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Offline fvelazdem  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2023 12:24:40(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Hello everyone.

I have a new C-track turntable (74862) that has been working perfectly until a few days ago. Now when I select one of the slots that I defined in the installation it never stops there and therefore a loco cannot go to the warehouse.

This coincided when I tried to carry a loco from the year 64 that is all metal and therefore very heavy and it seemed that the roundabout could not handle it.

Does anyone know what can I do? Is there a way to reset the turntable so that it starts working correctly?

Thanks in advance
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2023 12:41:39(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Did you check that all the small plastic thingies that mark installed tracks are still in place?
Maybe the load of the old loco was so heavy that the bridge of the turntable touched one of those and pulled it out of place.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline fvelazdem  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2023 13:02:29(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Did you check that all the small plastic thingies that mark installed tracks are still in place?
Maybe the load of the old loco was so heavy that the bridge of the turntable touched one of those and pulled it out of place.



Not yet, thanks for the advice. I will check
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 20 November 2023 13:23:20(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,160
Location: Paris, France
Hi Fernando
I think many issues come fom the very flimsy structure of the TT:
- Märklin redesigned the support of the TT (now a ring instead of 6 small Z-shaped holders
- you started having problems when a heavy loco was used
- many other complains from marklinists

I think, one way to correct this is to prepare a thick plywood (15 mm?) support round with cut-outs (for the motor, etc) and ears (for the threaded rod supports) to come into contact of the bottom of the pitt.

The whole support plywood plate is to be attached to the main layout board by means of six threaded rods and nuts so that the support can be solid and precisely adjusted.
This is a general disease of most turntables. I have a 7286 (Fleischmann / Märklin) with similar problems but far less than on this new Märklin TT.
On this TT, the bridge's weight rests with the outer circular rail and this is where the TT needs the most support

Another thing to do is to re-initialize the TT (In case an electrical contact glitch caused the decoder to lose its data.

And of course check the presence of all these small tabs for optical detection that may be extracted by the TT when ere are too large mechanical constrains
If they are all in place, don't touch them.

Cheers
Jean
Offline fvelazdem  
#5 Posted : 21 November 2023 13:01:02(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Fernando
I think many issues come fom the very flimsy structure of the TT:
- Märklin redesigned the support of the TT (now a ring instead of 6 small Z-shaped holders
- you started having problems when a heavy loco was used
- many other complains from marklinists

I think, one way to correct this is to prepare a thick plywood (15 mm?) support round with cut-outs (for the motor, etc) and ears (for the threaded rod supports) to come into contact of the bottom of the pitt.

The whole support plywood plate is to be attached to the main layout board by means of six threaded rods and nuts so that the support can be solid and precisely adjusted.
This is a general disease of most turntables. I have a 7286 (Fleischmann / Märklin) with similar problems but far less than on this new Märklin TT.
On this TT, the bridge's weight rests with the outer circular rail and this is where the TT needs the most support

Another thing to do is to re-initialize the TT (In case an electrical contact glitch caused the decoder to lose its data.

And of course check the presence of all these small tabs for optical detection that may be extracted by the TT when ere are too large mechanical constrains
If they are all in place, don't touch them.

Cheers
Jean


Thanks Jean for your advices, I have Plywood installed more or less as your recommendation. What I do not know is how I can re-initialize the TT. If you tell me how to do it it will be a great help. In parallel I wrote marklin describing my issue. As soon as I get an answer I will share. By the way, there is no marklin document where advice against using heavy Locos with the TT

Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 21 November 2023 13:59:35(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,160
Location: Paris, France
Hi Fernando
Assuming you have a CS3
- you must start with a back-up of your CS3 for safe-keeping
- then you select the EDIT tab (top right of screen
- then select edit article list on the drop-down menu
- next find where your DS is located (Drehscheibe or Turntable -TT - in German)

