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Digitally operated turnouts / switches - Stopped working under digital control
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Offline osoraku  
#1 Posted : 16 March 2025 16:52:36(UTC)
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osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Setubal, Palmela
Dear All -

I have two Märklin C track turnouts 24611 & 24612 with factory-installed turnout mechanisms (74491). Both are programmed to operate under DCC by the DIP switches. These have worked fine under digital control with an MS2 controller and a 60116 Gleisbox, and with Rocrail for months (since setting up the track layout).

They recently stopped working for no apparent reason. I had not switched either of the turnouts for a few days, and when I tried to operate them digitally they would not respond. Mechanically they are fine - they freely switch directions manually with no apparent mechanical resistance to touch. Now neither the MS2 nor Rocrail can operate them.

I put a CAN packet sniffer into the transmission path between the Rocrail and the Gleisbox. The command to switch directions is sent; the Gleisbox acknowledges the command; and the DCC agent in the turnout/switch also responds to acknowledge the command. This shows that the switch is responding to DCC communication on the rails, but it is simply not budging from its position.

There is no movement on either switch.

If anybody has similar experience with making the turnouts work again, please share it.

Osoraku
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Offline Johnvr  
#2 Posted : 16 March 2025 17:45:51(UTC)
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Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,291
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hello Osoraku

The most likely cause is that the micro switch inside the solenoid mechanism has failed.

The micro switch is there to protect against prolonged activation when used in an analog mode.
For example, if a locomotive gets stuck on a section of track where the activator is triggered.

The common solution when using digital operation is to bypass the micro switch.
There are various articles on how to do this, which you can locate in this forum.

Essentially, you need to open up the solenoid mechanism, and solder a wire across each of the two micro switches.
You need to be able to operate a soldering iron in order to do this.


Fixing Turnout Solenoid Mechanism

Regards
John
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Offline osoraku  
#3 Posted : 16 March 2025 19:46:55(UTC)
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osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Setubal, Palmela
Dear John -

Many thanks for the video pointer. After watching the diagnosis & remedy however, I can't imagine how the two turnouts failed essentially simultaneously ... and they are only 3 months old. Notwithstanding the doubts, it should be easy to check whether that fixes the problem by testing with jumpers across the microswitch terminals. More as and when.

Osoraku
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 16 March 2025 20:07:55(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,548
Location: Paris, France
Hi Osoraku
Just a shoot in the dark.
IMO there is NO WAY that an MS2 and its Gleisbox 60116 would have destroyed SIMULTANEOUSLY two decoders and still work.
Another possibility is MAYBE an anlogue use of the track and switches with an old transformer. The overvoltage can easily kill decoders without leaving traces. Those decoders are VERY fragile
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
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My Layout
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Offline rhfil  
#5 Posted : 16 March 2025 21:41:07(UTC)
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rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 674
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
I agree plus my experience with failing micro switches is they continue to operate in one direction. Easy way to tell is replace one decoder.
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Offline osoraku  
#6 Posted : 23 March 2025 15:30:48(UTC)
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osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Setubal, Palmela
Dear All -

Following the procedure recommended by JohnVR & rhfil, I removed the solenoid from its cover and shorted across the microswitch terminals to test. There is no response to the digital signal to switch the points. To verify that the microswitches were working correctly, I moved the solenoid to each of its limit positions and tested each switch to verify that they turn on and off. Hence it is not a problem with the microswitches.

I traced the CS2 protocol packets sent by the controller to the turnout to move the points. There are three packets sent:

  1. controller → track to actuate the switch (CS2 protocol packet 0x'0B', command, rocrail CAN hash);
  2. gleisbox → controller to confirm switch actuation and send DCC command to switch on the rail (CS2 protocol packet 0x'0B', response, gleisbox CAN hash);
  3. DCC agent (turnout) → controller to confirm switch actuation (CS2 protocol packet 0x'0B', response, DCC agent CAN hash).


So the DCC agent in the turnout thinks it is actuating the points, but they do not move. I can only surmise there is a fault in the electronic side of the turnout making it unable to power the solenoid.

Jean suggested that the electronics were quite fragile. I have no analog transformers to blame the fault on, but it is possible that a derailment briefly shorted out the track circuit. Could this cause both turnouts to simultaneously fail?

Any further diagnostic comments welcome.

Osoraku
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Offline Copenhagen  
#7 Posted : 23 March 2025 21:50:10(UTC)
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Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 491
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
About a month ago I had a turnout with a built in decoder that failed. It wasn't the switch motor that failed but the decoder that stopped working. I have some switch motors that I have fixed in the past. I have both a number of decoders for turnouts and also a number of m83s that can operate up to four motors each. I connected the switch motor to a free spot on an mk83 to get it to work again. I run everything with a CS3 and the standard power supply for it.
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Offline blid  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2025 22:26:24(UTC)
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blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 244
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Can’t you just test the turnout motor analogue style - without the decoder? The yellow wire to track power/B/red/studs. Then quickly touch a rail with the blue wires one at a time.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
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Offline osoraku  
#9 Posted : 24 March 2025 09:45:19(UTC)
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osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Setubal, Palmela
Dear All -

Problem resolved. Put each turnout onto the programming track, set CV8 = 8, and now each works again. No mechanical problems, no other settings changed. (No idea why a reset was needed, either!)

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Osoraku
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Offline rhfil  
#10 Posted : 24 March 2025 12:46:18(UTC)
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rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 674
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Wow. Interesting. Never would have tried that.
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Offline White Buffalo  
#11 Posted : 22 April 2025 04:35:12(UTC)
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White Buffalo

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC)
Posts: 496
Location: South Dakota
Interesting, I just had two switch motors start to act intermittently.
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Offline White Buffalo  
#12 Posted : 26 April 2025 03:38:00(UTC)
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White Buffalo

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC)
Posts: 496
Location: South Dakota
Originally Posted by: osoraku Go to Quoted Post
Dear All -

Problem resolved. Put each turnout onto the programming track, set CV8 = 8, and now each works again. No mechanical problems, no other settings changed. (No idea why a reset was needed, either!)

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Osoraku


I’m trying to test two of my switches that stopped working as well. Same symptoms, will not respond to the digital command from Rocrail or the ESU command station.

What program did you use to read the switch CV 8? I have the ESU Lokprogrammer and a ESU Command Station…Confused
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Offline osoraku  
#13 Posted : 26 April 2025 07:37:36(UTC)
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osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Setubal, Palmela
Dear WB -

It makes no odds. SET CV8 = 8 to reset, no matter what value the CV has. I used my MS2 to change it, I think.

Osoraku
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#14 Posted : 26 April 2025 10:21:55(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,548
Location: Paris, France
Hi WB
Originally Posted by: White Buffalo Go to Quoted Post
I’m trying to test two of my switches that stopped working as well. Same symptoms, will not respond to the digital command from Rocrail or the ESU command station.

With Rocrail, the possible errors could be:
- not to declare the central station in charge of the switch / signal in the field "Interface ID"
- not to declare which protocol. Avoid using "default" but rather Motorola (MM2) or NMRA DCC
- not to include the address in the field "Port1". A common error is to include it in the field "address"

The switches will not respond when they are reserved so unreserve them / restart Rocrail
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline White Buffalo  
#15 Posted : 26 April 2025 14:45:05(UTC)
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White Buffalo

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC)
Posts: 496
Location: South Dakota
Thank you ThumpUp
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