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Offline Rocca  
#1 Posted : 10 April 2025 21:20:15(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 632
Dear Märklin Friends,

I have put back into operation, improving it quite a bit, a Z scale layout. It measures now 152 x 50 cm. I ask for your help in fixing the tracks to the board. In my previous experiment, I had used Märklin nails, but, in this last case, I realize that the plywood is too hard and the Märklin nails do not enter at all and bend. How can I overcome this problem? What do you suggest as an alternative?
Many thanks for your help.
P.S.: Before the special nails appeared in the catalog, what was used?
Best regards
Stefano Rocca
Offline ciderglider  
#2 Posted : 10 April 2025 21:47:30(UTC)
ciderglider

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 66
Location: Leicestershire
I can't speak from experience, but I think it is common to glue Cork to the baseboard, then nail the track to the cork. There is an article about this is in a recent edition of Trainini.

Edited by user 11 April 2025 19:24:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Rocca  
#3 Posted : 10 April 2025 22:30:11(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 632

That makes a lot of sense...thanks....do you have, please, any reference about the Trainini magazine, please?
Best regards
Stefano

Originally Posted by: ciderglider Go to Quoted Post
I can't speak from experience, but I think it is common to glue Cork to the baseboard, then nail the track to the cork. There is an article about this is in a recent edition of Training.


Offline Zme  
#4 Posted : 10 April 2025 23:25:31(UTC)
Zme

United States   
Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 842
Location: West Texas
Hello. Hope all is well.

Some affix a dense foam board over the wood base then use the cork roadbed.

If the track has its own ballast it makes it easier.

If track is affixed directly to the board the rail noise is much louder. Some like this, some don’t. Using the foam over the wood will tend to dampen the noise a bit.

You may do what you wish. Either method will work.

Take good care

Zme
Offline ciderglider  
#5 Posted : 11 April 2025 00:13:56(UTC)
ciderglider

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 66
Location: Leicestershire
In this Small Scale forum there is a thread called Latest Trainini Update. This gives links to a PDF of each edition of Training. The one with the article about baseboard construction and track laying is August 3024.

Edited by user 11 April 2025 19:24:40(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Carim  
#6 Posted : 11 April 2025 09:58:16(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 681
Location: London
I use the Peco track pins (I think that they are thinner than the Märklin ones) and I just pre-drill a small pilot hole first regardless whether I am using cork or laying the track directly on plywood. I think that the odd bent track pin is just one of the joys/frustrations of railway modelling. BigGrin

Carim
Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 11 April 2025 11:52:51(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,447
Location: Scotland
Woodland Scenics on top of the wood then a touch of Copydex glue ever foot or so. Copydex if only used sparingly can mean you can still lift part of the track if required.. Used this for years with C track. Nails can just transmit sound and anyway make it more difficult to lift or replace track parts. Woodland Scenic is expensive but well worth the cost and it lasts forever.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#8 Posted : 11 April 2025 13:19:45(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,865
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, but ballasting track more or less eliminates easy removal.
Offline David Dewar  
#9 Posted : 11 April 2025 14:55:49(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,447
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, but ballasting track more or less eliminates easy removal.


Using my suggestion above does not require ballast. The Woodland mats are pretty good as ballast and deaden all sound. Just a touck of copydex holds the track in place .

I use this with C track and can lift turnouts etc to check and clean motors or add contact tracks. For me screws and nails are not the way but of course the will work.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Carim  
#10 Posted : 11 April 2025 15:40:21(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 681
Location: London
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
The Woodland mats are pretty good


Are you referring to their "Track-Bed Super Sheets"?

Noch also make rolls of ballast covered paper (e.g. 00081) - you just cut them to shape, glue them onto the baseboard and then lay the track on top of the ballast paper.

I have found that with Z gauge, most of the noise comes from engines with the old 3 or 5-pole motors. The sound from the actual train travelling on the tracks is relatively quiet even if you don't have any underlay.
Online JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 11 April 2025 16:15:18(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,550
Location: Paris, France

Hi Stefano
I think the best way is to use the Merkur Styroplast bed system.

It take only a minimal amount of time to glue the bed onto the plywood but then you have a silent bed, NOT REQUIRING any additional screwing / nailing of the track.
Changing the layout is a piece of cake WITHOUT damaging the track.
https://www.merkur-styroplast.de...sbett-Zubehoer:::46.html

I have used it on my N gauge layout and it was excellent (not the cheapest but excellent)
Cheers
Jean

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Offline David Dewar  
#12 Posted : 11 April 2025 17:21:37(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,447
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Hi Stefano
I think the best way is to use the Merkur Styroplast bed system.

It take only a minimal amount of time to glue the bed onto the plywood but then you have a silent bed, NOT REQUIRING any additional screwing / nailing of the track.
Changing the layout is a piece of cake WITHOUT damaging the track.
https://www.merkur-styroplast.de...sbett-Zubehoer:::46.html

I have used it on my N gauge layout and it was excellent (not the cheapest but excellent)
Cheers
Jean



Hi Jean Looks like that is similar to the Woodland bed. I agree it is not necessary to nail track down as I from time to time change track parts or add a circuit track etc and you dont want nails or screws. I am only using C Track so cant really speak for Z track but dont see a difference regading the base board and a silent bed.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline ciderglider  
#13 Posted : 11 April 2025 19:19:38(UTC)
ciderglider

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 66
Location: Leicestershire
Re the Merkur underlay, the Z product line seems to have been discontinued. Happy to be convinced otherwise.
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#14 Posted : 11 April 2025 21:10:13(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 581
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Dear Märklin Friends,

I ask for your help in fixing the tracks to the board. In my previous experiment, I had used Märklin nails, but, in this last case, I realize that the plywood is too hard and the Märklin nails do not enter at all and bend. How can I overcome this problem? What do you suggest as an alternative?


