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Offline Michael4  
#1 Posted : 24 June 2017 18:32:01(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 643
Location: England, South Coast
A while back someone posted a link to some very useful pages that would help someone like me get his catenary erection going. I have lost the link and my attempts at search have brought out 100s pages.

This is for older Marklin stuff on M track. I have some period catalogues that will help but I know that there is something better out there.

Many thanks in advance.

Edited by moderator 24 June 2017 23:33:56(UTC)  | Reason: Made topic Sticky

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 24 June 2017 23:30:34(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,671
Location: New Zealand
Might have been me that did that, I know I've posted these before.

Marklin Catenary System.pdf (1,024kb) downloaded 1,146 time(s).

Marklin Catenary System for 5100_5200 Series Track.pdf (3,611kb) downloaded 980 time(s).

I've made this topic 'Sticky' so that it can be found relatively easier.
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Offline Michael4  
#3 Posted : 25 June 2017 10:11:44(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 643
Location: England, South Coast
Many, many thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for...hours of entertaining fun ahead...bet I run out 7023 first!

Best

Michael
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Offline GaryTrooper  
#4 Posted : 11 March 2018 20:39:37(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 396
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Anyone know where you can get some 7006's?
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Offline TEEWolf  
#5 Posted : 31 March 2018 20:08:30(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Anyone know where you can get some 7006's?


Try it here

https://www.ebay.de/p/M%...6-Oberleitung/1804697076

(he is writing almost sold out.)

https://www.ebay.de/itm/...8974?hash=item213af66cae

https://www.ebay.de/p/M%...sid=p2047675.m4097.l9055

https://www.ebay.de/itm/...RAUBEN-usw-/262959957695

https://picclick.de/25f-...Cck-in-282301124596.html

of course they are all used.

I typed the German words "märklin fahrdraht isolierung" or "maerklin oberleitung isolierung" into Google and got all these results.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#6 Posted : 02 January 2019 10:41:06(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,675
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all,
I would like some help in identifying a Maerklin catenary mast assembly which I purchased 10 years ago.
I would like to purchase a few more, it is from the later 70000 series of Maerklin catenary.
Of course I discarded the rather large box in which it came.
I have checked the PDF download for the 70000 series, and it is one item not mentioned in the list of items in the last few pages.
PDF manual of 70000 series catenary - 88 pages instructions

The mast and section was designed to span two tracks, and you can see it in this photo behind the tree in upper right (sorry mistakenly said left previously).
2 span mast assembly for catenary.

So it has the two hangers assembled ready to take the catenary.
The inner hanger is attached to the mast, and the outer hanger is at the end of a cast horizontal/vertical inverted L section. It is very well designed and made.

Thanks in advance
Kimball

Edited by user 02 January 2019 20:21:13(UTC)  | Reason: right side of photo, not left .... a seniors moment

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 02 January 2019 22:50:47(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,675
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Ah ah found it using google " maerklin cross span".

It is the #74106. The extended outrigger can be adjusted further or closer to the first track.

74106 cross span mast for 2 track catenary

And here is a photo of the real thing I took in December 2018.
It is at Eberbach on the Neckar River, south Odenwald BW.
This one has dual arms at 180 degrees.
And dual outriggers at the end of the arm.

I took the picture of the train, but just happened to include this great structure.
UserPostedImage

Kimball

Edited by user 03 January 2019 08:12:59(UTC)  | Reason: included the photo of the real structure.

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline joyofmarklin  
#8 Posted : 07 September 2021 02:29:32(UTC)
joyofmarklin

United States   
Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: phoenix
The 3rd Rail is currently doing a splendid tutorial on this subject, very informative
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Offline Mr. Ron  
#9 Posted : 02 January 2022 21:36:38(UTC)
Mr. Ron

United States   
Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 311
Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product.
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Offline joyofmarklin  
#10 Posted : 19 May 2022 17:54:00(UTC)
joyofmarklin

United States   
Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 116
Location: phoenix
Glad the 3rd Rail site has been mentioned as there is a wealth of experience generously shared. An invaluable site for all levels, certainly has helped me expand my knowledge and encourage to attempt more projects😁😁
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Offline GaryTrooper  
#11 Posted : 19 May 2022 18:32:13(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 396
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron Go to Quoted Post
After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product.


I don't believe I would be an electrical engineer today if it wasn't for endless, sometimes frustrating, hours of trial and error as a kid in my parents basement playing with Märklin trains.
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 19 May 2022 22:57:49(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,155
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron Go to Quoted Post
After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product.

