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LUX Radreinigungsanlage and Märklin 60901 decoder
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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I plan to buy a LUX 9301 ”Radreinigungsanlage”, i.e. a wheel cleaning facility, which is driven by a Faulhaber motor at 12 V DC according to LUX. Could I use a Märklin 60901 decoder to control the Faulhaber motor, or could this damage the motor in some way? Remembering that during ”these days”, Märklin recommended the 60905 decoder for these types of motors? |
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 1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
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Joined: 14/02/2024(UTC) Posts: 59 Location: Grand-Est, Alsace
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If by Faulhaber motor you mean a brushless non-iron rotor type, then you should really prefer the 60905, which controls the motor with much higher frequencies than the 60902/60901. 60901 is designed for (heavy) DCM DC motors with iron rotor and works in the low kHz range. (Some decoders for coil stator motors even work with <100 Hz !) Faulhaber needs >>15 kHz.
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 2 users liked this useful post by Wolfram_Stn
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Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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Originally Posted by: Wolfram_Stn  If by Faulhaber motor you mean a brushless non-iron rotor type, then you should really prefer the 60905, which controls the motor with much higher frequencies than the 60902/60901. 60901 is designed for (heavy) DCM DC motors with iron rotor and works in the low kHz range. (Some decoders for coil stator motors even work with <100 Hz !) Faulhaber needs >>15 kHz. I read on another forum about a similar issue, that they recommended a rectifier between the decoder and motor, to eliminate the pulse (PWM) from the decoder. There is no need for load regulation etc. for this purpose. I haven’t got the Faulhaber at home yet, but wouldn’t this maybe do the trick? |
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: PeFu  Originally Posted by: Wolfram_Stn  If by Faulhaber motor you mean a brushless non-iron rotor type, then you should really prefer the 60905, which controls the motor with much higher frequencies than the 60902/60901. 60901 is designed for (heavy) DCM DC motors with iron rotor and works in the low kHz range. (Some decoders for coil stator motors even work with <100 Hz !) Faulhaber needs >>15 kHz. I read on another forum about a similar issue, that they recommended a rectifier between the decoder and motor, to eliminate the pulse (PWM) from the decoder. There is no need for load regulation etc. for this purpose. I haven’t got the Faulhaber at home yet, but wouldn’t this maybe do the trick? No, because the PWM is an on/off control of the voltage, it will only introduce a voltage drop and the motor will run only one way (well that is what you want anyway), but the pulse rate will still reach the motor. The problem is that the low pulse rate used for iron core motors (as used in the Marklin 'universal' AC motors) will shake the windings in the motor to a point where they will fall apart as they have insufficient mass to act as a filter for the pulse rate. If you could drive the motor from a function output then you won't have the problem. I suspect a headlamp output may have enough current capability to drive the faulhaber as these take a relatively low current, and the headlamp outputs are capable of driving an incandescent lamp. Would be worth checking the motor draw to check if this is possible.
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 3 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,446 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: Wolfram_Stn  If by Faulhaber motor you mean a brushless non-iron rotor type, then you should really prefer the 60905 "Faulhaber" motors are coreless motors, but they are not brushless. You're right, the 60901 is not appropriate and the 60905 was made for coreless motors. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 2 users liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,914 Location: Michigan, Troy
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My old dealer/repair tech. installed a 60901/60902 decoder in my #3511 Lady of Wurtemberg C. I have the manual for the decoder. It buzzes at slower speed, but runs well. Should he have used a different decoder? It was done back in the late 90's.
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Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan  If you could drive the motor from a function output then you won't have the problem. I suspect a headlamp output may have enough current capability to drive the faulhaber as these take a relatively low current, and the headlamp outputs are capable of driving an incandescent lamp. Would be worth checking the motor draw to check if this is possible. Thanks kiwiAlan! According to LUX the device will take approximately. 150 mA. I will test with a function output instead |
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Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 1,159
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Originally Posted by: marklinist5999  My old dealer/repair tech. installed a 60901/60902 decoder in my #3511 Lady of Wurtemberg C. I have the manual for the decoder. It buzzes at slower speed, but runs well. Should he have used a different decoder? It was done back in the late 90's. Its the "wrong" decoder, even if it works the motor will probably not last as long as it might do with a correct decoder. It's more information on the stummiforum about this, but you have to search. So depending on how much you have used it, a new mld3/msd3 or similar is recommended. And remember to select the correct motor type and do the automatic calibration. This will likely make it run better also, unless the motor is too far gone. Depending on how the upgrade was done, a new decoder board might be useful. eg something like this: https://luessi.ch/eshop/oc/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2438&search=Class+C (note the clip for the centre "pole", so you need to check your locomotive in order to get the right parts).
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 1 user liked this useful post by bph
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,914 Location: Michigan, Troy
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I don't think the buzzing is from the motor, but it could be. This model was analog with LED lights, and a circuit board with caps., and a chip originally including the dip switches and the maximum speed and acceleration, and brake delay pots.
