Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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Hi All, i have build the layout and now working on feedbacks and turnouts , i faced with problem which i couldnt solve , hope some one can help 1) i have cs 2 and i connect 3 x k83 to prog socket all work fine , then i connect viessman models of k83 they work ones and stop acting any more , i return them to dealer . does any one had same problem ? 2) i buy viessmann s88 5211 instead of m* brand , i connect 2 feedbacks and they work great , when i try to connect 3rd it doesnt act , i try to switch between feedback sockets but again 3rd one doesnt work . i try to connect to 4th 5 th 6 th slots it work fine but only 2 feedbacks . 3 ) i isolate all tracks in my layout and use same way of isolating all the time but still the feedback do not work ,
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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1) is there a setting on the CS2 to indicate how many s88 modules you have ? 2) did you switch the cable between #2 and #3 with the one between #1 and #2 to see if the cable is broken ? |
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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1) there is no setting on cs2 for this , when i try manually press on the icon of feedback 3 or 4 its work but it do not trigger from tracks via s88 i switch the cable betwen all of them , the result is same i try to put other cables and the results are the same
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,289
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Perhaps there is bugs in CS2...???  Or wrong by using unknown digitalproducts togehter with CS2...???  Goofy |
H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 75 Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
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WTF is an "unknown digitalproducts"? Viessman and its equipment is a very well know product.
I have a related problem with an ESU Switchpilot. At least in k83 mode it doesn't switch consistently, all my Märklin k83s does (and I do have a CS2).
As far as I can see the commands are sent as they should, but the ESU doesn't always react. If I'm stubborn it will react, but I can't use it in routes since I don't know if it really throws...
I'm working on the ESU to understand if things improve if I feed it differently (secondary powersource) and if it's a difference between its k83 and k84 behavior.
And of course there are bugs in the CS2, as there are in every friggin' digital product containing software ever released. It's by now a redundant and tiresome comment. Please turn that script off.
Bigdaddynz just gave you the link to my problem... Parallell answers...
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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the issue is that , i draw the layout on the screen then i add small circle icon on the place of the feedback points , when train is passing the color do change to yellow which mean the machine do identify the train on this point but do not trigger the function i give to him , but in the first 2 its do trigger .
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,289
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Olle3770 <br />WTF is an "unknown digitalproducts"?
And of course there are bugs in the CS2
Unknow products means to swedish language:Att använda andras(företag) digitala produkter. CS2 is not 100% ready ready made digitalproduct.(Update) Goofy |
H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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As i understand you are telling to use just marklin types with cs2?? any one has already done with s88 and cs2 ? any one who already faced this problem , or i am only on this planet who use it ? Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Goofy<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Olle3770 <br />WTF is an "unknown digitalproducts"?
And of course there are bugs in the CS2
Unknow products means to swedish language:Att använda andras(företag) digitala produkter. CS2 is not 100% ready ready made digitalproduct.(Update) Goofy
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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the fact that you say it shows the train at the spot indicates the feedback units are working. You have some problem in the logic or trigger information in the CS2 |
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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the trigger is problem , since i see the train passing from the feedback and i get the yellow light on screen , i try to take out the 2 first feedbacks and add the third as the number 1 , but then again its dont work , maybe i am doing something wrong with the isolating of the tracks , 1) i isolate all the tracks on the negative (o) legs ( cut them ) 2) i keep all the turn outs as is no cuts , 3) i put the small red dots between each feedback area i need 4) i follow to put the red dots on same direction all the time Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DaleSchultz <br />the fact that you say it shows the train at the spot indicates the feedback units are working. You have some problem in the logic or trigger information in the CS2
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Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 75 Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
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It really sounds as if there is a problem with the CS2 and s88. I only have one s88 and cannot test with more than that. Reading up on "old stuff" there has been limits (i believe?) with earlier equipment and the s88 when it comes to automation. Perhaps some of it carried over to the CS2. I tried to check it out but I can only see that feedback can be provided with s88-modules (or compatibles (unknown digitalproducts in some lingo)) but there is no mention about how many s88s you can connect. Hasn't here been limitations to this historically?