Hi Ron
I am sorry to disagree. Märklin trains are educational. In the 50s it was about electricity, relays, wiring. Now it is about digital, electronics, sounds programming etc.
Yes I am an Engineer in Electricity, electronics but I played with my Märklin trains, adding more than 100 relais (IBM, bistable 4PDT) well before becoming an Engineer.
So maybe Märklin caused me to become and Engineer
In the late 50s I received an electronic kit from Jouef (I live in France) with transistor, diode, resistors, etc. The period was just like that
Cheers
Jean

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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 20 May 2022 06:56:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,746
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I think there is some truth in it (Märklin helped me), I'm not an engineer, I'm not a technician, I'm not a computer whizz, I'm not an electronic whizz but I'm able to fit Led's into my locos and I was able with the help of an electronic engineer to establish a module with a reflective optocoupler which in turn triggers a pulse (usable for 1 direction only)., the benefit is not just having a bullet proof switching module but it can be mounted anywhere on the track between the sleepers., it has an 8mm maximum height sensor so axles are excluded from triggering a pulse and I think Märklin has failed to make a 100 % reliable switchen track., regardless if its a K-track or C-track.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 20 May 2022 14:40:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,118
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mr. Ron Go to Quoted Post
After watching the "3rd rail" videos, it appears the Marklin train system was not created for children. The complexity of signaling and catenary requires adult hands on and even that may be too intense for some adults. I now can understand why some don't use catenary on their layouts; it is complicated. I am attempting to employ catenary on my layout, but I will be using self-made catenary components for a custom installation. I think it will be much easier (and less costly) than using Marklin components. Designing it from the ground up may sound like "re-inventing the wheel", but it gives me understanding along the way of how it all comes together. But I do acknowledge the work others have done to make Marklin trains the best system around. Many have said, "Marklin trains are too expensive and overpriced", but just look at an exploded view of a typical Marklin locomotive and you will understand why they cost so much more than the competitors product.


I don't believe I would be an electrical engineer today if it wasn't for endless, sometimes frustrating, hours of trial and error as a kid in my parents basement playing with Märklin trains.


When I was an apprentice my boss had a story of his time at university getting his degree. In the 1960s/70s New Zealand had a scheme where as part of an aid package for lesser developed countries, specifically SE Asia, they paid for students to go through New Zealand universities. My boss had a number of these students in his engineering classes, and they had a lot of problems understanding many of the basic mechanical concepts. My boss put it down to them not having played with Meccano as kids, and hence not learnt some basic mechanical skills.

It is surprising just what skills we absorb as children, even if we don't understand the theory behind what we are doing. many animals can achieve the same abilities - a dog can calculate just where and how high a ball is going to bounce.

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Offline Mman  
#15 Posted : 20 May 2022 15:40:37(UTC)
Mman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 247
Location: England, Guildford
Hornby Dublo three rail was simple with no complications. When Meccano Ltd decided to go over to two rail the trouble started which many say ultimately led to the company’s downfall and it’s takeover by Triang. Kids and their fathers just could not fathom out the wiring and extra special rails required if you had points, rival two rail manufacturers had insulated ‘frog’ points which were self isolating. The Hornby Dublo two rail system was designed by a talented and very capable electrical engineer and was technically superior to most other two rail systems of the time but it’s complexity put buyers off big time. Too late they introduced ‘Simplex’ points which were self isolating.
If users were put off by the intricacies of Märklin catenary at least most could cope with the more basic elements and would buy Märklin anyway.
I found that Märklin is as complicated or simple as you want to make it.
I was an instructor in and later ran a British Railways technical school and agree with KiwiAlan that a lack of Meccano in a student’s childhood really put them at a disadvantage in the technical world. Some had no idea of how to use a screwdriver!
ChrisG
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Offline GaryTrooper  
#16 Posted : 23 May 2022 05:40:54(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 396
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


It is surprising just what skills we absorb as children, even if we don't understand the theory behind what we are doing. many animals can achieve the same abilities - a dog can calculate just where and how high a ball is going to bounce.



So.... here's a story. When I receive my second Märklin transformer I plugged one into the wall outlet, connected the two transformers together with the yellow and brown wires and connected a light bulb socket with a 120 V light bulb to the plug of the second transformer. The light lite however dimer than normal. I did know enough not to tough the bare wires. It was a monumental experiment for an unsupervised middle school kid.

All because of this picture::

20220522_213744~2.jpg
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Offline sforugby  
#17 Posted : 19 October 2023 22:08:14(UTC)
sforugby

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2023(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Illinois, Chicago
I apologize if this has been covered before. I'm planning a 320cm x 140 cm digital HO C-track layout with decorative catenary.

