the movement at the top of the knob? I was thinking of graphite powder or WD40 but I'm open to suggestions. Susan
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 1 user liked this useful post by Aussie Susan
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 789 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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Looks like you got the "lantern" on wrong. You gotta hook the little finger (opposite the screw side) into the square hole. Then, bring it down and pick up the solonoid rod. Then, put the screw. All this whilst keeping the bulb in the lantern assy. If it goes on real easy, You're probably doin' it wrong. USE NO OIL Mikey |
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
 2 users liked this useful post by analogmike
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,509 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Aussie Susan  I was thinking of graphite powder or WD40 but I'm open to suggestions. Susan
I would certainly use a minimum amount of WD40 on the rusty pivot at the top of the lantern, and work it back and forth to work the rust out. Maybe give it a wash with some isopropyl alcohol afterwards to remove any excess WD40 and rust 'grains'. Oncew the lantern will rotate easily then reassemble onto the point as per Mikeys instructions.
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 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 31/10/2023(UTC) Posts: 34 Location: Victoria, Melbourne
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@analogmike - thanks for pointing out my last assembly mistake. I've corrected it but the problem remains. Also thanks - 'lantern' is a MUCH better term than 'knob'! @kiwiAlan - I'll give that a try. Susan
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 789 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
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Joined: 31/10/2023(UTC) Posts: 34 Location: Victoria, Melbourne
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@analogmike - thank you once again. (Side note: I love the way different countries use different names for the same thing: points - switches - turnouts (and probably others!!!). Go to love English!)
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How to clean old solenoid signals and turnouts (points)
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