I think it's time to get answers from somebody who actually knows how it works.
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Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 75 Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Goofy<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Olle3770 <br />WTF is an "unknown digitalproducts"?
And of course there are bugs in the CS2
Unknow products means to swedish language:Att använda andras(företag) digitala produkter. CS2 is not 100% ready ready made digitalproduct.(Update) Goofy Excuse me for my Off Topic answer, but.. I give up. I'll rest my case. "Unknow" is not an English word and has no translation, not even to Swedish. Same with "digitalproduct". If you, Goofy, tried to help our discussions your bad English might be excused, but it is so tiresome to read your badly expressed bullsh-t opinions over and over again. I do not really know why I write this, since I don't think you can read and understand it at all. Why don't you just quit? What the fu*k are you doing in a Märklin message board?
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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i have also only one s88 and its not origin of marklin the brand is viessman i try once again to change the places of connections , i find that if i cancel the second feedback and install an other one so its work but again only 2 , actually when i do it from the screen manual all feedback triggers work , the problem is only on auto trigger by train . i will try to find some origin s88 and to look for that again , maybe marklin put some kind of software in cs2 which block other brands to work properly Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Olle3770 <br />It really sounds as if there is a problem with the CS2 and s88. I only have one s88 and cannot test with more than that. Reading up on "old stuff" there has been limits (i believe?) with earlier equipment and the s88 when it comes to automation. Perhaps some of it carried over to the CS2. I tried to check it out but I can only see that feedback can be provided with s88-modules (or compatibles (unknown digitalproducts in some lingo)) but there is no mention about how many s88s you can connect. Hasn't here been limitations to this historically?
I think it's time to get answers from somebody who actually knows how it works.
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Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Empirejosef <br /> maybe marklin put some kind of software in cs2 which block other brands to work properly
Considering the very simple protocol used for the S88 it is impossible to design such a blockage. It is not the first time we see this kind of completely unfounded conspiracy theories. I remember the debate about the 46715 crane not working with the Intellibox ... (The 46715 works with the Intellibox. If you use the correct configuration options.)
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,289
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by perz<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Empirejosef <br /> maybe marklin put some kind of software in cs2 which block other brands to work properly
Considering the very simple protocol used for the S88 it is impossible to design such a blockage. It is not the first time we see this kind of completely unfounded conspiracy theories. I remember the debate about the 46715 crane not working with the Intellibox ... (The 46715 works with the Intellibox. If you use the correct configuration options.) So you mean that CS2 don´t have correct configuration options for other digitalproducts in the market...? Marklins willpower by forcement Marklin customer by to only using Marklins own products...? To save company and not only warranty from Marklin either too...? Hmmm... Goofy |
H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 381 Location: Richmond, Virginia
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For what it is worth, it sounds like there is a limit to the number of switches you can use. I gather that this is only happening when you use Viesmann switches. Is there something that identifies the switches as "non-marklin"? I suppose that if I were writing a system that automated trains, I'd build a table of events and have a column in the table "point" at a list of actions to take when the event occurs. The potential for several design flaws exist: 1) there could be a limit in the number of entries for non-marklin items 2) there could be a limit in the number of actions for an event.
It seems that your testing has shown that the system is receiving the signals from the devices; so, I'd bet on #2.
It wasn't clear to me from the discussion above, do the switches function correctly independent of the cs2 system? If they are failing after hooking them into the system and they are failed permanently there has to be an electrical problem.
I'm just doing what-if speculation. I don't yet have a CS. Sorry in advance if this doesn't help.
Ralph
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Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden
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Neither the double speed MM protocol used for the k83's nor the s88 protocol has any kind of manufacturer information at all. Any theories about Märklin deliberatly blocking other manufacturer's equipment on these buses are pure nonsense.
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,289
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz Any theories about Märklin deliberatly blocking other manufacturer's equipment on these buses are pure nonsense.
