It seems as if you want to do exactly what I did with my C-sinus Krok, except I had to put the Fx decoder and speaker into the car behind the engine, for space reasons. In the description of the Youtube clip, I explain more in detail; Some remarks:

- The Fx decoder has to be MM. Turn off Mfx, DCC and analogue operation.
- If the C-sinus decoder has e.g. address 50, the Fx decoder address has to be 50.
- The engine/motor sound has to be within F1-F4. Note that your C-sinus decoder may have one or more of the F1-F4 functions!
- You can easily enable also F5-F16 using the ESU Lokprogrammer, if you want. From TC, in my example you will access F5-F8 using address 51, F9-F12 using 52 and F13-F16 using 53.



EDIT: Your 39821 is probably using all functions, F1-F4. I would suggest that you simply remove the current speaker in the 39821 (oh, sorry, you already have), and use one of the previous sound functions for the Loksound Fx engine/motor sound.

Hello PeFu,

First of all -- what a GREAT video! I was very impressed on how your lights dim and the train takes its time before moving out of the station. Very realistic -- the announcements, the lights dimming, the movement! WOW!

Now to the topic at hand. Thank you very much for the explanation. I will try to implement your suggestion. I was not sure how to access all the functions (sounds/effects) that I programmed into the FX decoder from TC. I forgot about the "consecutive addressing" scheme to get to functions above F8. I only have a few remaining old MM decoders -- only those driving C-Sine locos -- so there should be no address conflict for the extended addressing scheme.

I have programmed a V200 project into the FX decoder. Basically, I took a LokSound 5 project and imported it into the LokSound 5 FX. ESU has done a good job with how the LokProgrammer imports projects. The FX project retains the motor profile -- even though it can't control the motor -- but it can use that profile to adjust the motor sound to the speed/load of the loco. The motor sound is activated by F1 (as usual). I disconnected the original Marklin sound PC board (including the speaker) and installed small sugar cube speakers with baffles. There's plenty of room for that in the V200 -- especially after removing the original PC board.

I would like to get clarification on your last sentence. What do you mean by "... use one of the previous sound functions for the LokSound FX engine/motor sound"? As in my original V200, I will use F1 to activate "Operating Sound", but it will use the new motor sound that is programmed into the LokSound 5 FX decoder. I would not think that it matters which function key activates sound, because the original Marklin sound decoder and speaker is no longer in the loco. Can you please explain?

Once again, thank you for your help, and congratulations on your layout (and video production). I'm off to the train room to try this out...

Andry

Well, you did exactly what I failed to explain! In the 39821 decoder, there are functions F1-F4 for changing lights etc. and sound functions. As you removed the old speaker, you should use one of the F1-F4 functions that managed sound for the 39821 decoder, for engine/motor sound in the new Loksound Fx decoder. Which you did!

Yes! As the 39821 decoder will still execute F2=Marker Lights and F4=Direct Control, you shouldn’t use F2 and F4 on the new Loksound Fx. As you are planning, F2 will change Marker Lights AND provide an Airhorn! That’s why I recommended only using one of the 39821’s sound functions, i.e. F1 or F3, for the Fx decoder. (Been there, done that…)

I have just finished programming and installing the LokSound 5 FX decoder in the loco. Test run was successful with F0-F4 working as intended. But...

I'm not sure how to assign multiple addresses in TC to get functions F5-F16 to work. I've never done that before. What I've done is the following:
1. Edit mode
2. Double click the V200 loco (which has address 20)
3. Select "Functions" tab
4. Functions F5-F8: "Alt. Address" (bottom right corner) = 21
5. Functions F9-F12: "Alt. Address" = 22
6. Functions F13-F16: "Alt. Address" = 23

However when I activate any function above F4 in TC, there is not sound produced. BTW, the ECoS only has F0 to F4 programmed -- the V200 is set for "Motorola 28" protocol. Not sure if this matters.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions in fixing this problem.
Andry

Hello once again,

Slowly-but-surely I'm getting there. However, it still does not work right. I noticed that in LokProgrammer -- under "Address / Locomotive address" -- there is a pull-down menu for "Additional addresses". I selected "Use 4 addresses (Motorola only)". See screenshot below. Is this correct?




I also changed the loco function assignments to what you've recommended above. Please see screenshots below. Are these correct?








Thank you for your patience with my questions!

Andry

Hi Andry,

What protocols have you set on the ECoS for the Engine and the sound decoder?

The Alternate address will only work if the decoder protocols are the same.

There is an alternative you may wish to consider where you can use mixed protocols.

I have written two articles on how to do consists for manual and TC consists that may give you some ideas to achieve your goal.

In manual mode on the ECoS setup a consist.

Manual Consist

In TrainController setup a consist.

TC Consist

Hope the articles will provide some help.

Hi Pe,

Why should mfx, DCC and analogue be disabled within LokProgrammer?

