 Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 694 Location: England, South Coast
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A while back someone posted a link to some very useful pages that would help someone like me get his catenary erection going. I have lost the link and my attempts at search have brought out 100s pages. This is for older Marklin stuff on M track. I have some period catalogues that will help but I know that there is something better out there. Many thanks in advance. Edited by moderator 24 June 2017 23:33:56(UTC)
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 1 user liked this useful post by Michael4
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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13 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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kimballthurlow, foumaro, jaseguvi, Crazy Harry, petestra, 1borna, dickinsonj, tn hillbilly, GaryTrooper, JohnjeanB, Jimmy Thompson, 3104V200, DB77
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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 694 Location: England, South Coast
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Many, many thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for...hours of entertaining fun ahead...bet I run out 7023 first!
Best
Michael
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3 users liked this useful post by Michael4
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 Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC) Posts: 406 Location: Hailey, Idaho
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Anyone know where you can get some 7006's? |
G - LGB
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato |
1 user liked this useful post by GaryTrooper
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Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
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5 users liked this useful post by TEEWolf
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 Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Hi all, I would like some help in identifying a Maerklin catenary mast assembly which I purchased 10 years ago. I would like to purchase a few more, it is from the later 70000 series of Maerklin catenary. Of course I discarded the rather large box in which it came. I have checked the PDF download for the 70000 series, and it is one item not mentioned in the list of items in the last few pages. PDF manual of 70000 series catenary - 88 pages instructionsThe mast and section was designed to span two tracks, and you can see it in this photo behind the tree in upper right (sorry mistakenly said left previously).  So it has the two hangers assembled ready to take the catenary. The inner hanger is attached to the mast, and the outer hanger is at the end of a cast horizontal/vertical inverted L section. It is very well designed and made. Thanks in advance Kimball Edited by user 02 January 2019 20:21:13(UTC)
| Reason: right side of photo, not left .... a seniors moment |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
5 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Ah ah found it using google " maerklin cross span". It is the #74106. The extended outrigger can be adjusted further or closer to the first track.  And here is a photo of the real thing I took in December 2018. It is at Eberbach on the Neckar River, south Odenwald BW. This one has dual arms at 180 degrees. And dual outriggers at the end of the arm. I took the picture of the train, but just happened to include this great structure.  Kimball Edited by user 03 January 2019 08:12:59(UTC)
| Reason: included the photo of the real structure. |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
7 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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The 3rd Rail is currently doing a splendid tutorial on this subject, very informative
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7 users liked this useful post by joyofmarklin
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Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
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After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product.
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2 users liked this useful post by Mr. Ron
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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Glad the 3rd Rail site has been mentioned as there is a wealth of experience generously shared. An invaluable site for all levels, certainly has helped me expand my knowledge and encourage to attempt more projects😁😁
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1 user liked this useful post by joyofmarklin
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Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC) Posts: 406 Location: Hailey, Idaho
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron  After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product. I don't believe I would be an electrical engineer today if it wasn't for endless, sometimes frustrating, hours of trial and error as a kid in my parents basement playing with Märklin trains. |
G - LGB
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato |
2 users liked this useful post by GaryTrooper
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,563 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product. Hi Ron I am sorry to disagree. Märklin trains are educational. In the 50s it was about electricity, relays, wiring. Now it is about digital, electronics, sounds programming etc. Yes I am an Engineer in Electricity, electronics but I played with my Märklin trains, adding more than 100 relais (IBM, bistable 4PDT) well before becoming an Engineer. So maybe Märklin caused me to become and Engineer In the late 50s I received an electronic kit from Jouef (I live in France) with transistor, diode, resistors, etc. The period was just like that Cheers Jean |
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6 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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I think there is some truth in it (Märklin helped me), I'm not an engineer, I'm not a technician, I'm not a computer whizz, I'm not an electronic whizz but I'm able to fit Led's into my locos and I was able with the help of an electronic engineer to establish a module with a reflective optocoupler which in turn triggers a pulse (usable for 1 direction only)., the benefit is not just having a bullet proof switching module but it can be mounted anywhere on the track between the sleepers., it has an 8mm maximum height sensor so axles are excluded from triggering a pulse and I think Märklin has failed to make a 100 % reliable switchen track., regardless if its a K-track or C-track.
John
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2 users liked this useful post by river6109
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,475 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product. I don't believe I would be an electrical engineer today if it wasn't for endless, sometimes frustrating, hours of trial and error as a kid in my parents basement playing with Märklin trains. When I was an apprentice my boss had a story of his time at university getting his degree. In the 1960s/70s New Zealand had a scheme where as part of an aid package for lesser developed countries, specifically SE Asia, they paid for students to go through New Zealand universities. My boss had a number of these students in his engineering classes, and they had a lot of problems understanding many of the basic mechanical concepts. My boss put it down to them not having played with Meccano as kids, and hence not learnt some basic mechanical skills. It is surprising just what skills we absorb as children, even if we don't understand the theory behind what we are doing. many animals can achieve the same abilities - a dog can calculate just where and how high a ball is going to bounce.
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4 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC) Posts: 252 Location: England, Guildford
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Hornby Dublo three rail was simple with no complications. When Meccano Ltd decided to go over to two rail the trouble started which many say ultimately led to the company’s downfall and it’s takeover by Triang. Kids and their fathers just could not fathom out the wiring and extra special rails required if you had points, rival two rail manufacturers had insulated ‘frog’ points which were self isolating. The Hornby Dublo two rail system was designed by a talented and very capable electrical engineer and was technically superior to most other two rail systems of the time but it’s complexity put buyers off big time. Too late they introduced ‘Simplex’ points which were self isolating.