But Marklin are saying,that you loss warranty by using others digitalproducts in the market. I wonder if i can using DCC digitalproducts with CS2 and not lossing warranty from Marklin...? Still mysterious... Goofy |
H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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Goofy, can you not work out that many manufacturers say to only use their products, just to increase their own sales?
Do you use only Märklin electricity? Unless you do I guess you have lost warranty...
as Per sys, these modules do not contain manufacturer information in their electrical signal. Theoretically they might have been able to detect some sort of signature in the shape of the electrical impulses that non Märklin modules would produce but that would add enormous complexity to their development and I think we would have heard from others if the Viessmann modules refuse to work. |
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Joined: 17/05/2008(UTC) Posts: 44 Location: San Francisco, CA
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My two cents worth.
The problem may be that the Viessmann 5211 are eight output units, and not 16 outputs like the Marklin ones. I know that on the ECOS you have the choice of either either 8 or 16 outputs when you configure the S88 bus items. I am not sure what the CS2 allows you to do.
This could explain why the first two units work, but the third does not. The CS2 is treating the first two 5211 as one 16 output unit and it sees the third not as a third unit but as the start of the second 16 output unit. |
Bill
ECOS1 , MS1, 6021 |
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Joined: 17/05/2008(UTC) Posts: 44 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Sorry,
I said 5211 were S88 units which they are not they are accessory decoders.
I should have said that Viessmann makes the 5217 S88 feedback unit which is 16 outputs and the 5233 that is 8 outputs. If the CS2 only sees S88 units as 16 outputs and you are using the 5233 units try telling the CS2 that you only have two S88 units. |
Bill
ECOS1 , MS1, 6021 |
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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I am using the 16 outputs 5217 viessmann , as i told before i change the order of the outputs like 1,2 or 3,8 or 3,9 or even 1,16 all works ok and trigger the turnouts or the other equipments , but when i put the third feedback its only show when train pass but not trigger , i aslo take the third feedback and put instead of the second , mean time i cancel the second one , and its work so by this i confirm that the third feedback block is installed correctly , then i ass the second again which i cancel before and the suprise was that only 1 works , now after i delete the third and return to old blocks the second did not work , only after i recall backup from cs2 all change to run as it was but only 2 i take the time today and write letter to viessmann to ask if they faced with this problem also , maybe till now all marklin units and systems use other brands and maybe marklin stuff decide to block it by some kind of software blocking , i open the 5217 box and there is some small chip inside which carry the id of the product and some small codes . i hope i will be able to solve this problem very soon since i stuck with the tracks now and not continue to built other parts Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by wa6ld <br />Sorry,
I said 5211 were S88 units which they are not they are accessory decoders.
I should have said that Viessmann makes the 5217 S88 feedback unit which is 16 outputs and the 5233 that is 8 outputs. If the CS2 only sees S88 units as 16 outputs and you are using the 5233 units try telling the CS2 that you only have two S88 units.
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Saying that your warranty is voided by hooking up a Veissman decoder to your CS2 would be the same as saying that running a Brawa or Roco LOk with a non-marklin decoder on the tracks would void the warranty. It is the same thing. |
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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As to half s88's, I don't know about the CS1 or 2, but the 6021 and the Intellibox can handle a half S88 fine. I had built a few of Rutger Freiberg's "S44"'s and they worked fine. It just bumped the S88's above it up 8 addresses. In fact, an S88 is nothing more than a four quad latches feedint two 8 stage static shift registers, so it represents two units strung together, whereas the half s88 is only one shift register and two atches. The Viessmann 8 input one should work fine. |
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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I think i find some more information from other forums , i search the forum of viessmann and find this, since i cant read german , i put this into online translator , as much i understand some also faced with similar problem in different decoder of viessman with cs2 , i will be very happy if someone who knows german and english in the forum can translate some major points from this
"Hallo,
im Rahmen der Umstellung meiner Märklin C-Gleis Weichen auf Digitalesteuerung habe ich versuchsweise die Weichendecoder 5231 in zwei Weichen montiert und diese mit der Märklin CS2 (60213) konfiguriert. Dies hat problemlos funktioniert mit Einspeisung der Schaltspannung über den Gleisanschluss. Nun habe ich aber das Problem, dass mit der Keyboard Funktion der CS 2 die Decoder nicht immer schalten. Normalerweise geht dies gut, dann medlet das Display der CS2 die Änderung der Weichenstellung, aber in der angesprochenen Weiche tut sich nichts. Durch "nachfassen" der Umschaltung geht dies manchmal, manchmal auch nicht. Dann muss die Weiche auf dem Keyboard in die Ursprungsstellung gebracht und anschliessend neu geschaltet werden. Es ist so, dass bei der Fehlfunktion kein Impuls an den Weichenantrieb geht, es herrscht absolute Ruhe. In der Testkonfiguration sind übrigens nur die zwei Weichen an der CS2 angeschlossen, keine Loks etc. Übrigens: Weichen mit Märklin Decodern funktionieren einwandfrei. Hat schon jemand ähnliche Probleme damit gehabt ?