For the shadow station, should I use the Viesmann tunnel catenary 4195 or no catenary at all? If no catenary, how much height do I need so I can run with the Pantographs up?

Thanks!
Offline JohnjeanB  
#18 Posted : 19 October 2023 23:20:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,155
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: sforugby Go to Quoted Post
I apologize if this has been covered before. I'm planning a 320cm x 140 cm digital HO C-track layout with decorative catenary.

For the shadow station, should I use the Viesmann tunnel catenary 4195 or no catenary at all? If no catenary, how much height do I need so I can run with the Pantographs up?

Thanks!

Hi
I had a similar problem and purchased the band for shadow station catenary. I soon realized that it had multiple drawbacks:
- additional cost
- reduced accessibility when a train is stopped, derailled or when track cleaning is needed. Even a possibility to cut yourself with the brass band trying to solve a stuck train issue
- additional wear of the pantographs

So my suggestion is:
- not to install the band (catenary for shadow station)
- avoid having wires near the underneath track
- have a minimum clearance above tracks of 12 cm. If less, then better have the electrics with pantographs down or with a height restrain trick (either very thin nylon or mechanical fiddling of the maximum height tongue
- manage to have a smooth transition, so that fully deployed pantographs do not collide with the catenary when leaving the shadow zone. A nice 10° slope would do.
- check the pantographs of each new loco for excessive height deployment.
- check the "ceiling" of the shadow track for protruding screws, etc

Just my suggestions
Cheers
Jean
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Offline sforugby  
#19 Posted : 18 March 2024 17:00:47(UTC)
sforugby

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2023(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Illinois, Chicago
Hi Jean, thank you for the suggestions!

I'm at the point to build a transition from non-tunnel to tunnel section before I cover up (I was able to get enough clearance and test ran a few e-loks with pantographs up).

What is the best method for the transition back to catenary? I'm playing around with the Viessman 4195 tunnel system but doesn't work as smooth as i wish.

Thank you again for all your help!

Best, Stan



Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sforugby Go to Quoted Post
I apologize if this has been covered before. I'm planning a 320cm x 140 cm digital HO C-track layout with decorative catenary.

For the shadow station, should I use the Viesmann tunnel catenary 4195 or no catenary at all? If no catenary, how much height do I need so I can run with the Pantographs up?

Thanks!

Hi
I had a similar problem and purchased the band for shadow station catenary. I soon realized that it had multiple drawbacks:
- additional cost
- reduced accessibility when a train is stopped, derailled or when track cleaning is needed. Even a possibility to cut yourself with the brass band trying to solve a stuck train issue
- additional wear of the pantographs

So my suggestion is:
- not to install the band (catenary for shadow station)
- avoid having wires near the underneath track
- have a minimum clearance above tracks of 12 cm. If less, then better have the electrics with pantographs down or with a height restrain trick (either very thin nylon or mechanical fiddling of the maximum height tongue
- manage to have a smooth transition, so that fully deployed pantographs do not collide with the catenary when leaving the shadow zone. A nice 10° slope would do.
- check the pantographs of each new loco for excessive height deployment.
- check the "ceiling" of the shadow track for protruding screws, etc

Just my suggestions
Cheers
Jean


Offline JohnjeanB  
#20 Posted : 18 March 2024 23:12:30(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,155
Location: Paris, France
Hi Stan
Seems to me the best and easiest is to have one more catenary and mast past the tunnel but have the mast (one if straight, two if curved) mounted on a small piece of wood so that when leaving the zone without catenary, the pantos are fully extended but the catenary starts even higher and presses down the pantos until their normal operating height.
You have to work the details: what maximum height above the rails is ANY of your loco? Add one centimeter to start the catenary-slope-down. What slope down angle with the horizontal? 10° or so I think.

It may be a little trickier in sharp curves
Cheers
Jean
Offline Dreadnought  
#21 Posted : 19 March 2024 14:39:34(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 418
Location: Niagara, Ontario
I have used Jean's suggestion for over a decade. I first saw the catenary mast on a small block of wood at the 2013 Treff. An Italian group of M track enthusiasts used it on a large, and beautiful modular layout. It works beautifully. I also use very light fishing line, 4 1/2 test, to tie the pantographs down to a lower more realistic height. This helps keep them either just under, or just touching the catenary. As I do not use the catenary for power, only for looks, this is quite successful. The light line is invisible. The only drawback is that it can be trying to get just right for height.
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