I have used Evo Impact adhesive for my latest layout - the great thing about it being that it "grabs" pretty much immediately. You do have to work quickly and accurately, but there is no hanging around waiting for the glue to dry as there is with PVA, for example.

Hope this is helpful


Chris
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Offline Rocca  
#15 Posted : 12 April 2025 09:17:22(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 632
Dear Chris,
Thanks for the suggestion. Do you mean that? https://www.amazon.it/St...id=1744441750&sr=8-1

But, what about, if I need to do solve some problem in the layout? is it easy to make some changes on the tracks or not?
Thanks
Best regards
Stefano Rocca

Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Dear Märklin Friends,

I ask for your help in fixing the tracks to the board. In my previous experiment, I had used Märklin nails, but, in this last case, I realize that the plywood is too hard and the Märklin nails do not enter at all and bend. How can I overcome this problem? What do you suggest as an alternative?


I have used Evo Impact adhesive for my latest layout - the great thing about it being that it "grabs" pretty much immediately. You do have to work quickly and accurately, but there is no hanging around waiting for the glue to dry as there is with PVA, for example.

Hope this is helpful


Chris


Offline Rocca  
#16 Posted : 12 April 2025 09:21:41(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 632
Dear Jean,

Apparently, as ciderglider has noticed, the Merkur is dismissing the Z production....what a shame, really!!!
your help is always so usefull and priceless.
Best regards!
Stefano Rocca

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Hi Stefano
I think the best way is to use the Merkur Styroplast bed system.

It take only a minimal amount of time to glue the bed onto the plywood but then you have a silent bed, NOT REQUIRING any additional screwing / nailing of the track.
Changing the layout is a piece of cake WITHOUT damaging the track.
https://www.merkur-styroplast.de...sbett-Zubehoer:::46.html

I have used it on my N gauge layout and it was excellent (not the cheapest but excellent)
Cheers
Jean



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Online JohnjeanB  
#17 Posted : 12 April 2025 11:08:26(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,550
Location: Paris, France
Hi Stefano
Sorry I should have checked if the product was still available.
Cheers
Jean
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Offline hennabm  
#18 Posted : 12 April 2025 11:57:59(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,073
Location: Edinburgh,
That’s not good news.

I’ve used Merkur on my Z layout throughout and it was easy to use, for me.

I do have a little left over but not enough to do a layout again.

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#19 Posted : 12 April 2025 13:11:43(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 581
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Dear Chris,
Thanks for the suggestion. Do you mean that? https://www.amazon.it/St...id=1744441750&sr=8-1

But, what about, if I need to do solve some problem in the layout? is it easy to make some changes on the tracks or not?
Thanks
Best regards
Stefano Rocca



Hi Stefano,

Yes, that's the stuff.

This is odd glue in that you apply it to both surfaces, let it dry and then assemble. When laying track, I normally put a sheet of paper between the track and baseboard, peeling it back as I lay the track. The means you only commit to a few cm at a time and have time to make adjustments if you need to.

I've never really had cause to remove fully dried stuck down track. I think it is possible but also quite hard work. For the record, most of my experience has been with flexible track where the instant grab is really helpful.

Hope this is helpful


Ciao!

Edited by user 13 April 2025 00:10:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Chas  
#20 Posted : 14 April 2025 18:28:13(UTC)
Chas

United Kingdom   
Joined: 08/01/2023(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: England, Pevensey
Screws, pan head between the sleepers, you can get small enough in height of pan with the length and width to pull down between the ties but over them, on ebay, about 10p for 50, No damage to the track if you do not wish to ballast over the sleepers.
Easy to change layouts. Just an idea that works for me, 3, different lay outs a year, same track.
Chas
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Offline Manga  
#21 Posted : 16 April 2025 14:13:27(UTC)
Manga

Australia   
Joined: 22/07/2022(UTC)
Posts: 62
Location: New South Wales, Sydney
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
I had used Märklin nails, but, in this last case, I realize that the plywood is too hard and the Märklin nails do not enter at all and bend. How can I overcome this problem? What do you suggest as an alternative?


Yes, plywood is a hardwood and those tiny nails are a problem to get into...but not impossible BigGrin

I have had said frustrations with bent nails and have now resorted to making a tiny pilot hole with the sharp end of tweezers so that the nail has a direction to go down into.

Then *gently* tap nail with whatever micro-sized hammering device you have, but be gentle and persistent. It will eventually go through.

Remember it's not a regular nail that you hammer, but a tiny tack that needs persuasion with many gentle frequent taps.

Z-scale really is akin to micro-surgery...why did I ever start in this scale ? Mellow

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Offline Rocca  
#22 Posted : 27 April 2025 17:38:57(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 632
Dear Märklin friends,

I'm glad letting you know that now the issue is solved. I've added between the orginal plywood and the tracks an 8mm. wood sheet, in which the tracks can be fixed easily....so all is fine now.
Thanks to everybody for the suggestions!
Best regards
Stefano Rocca
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