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Offline johnhendry  
#1 Posted : 27 November 2024 18:29:58(UTC)
johnhendry

United States   
Joined: 06/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Georgia, Atlanta
We have a new CS3 and all the auto registrations have gone perfectly until we put the E50 (39500) on the programming track. No activity at all. I've tried to manually register it on Address 50 without any luck. I've got the loco open and it looks absolutely perfect. Any suggestions what I might test for 'under the hood'?
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 30 November 2024 07:49:16(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,214
Originally Posted by: johnhendry Go to Quoted Post
We have a new CS3 and all the auto registrations have gone perfectly until we put the E50 (39500) on the programming track. No activity at all. I've tried to manually register it on Address 50 without any luck. I've got the loco open and it looks absolutely perfect. Any suggestions what I might test for 'under the hood'?


Tried on the main track by register loco?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Online JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 30 November 2024 11:24:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,428
Location: Paris, France
Hi John
The 39500 is a 2007 digital E50 loco with a SDS (Soft Drive Sinus)motor and a sound module.
The first thing to check is that the power-source switch is set to rails and working.
The other thing to check is the slider and its connection to the loco.
Check very delicately that the SDS motor is connected to its platina (a lock/unlock connector) and that the cable has not been pulled away
Here is the exploded view of the central / Electronic part of the loco
Sans titre.png

The good and bad
- SDS motors are the best Märklin ever produced but alas cannot be replaced not its electronics with drivers
- the decoder (21 MTC interface) can be replaced by an mLD3 or an mSD3 for sounds BUT it must be programmed at least to change the motor type to a SINUS motor

Here are two electric Märklin locos of the exact same era (39401 and 26540 set) with an SDS motor and separate - simplified - sound module
Sans titre.png

Cheers
Jean
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Offline johnhendry  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2024 16:56:30(UTC)
johnhendry

United States   
Joined: 06/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Georgia, Atlanta
Thank you Jean! I’m looking at everything and it all looks perfect. I’ve attached pics, hopefully you can see them. Could the decoder just fail? It seems unlikely.

IMG_1898.jpegIMG_1899.jpegIMG_1902.jpeg
Online JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2024 17:40:46(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,428
Location: Paris, France
Hi John
"Could the decoder fails?" Yes it could have but other things may also be wrong.
I suggest to test the loco with AC power (from 6 to 14 VAC) and see if something happens (light, motor turning, etc). DO NOT try to reverse direction with an old Märklin transformer.
By testing using an mLD3 (60972) or mSD3 (60977) AND updating the motor type (CV 52=1 und CV 56 =0 and CV 51 =24 or =0 depending if AUX3 and AUX4 or logical or buffered.

If the test is negative, you may still use the decoder used for test for another loco.

Make sure FIRST that the power reaches the decoder (21MTC interface). Use a multimeter to check the continuity
Pin 21 connected to wheels
Pin 22 connected to slider
Sans titre.png

Cheers
Jean
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Offline rhfil  
#6 Posted : 01 December 2024 23:57:27(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 571
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
The CS3 has a feature "find missing mfx loco". I would try that with the loco on the programming track. And on the layout with all other locos removed.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 02 December 2024 07:51:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,390
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: johnhendry Go to Quoted Post
I've tried to manually register it on Address 50 without any luck.
That only makes sense if you disable mfx in the CS at the same time.
It is worth a try as with those old mfx decoders, often the "mfx sender" on the decoder fails and loco cannot register.
There is a (good) chance that the loco will work using MM protocol if mfx is disabled in the controller.

If it works, then you can check if motor and lights work fine - and then maybe order a new decoder.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline johnhendry  
#8 Posted : 02 December 2024 14:25:39(UTC)
johnhendry

United States   
Joined: 06/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Georgia, Atlanta
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: johnhendry Go to Quoted Post
I've tried to manually register it on Address 50 without any luck.
That only makes sense if you disable mfx in the CS at the same time.
It is worth a try as with those old mfx decoders, often the "mfx sender" on the decoder fails and loco cannot register.
There is a (good) chance that the loco will work using MM protocol if mfx is disabled in the controller.

If it works, then you can check if motor and lights work fine - and then maybe order a new decoder.



HO, thank you. The only manual I have for the CS3 is very basic. I can't find any detail on how to disable MFX as you say above?
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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 02 December 2024 14:35:00(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,604
Location: Michigan, Troy
johnhendry, you disable/enable protocalls in the syhstem settings menus. Go through and look at them to familiarize yourselve's with the system. As long as you don't click OK afterm you check a change, it won't change. Maybe order the newest CS3 big book. It has more detailed user guides.
Offline johnhendry  
#10 Posted : 02 December 2024 14:40:34(UTC)
johnhendry

United States   
Joined: 06/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Georgia, Atlanta
Okay, I'll do that, thank you.
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Offline johnhendry  
#11 Posted : 02 December 2024 14:48:08(UTC)
johnhendry

United States   
Joined: 06/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Georgia, Atlanta
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi John
"Could the decoder fails?" Yes it could have but other things may also be wrong.
I suggest to test the loco with AC power (from 6 to 14 VAC) and see if something happens (light, motor turning, etc). DO NOT try to reverse direction with an old Märklin transformer.
By testing using an mLD3 (60972) or mSD3 (60977) AND updating the motor type (CV 52=1 und CV 56 =0 and CV 51 =24 or =0 depending if AUX3 and AUX4 or logical or buffered.

If the test is negative, you may still use the decoder used for test for another loco.

Make sure FIRST that the power reaches the decoder (21MTC interface). Use a multimeter to check the continuity
Pin 21 connected to wheels
Pin 22 connected to slider
Sans titre.png

Cheers
Jean


Thank you, Jean. I'm going to go through each of these steps. I'll let you know.
Offline eduard71  
#12 Posted : 03 December 2024 21:19:12(UTC)
eduard71

Chile   
Joined: 27/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 297
Location: Santiago
Hi John,
I will also reccomend to first start reviewing the slider. I have had cases of locomotives not starting due oxidation of the cooper contacts after a long period of time of not been used. Take out the slider take a look to it, move it and then re install it and test the locomotive again. May be that is the problem.
Next step will be to test it deactivating MFX protocol in the CS3 and using MM only to test. If there is no reaction (lights or sound) there is still a possibility of a failure in the connection from the slider to the decoder or the return to the decoder.

Regards
Eduardo




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Offline johnhendry  
#13 Posted : 12 December 2024 16:35:43(UTC)
johnhendry

United States   
Joined: 06/11/2024(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Georgia, Atlanta
Originally Posted by: eduard71 Go to Quoted Post
Hi John,
I will also reccomend to first start reviewing the slider. I have had cases of locomotives not starting due oxidation of the cooper contacts after a long period of time of not been used. Take out the slider take a look to it, move it and then re install it and test the locomotive again. May be that is the problem.
Next step will be to test it deactivating MFX protocol in the CS3 and using MM only to test. If there is no reaction (lights or sound) there is still a possibility of a failure in the connection from the slider to the decoder or the return to the decoder.

Regards
Eduardo






Well, I sat down and got ready to go through every suggestion that you guys made but I started with this one, Eduard71. Turns out the slider was clicked into the wrong position and was not making any contact with the connector. It's moved the slider, put it on the programming track and it's running beautifully. You can't help stupid!! We now have every single loco running from my Dad's set (16) and we're starting the layout build. Thank you guys for all the help!!
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