Dies ist das erste Problem, das zweite folgt sogleich: Habe anschliessend noch versucht, die ganze Geschichte mittels "Fremdeinspeisung" der Schaltspannung direkt über einen Lichttrafo zu testen. Hier haben die Decoder überhaupt nicht reagiert. Kann es sein, dass man die Decoder mit der direkten Einspeisung nochmals neu konfigurieren muss ?"
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Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Empirejosef <br /> maybe marklin stuff decide to block it by some kind of software blocking
No, it does not work that way.
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,289
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Hemmerichthose "approved" by them. Sounds VERY reasonable.  Whom...???  Marklin says:"Doesn´t sounds good at all...!"  Goofy  |
H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534
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Hello Empirejosef,
on the CS2 you can switch automatic control off for each 8 contacts.
Do you set the hook on automatic control on S-88 n°3?? If not, there will be no automatic action of anything. But manually it does.
So it looks to me that you missed to set the hook on the automatic option. there is no Märklin conspiration against other brands and no CS2 bug behind that. Other users in other forums had the same problem and forgot the hook.
rgds
Stephan
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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Hi Supermoee, thanks for information , if you are telling about the small icon with the train and hand on memory sections , so yes i did i read also on help if the icon is only hand then only manual works and if the icon is train and hand then both is working , if you are speaking about other option to be open so i dont fins other Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee <br />Hello Empirejosef,
on the CS2 you can switch automatic control off for each 8 contacts.
Do you set the hook on automatic control on S-88 n°3?? If not, there will be no automatic action of anything. But manually it does.
So it looks to me that you missed to set the hook on the automatic option. there is no Märklin conspiration against other brands and no CS2 bug behind that. Other users in other forums had the same problem and forgot the hook.
rgds
Stephan
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Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534
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Hello EmpireJosef,
yes, that's what I meant.
Did you connected the ground of the CS2 with the first S-88?
rgds
Stephan
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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Hi Supermoee , what do you mean about the gorund ? i do not understand exactly Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee <br />Hello EmpireJosef,
yes, that's what I meant.
Did you connected the ground of the CS2 with the first S-88?
rgds
Stephan
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Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534
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Hello Empirejosef,
with ground I mean the cable connected to the CS2 at the "0" contact of the green connector. This one needs to be connected with the ground jack (the jack with the reversed T symbol) of only the first S88.
If not, problem may occur following the Märklin FAQ.
rgds
Stephan
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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Hi all again , i did groud the s88 viessmann ,but still there is some problems, i use till now 11 feedbacks and use them with the loco shuttle routes , all seems fine the locos drive forward and back and stop at station , but when i give the s88 to trigger some accessories so its not work , i see the train is passing but no trigger , i will try to change the unit to real marklin unit maybe then it will work , and by the way i update the software to 10.5
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Joined: 25/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 68 Location: ,
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Ok i solved the problem , the main idea was i did not isolate the tracks from turnout to turnout , now i did this as first step then , i ground the s88 as supermoee recommend thanks for that , and the last step is the most important section , in memory of cs2 there is small icon which is like broken s , so this is the trigger of the machine , i put this in every point i want to trigger , and all is working
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