Here is the same on mine (but with a different TT model 7286)
cs3_edit Plaque Tournante 1.png
- Select it and delete it.
- If you azre in MFX, the TT will register again. If it does not then return to the main screen, select the EDIT tab and then, in the drop-down menu, select "Discover MFX items like here

cs3_screenshot_2023_11_21_12_43_14.png

- then select edit TT (click on the TT symbol and then push the RIGHT ARROW (bottom right of screen)

cs3_edit Plaque Tournante 1.png

- Pushing the arrow you get this screen

cs3_edit Plaque Tournante 2.png

- before re-initiailizing the TT, position it to the position you wish to be track 1 using the upper field "Correct Track 1")
- once, this is done, then push "Start Programming"
- The TT will then scan for all track positions (whether there is a track or a "concrete border") each time emitting a different sound for tracks or for borders.
- when this is finished, you must leave this {programming} screen by selecting CLOSE.
- now, when you select the TT, you will see your TT exact configuration and you may drag the TT image to the wished position and the TT will follow.
Here is the video from Märklin but in German so you may correct potential mistakes I have made because I don't have this TT but another one



I hope this helps
Cheers
Jean
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Offline fvelazdem  
#7 Posted : 21 November 2023 20:21:34(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Fernando
Assuming you have a CS3...



Jean, Thanks a lot!!! I will do

Edited by moderator 26 April 2024 05:17:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline fvelazdem  
#8 Posted : 17 December 2023 19:23:24(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Jean,

Disassemble the TT, check if the pukos were correctly placed, everything is correct. I reinstalled the TT and followed the steps you suggested. Nothing worked, even the configuration shows places to stop and in those places it did not change the puko, a disaster. I wrote to Marklin and after a few days they replied asking me to send them the TT. It's frustrating, the TT is not exactly cheap and it has worked for me for very few days. By the way, Marklin answered me that using the TT with such an old and therefore heavy Loco should not cause problems.
Offline Ross  
#9 Posted : 17 December 2023 22:50:17(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Fernando/All,

As Jean said this is the setup for the old 7686-7687 turntable.

The c-track turntable 74861 and 74862 only has 30 segments and the programming is different

You should ensure that the CS3 firmware is upto date first.
The C-track turntable has a mfx decoder but the default protocol for the TT is MM
Find the TT and it will register as mfx
Make sure you select it and you should only see 30 segments
You will be able to set track 1 first then initilize to program all the required segments.

I hope you get it repaired soon.

Originally Posted by: fvelazdem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Fernando

cs3_edit Plaque Tournante 2.png

Jean


Jean, Thanks a lot!!! I will do


Ross
Offline fvelazdem  
#10 Posted : 18 December 2023 14:20:09(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Thanks Ross. This Morning I wento the my Marklin Dealer and they will send the TT to Marklin after Christmass, Marklin do not accept any shipping during this peiod.
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Offline fvelazdem  
#11 Posted : 11 January 2024 13:25:24(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by: fvelazdem Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Ross. This Morning I wento the my Marklin Dealer and they will send the TT to Marklin after Christmass, Marklin do not accept any shipping during this peiod.


Happy new year for everybody. Last week through the marklin dealer I sent to Marklin the TT, let see how long it will take, I'm afraid quite a bit.

In addition I bought 39745 and it was blocked, even with the fingers I was not able to move the wheels. I also sent the loco to marklin.

I will keep you update of any news.
Offline 60904  
#12 Posted : 13 January 2024 22:10:10(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by: fvelazdem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fvelazdem Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Ross. This Morning I wento the my Marklin Dealer and they will send the TT to Marklin after Christmass, Marklin do not accept any shipping during this peiod.


Happy new year for everybody. Last week through the marklin dealer I sent to Marklin the TT, let see how long it will take, I'm afraid quite a bit.

In addition I bought 39745 and it was blocked, even with the fingers I was not able to move the wheels. I also sent the loco to marklin.

I will keep you update of any news.


Hi,

it is impossible to turn the wheels!!! Nothing is blocked. The gearing does not allow this. Worm gear! Most of the new models have this- for many years.
Greetings
Martin
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Offline fvelazdem  
#13 Posted : 03 April 2024 13:53:21(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by: fvelazdem Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Ross. This Morning I wento the my Marklin Dealer and they will send the TT to Marklin after Christmass, Marklin do not accept any shipping during this peiod.