If users were put off by the intricacies of Märklin catenary at least most could cope with the more basic elements and would buy Märklin anyway.
I found that Märklin is as complicated or simple as you want to make it.
I was an instructor in and later ran a British Railways technical school and agree with KiwiAlan that a lack of Meccano in a student’s childhood really put them at a disadvantage in the technical world. Some had no idea of how to use a screwdriver!
ChrisG
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2 users liked this useful post by Mman
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Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC) Posts: 406 Location: Hailey, Idaho
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan
It is surprising just what skills we absorb as children, even if we don't understand the theory behind what we are doing. many animals can achieve the same abilities - a dog can calculate just where and how high a ball is going to bounce.
So.... here's a story. When I receive my second Märklin transformer I plugged one into the wall outlet, connected the two transformers together with the yellow and brown wires and connected a light bulb socket with a 120 V light bulb to the plug of the second transformer. The light lite however dimer than normal. I did know enough not to tough the bare wires. It was a monumental experiment for an unsupervised middle school kid. All because of this picture::  |
G - LGB
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato |
6 users liked this useful post by GaryTrooper
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Joined: 03/04/2023(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: Illinois, Chicago
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I apologize if this has been covered before. I'm planning a 320cm x 140 cm digital HO C-track layout with decorative catenary.
For the shadow station, should I use the Viesmann tunnel catenary 4195 or no catenary at all? If no catenary, how much height do I need so I can run with the Pantographs up?
Thanks!
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,563 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: sforugby I apologize if this has been covered before. I'm planning a 320cm x 140 cm digital HO C-track layout with decorative catenary.
For the shadow station, should I use the Viesmann tunnel catenary 4195 or no catenary at all? If no catenary, how much height do I need so I can run with the Pantographs up?
Thanks! Hi I had a similar problem and purchased the band for shadow station catenary. I soon realized that it had multiple drawbacks: - additional cost - reduced accessibility when a train is stopped, derailled or when track cleaning is needed. Even a possibility to cut yourself with the brass band trying to solve a stuck train issue - additional wear of the pantographs So my suggestion is: - not to install the band (catenary for shadow station) - avoid having wires near the underneath track - have a minimum clearance above tracks of 12 cm. If less, then better have the electrics with pantographs down or with a height restrain trick (either very thin nylon or mechanical fiddling of the maximum height tongue - manage to have a smooth transition, so that fully deployed pantographs do not collide with the catenary when leaving the shadow zone. A nice 10° slope would do. - check the pantographs of each new loco for excessive height deployment. - check the "ceiling" of the shadow track for protruding screws, etc Just my suggestions Cheers Jean |
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2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 03/04/2023(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: Illinois, Chicago
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Hi Jean, thank you for the suggestions! I'm at the point to build a transition from non-tunnel to tunnel section before I cover up (I was able to get enough clearance and test ran a few e-loks with pantographs up). What is the best method for the transition back to catenary? I'm playing around with the Viessman 4195 tunnel system but doesn't work as smooth as i wish. Thank you again for all your help! Best, Stan Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Originally Posted by: sforugby I apologize if this has been covered before. I'm planning a 320cm x 140 cm digital HO C-track layout with decorative catenary.
For the shadow station, should I use the Viesmann tunnel catenary 4195 or no catenary at all? If no catenary, how much height do I need so I can run with the Pantographs up?
Thanks! Hi I had a similar problem and purchased the band for shadow station catenary. I soon realized that it had multiple drawbacks: - additional cost - reduced accessibility when a train is stopped, derailled or when track cleaning is needed. Even a possibility to cut yourself with the brass band trying to solve a stuck train issue - additional wear of the pantographs So my suggestion is: - not to install the band (catenary for shadow station) - avoid having wires near the underneath track - have a minimum clearance above tracks of 12 cm. If less, then better have the electrics with pantographs down or with a height restrain trick (either very thin nylon or mechanical fiddling of the maximum height tongue - manage to have a smooth transition, so that fully deployed pantographs do not collide with the catenary when leaving the shadow zone. A nice 10° slope would do. - check the pantographs of each new loco for excessive height deployment. - check the "ceiling" of the shadow track for protruding screws, etc Just my suggestions Cheers Jean
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,563 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Stan
Seems to me the best and easiest is to have one more catenary and mast past the tunnel but have the mast (one if straight, two if curved) mounted on a small piece of wood so that when leaving the zone without catenary, the pantos are fully extended but the catenary starts even higher and presses down the pantos until their normal operating height.
You have to work the details: what maximum height above the rails is ANY of your loco? Add one centimeter to start the catenary-slope-down. What slope down angle with the horizontal? 10° or so I think.
It may be a little trickier in sharp curves
Cheers
Jean |
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 Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 422 Location: Niagara, Ontario
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I have used Jean's suggestion for over a decade. I first saw the catenary mast on a small block of wood at the 2013 Treff. An Italian group of M track enthusiasts used it on a large, and beautiful modular layout. It works beautifully. I also use very light fishing line, 4 1/2 test, to tie the pantographs down to a lower more realistic height. This helps keep them either just under, or just touching the catenary. As I do not use the catenary for power, only for looks, this is quite successful. The light line is invisible. The only drawback is that it can be trying to get just right for height.
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1 user liked this useful post by Dreadnought
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Sorry to wade into this topic so late but I just came across it. When I first started my layout I was using the catenary for power (on my digital system) and installed Noch tunnel catenary throughout my hidden areas. After several years of struggling to maintain it, I finally switched all loks back to track power and eliminated the catenary in the hidden areas. I installed high "capture" masts wherever the loks emerged from the hidden areas and made sure that there was sufficient clearance for the extended pantographs in the hidden areas. |
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4 users liked this useful post by rschaffr
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