The manual consisting is only for people who don't control their trains with a computer.

The TC consisting shows how items with different protocols can be used together.
Andry is using two decoders in the engine, protocols unknown. Addressing two decoders in TC can be used as two logical items as TC doesn't know the different decoders are physically in the one engine.

Boy am I glad that you folks have taken interest in helping me out! Thank you so much.

After much trial-and-error -- and with all the feedback that I've received from all of you -- I think that I've managed to solve this problem.

Now to address the various issues raised in this thread.
1. "Consisting" is not really the issue in this case since both decoders are in the same locomotive. Note: Ross has done an incredible job in his write-up on his web site -- amazing! I often refer to his web site and try to absorb his knowledge.

2. The LokSound 5 FX decoder was programmed with my LokProgrammer: Address 20 (MM protocol only) -- i.e., Mfx, DCC, Selectrix and analogue modes are all disabled.

3. As predicted, the problem was with protocols!

Background: I use the ECoS only as a "command station", i.e., to send multi-protocol digital signals to the layout. I use TC for control of the layout. My accessories are all DCC and my locomotives are a mix of DCC, Mfx, and MM. I don't have anything programmed into the ECoS, except locomotives. The default protocol in the ECoS for new locos is "DCC 28" and for new accessories it's "DCC" (see picture "ECoS Setup").




Because the V200 has an MM decoder, it does not automatically register in the ECoS. Therefore, I used the ECoS "new loco" setup menu and entered my loco. It came out as "Motorola 14", address 20 (see picture "ECoS - V200 Address 20 (MM)").




When the LokSound 5 FX decoder was entered into the ECoS, it automatically was assigned the DCC protocol because of my ECoS defaults (see background info above and picture "ECoS - V200 Address 21 (DCC)").




Once I corrected this problem, I had access to the FX decoder's function keys (see picture "ECoS - V200 Address 22 (MM)").

Problem solved!




Additional notes:

The ECoS allowed me to assign 8 functions under the V200 address 20 (MM). Because of this, I only needed one additional V200 entry in the ECoS to control function F9-F16. (see picture "ECoS - V200 Function Keys").




The addresses used are "20" for the original C-Sine motor decoder and "22" for the LokSound 5 FX decoder. I'm not 100% sure why that is, but maybe because MM decoders only had 4 functions, the ECoS uses two addresses for each set of 4 functions (i.e., 20 and 21).


Last question: Now I have two V200 locos showing up in TC. Is there a way to hide one of them? Can the FX decoder "loco" be suppressed or merged into one?


Thank you once again for all your help!

Andry

Hi Andry,

Well done in solving the problem.
No you can't merge them into one.

If you display your locos in Multi display you can access them then switch to the control dial if required.

Hello Ross,

Thank you! I think that this is exactly what I have shown in the picture "ECoS - V200 Function Keys", where I have two side-by-side displays of this loco -- the right one with F0-F8 and the left one with F9-F16. To me, needing two instances of the same loco is not terribly important because I use TC and don't usually run locos with the ECoS. However, it would be nice to combine both under one "master" V200 control with F0 thru F16 available (just like any of my DCC or Mfx locos).



Hello PeFu,

I did not have to define decoders in the ECoS. I only had to "manually" select the locomotive from the internal ECoS database, i.e., Marklin model number 39821. This is because MM decoders don't automatically register (I think it's the same with the CS2). The ECoS then added this loco to my defined list of locos. This enty had the five functions (F0-F4) that were originally provided by Marklin and also showed four unused functions. Therefore, in the ECoS under "Properties" of this loco, F5-F8 were available, so I entered these functions manually and they worked.

In TC, I only imported the main loco from the ECoS, using "Train / Loco Database in Central Unit". Because I programmed the LokSound 5 FX decoder as having 4 addresses (see below), only one loco is required in TC to control the motor and all 16 functions. Great!




Below are pictures of the loco "Function" screen. Note that I only use address 20 and 22. ("20" is shown as "0" in the "Alt. Address" field because it's the default address programmed into the decoder -- see picture above). I'm pretty sure that TC uses successive addresses for each decoder to access all 8 functions in each respective decoder (because of the MM format limits), and that's why four addresses (20, 21, 22, 23) are required to access all 16 functions. (Just my speculation).




Sorry that this is all a bit "long-winded", but it's hard to explain all the little details in order to make some sense out of this endeavour.

Please feel free to correct any mistakes that I've made, or improve on my logic (or lack of)...

Cheers,
Andry

It makes no big difference, but the FX loco decoders from Märklin support 27 speed steps and "Motorola 27" can be used in the ECoS.

Hi Kiko
There is no import as software like TC or Rocrail need only to know (1) the protocol and (2) the address
TC or RR send orders to the CS2 or CS3 following the Märklin protocol (MBUS) using for this Central unit the Ethernet (CAT5 or CAT6 cable) link either direct or through a router / TV-Internet Box
Cheers
Jean