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 1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
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Joined: 14/02/2024(UTC) Posts: 59 Location: Grand-Est, Alsace
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Originally Posted by: H0  Originally Posted by: Wolfram_Stn  If by Faulhaber motor you mean a brushless non-iron rotor type, then you should really prefer the 60905 "Faulhaber" motors are coreless motors, but they are not brushless. You're right, the 60901 is not appropriate and the 60905 was made for coreless motors. My error, I was in confusion between brushless and coreless. Brushless, that's Sinus... English is not my best known foreign language, I am better in german, french and rhine-franconian.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Wolfram_Stn
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: marklinist5999  My old dealer/repair tech. installed a 60901/60902 decoder in my #3511 Lady of Wurtemberg C. I have the manual for the decoder. It buzzes at slower speed, but runs well. Should he have used a different decoder? It was done back in the late 90's. Yes, that buzzing can potentially shake the windings apart.
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 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 17/12/2018(UTC) Posts: 128 Location: Kapiti Coast
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I didn't have a decoder suitable lying about so I've just opted to order the 9301.7 with the decoder built in, for the approx 27Euro extra i feel i have taken the lazy option :)
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 1 user liked this useful post by nhumps
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Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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I just received the LUX Radreinigungsanlage! I connected it to the F1 output from an old 6090x decoder, which provided 17.3 V DC. Added an 180 Ohm resistor to bring it below 12 V, and tested the machine. Success! Speed seems to be the same as on different Youtube clips, but in case needed, I will add a potentiometer later. Next: Add some required tracks to the layout! |
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 2 users liked this useful post by PeFu
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Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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I have installed the LUX Wheel Cleaner in connection with the expansion of the shadow station. I first controlled the facility using the function output of the Märklin decoder as described above, but found that the facility slowed down too much when cleaning heavy models. Therefore I installed an ESU LokPilot 5 decoder using the motor output (on 40 kHz) instead. As you can see on the clip, the decoder’s load regulation feature keeps the speed of the facility even when running the heavy old HAG Re 4/4II. In Freiwald’s forum for the Railroad & Co TrainController, I found a way of controlling the facility from the switchboard, i.e. without opening a locomotive/engine window or assigning the facility to a block, described in the image below.  |
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 6 users liked this useful post by PeFu
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Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,977 Location: CA, USA
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I'll ask the important question: how good of a job does it do cleaning? |
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 2 users liked this useful post by 5HorizonsRR
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Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR  I'll ask the important question: how good of a job does it do cleaning? The wheels from the trains leave some dust on the strips, so it seems as if it helps. There are several performance reviews available if you google it. |
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 2 users liked this useful post by PeFu
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Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 225 Location: Herning in Denmark
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I don't quite understand, why you want a decoder built in.
The Lux track cleaner must simply be placed as little visible as possible, and every time a train passes by, it must clean all the wheels.
Why not just choose a relay that turns on as long as there is passing traffic, and let the relay control an insulated rail, after all the Märklin rails in question.
The relay solution also makes it easier to fit in 12 Volt DC.
Or is there something I have overlooked? |
Best regards Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/- |
 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
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Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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Originally Posted by: bygger01  I don't quite understand, why you want a decoder built in.
The Lux track cleaner must simply be placed as little visible as possible, and every time a train passes by, it must clean all the wheels.
Why not just choose a relay that turns on as long as there is passing traffic, and let the relay control an insulated rail, after all the Märklin rails in question.
The relay solution also makes it easier to fit in 12 Volt DC.
Or is there something I have overlooked? Well, I don’t have a 12 V DC source, only several DC sources at approx. 20 V, so I would have to arrange for a potentiometer or similar anyway. Also, I want the flexibility to be able to use the stubtrack for staging trains also, i.e. not only for cleaning. This is easier if the facility is controlled by the PC software. Finally, the decoder provides load regulation, i.e. the wheel cleaner doesn’t slow down that much, when entered by heavy engines vs. light cars. It’s a huge difference now compared to when i used a function output of a decoder for powering the wheel cleaner (as described in a previous post). |
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 1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
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Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 225 Location: Herning in Denmark
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Don't you save old mobile chargers or the like, because then you probably also want 12V DC! |
Best regards Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/- |
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Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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Originally Posted by: bygger01  Don't you save old mobile chargers or the like, because then you probably also want 12V DC! In post #14 i declared that the decoder is installed and everything fine. In #18 I stated why I wanted a decoder to control the wheel cleaner. I.e. no need for a separate DC charger, at least not for this animation. |
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 1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
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Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,977 Location: CA, USA
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Originally Posted by: PeFu  Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR  I'll ask the important question: how good of a job does it do cleaning? The wheels from the trains leave some dust on the strips, so it seems as if it helps. There are several performance reviews available if you google it. Thanks! I am very interested in one as a potential for solution for me, and I get my layout moving that is. As always, I love the progress on your layout! |
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 1 user liked this useful post by 5HorizonsRR
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