Hi everybody!

I just received a whatsup from the dealer, the TT is back repaired from Marklin. This afternoon I will go to the dealer to pick it. After three months is here again.

I wrote Marklin sending thanks and gave them an advice. I think should be important for Marklin to not loose Customer contact. The UE privacy polices prevents the dealer to include customer info in the shipping.

If they asked the dealer for the Inside Club membership number, no customer information would be revealed and Marklin would have information on who he sent for repair.
Offline Drongo  
#14 Posted : 03 April 2024 14:00:40(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,226
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: fvelazdem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fvelazdem Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Ross. This Morning I wento the my Marklin Dealer and they will send the TT to Marklin after Christmass, Marklin do not accept any shipping during this peiod.


Hi everybody!

I just received a whatsup from the dealer, the TT is back repaired from Marklin. This afternoon I will go to the dealer to pick it. After three months is here again.

I wrote Marklin sending thanks and gave them an advice. I think should be important for Marklin to not loose Customer contact. The UE privacy polices prevents the dealer to include customer info in the shipping.

If they asked the dealer for the Inside Club membership number, no customer information would be revealed and Marklin would have information on who he sent for repair.


Did Marklin give you some information on what was wrong with the TT ? I had to send mine back for repairs like you did and I want to compare notes
.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline fvelazdem  
#15 Posted : 12 April 2024 13:25:05(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Hi Drongo,


No infromation about the repair. I checked the TT carefully and I think is new. The one I sent had the step broken and the one I received is perfect.

Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 12 April 2024 18:13:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,034
Try this time by use DCC protocol when you add turntable to the CS3.
By the way...turntable should handle with heavy locomotives without the problems.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Ross  
#17 Posted : 12 April 2024 22:34:02(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Sydney, NSW
Goofy,

Why would you want want to do this? The default protocol is MM and works well.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Try this time by use DCC protocol when you add turntable to the CS3.
By the way...turntable should handle with heavy locomotives without the problems.


Ross
Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 13 April 2024 10:42:53(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,034
Märklin recommended by use DCC protocol when you shall program and change value in some CV adress.
Similar same way when you use digital signals.
I never use MM protocol when i did found out more easier way by program with the DCC protocol.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Ross  
#19 Posted : 14 April 2024 00:14:10(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Goofy,

Can you state the manual and page where Märklin recommended your statement below.
Changing the protocol to DCC can only be done with a CS2/CS3.
What CV address have you changed to improve the turntable operation?


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklin recommended by use DCC protocol when you shall program and change value in some CV adress.
Similar same way when you use digital signals.
I never use MM protocol when i did found out more easier way by program with the DCC protocol.


Ross
Offline Goofy  
#20 Posted : 14 April 2024 13:59:16(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,034
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi Goofy,

Can you state the manual and page where Märklin recommended your statement below.
Changing the protocol to DCC can only be done with a CS2/CS3.
What CV address have you changed to improve the turntable operation?


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklin recommended by use DCC protocol when you shall program and change value in some CV adress.
Similar same way when you use digital signals.
I never use MM protocol when i did found out more easier way by program with the DCC protocol.




You can use MS2 as control for the turntable too.
I did not said if i have turntable.
I did just recommended what Märklin too suggested.
You can always try by use DCC protocol too with the turntable via MS2 or CS3.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Ross  
#21 Posted : 15 April 2024 00:20:46(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Sydney, NSW
Goofy,

I don't have a problem with the turntable working in default MM protocol and I wouldn't recommend changing to DCC protocol without good reason.
I will end my comments now.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hi Goofy,

Can you state the manual and page where Märklin recommended your statement below.
Changing the protocol to DCC can only be done with a CS2/CS3.
What CV address have you changed to improve the turntable operation?


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklin recommended by use DCC protocol when you shall program and change value in some CV adress.
Similar same way when you use digital signals.
I never use MM protocol when i did found out more easier way by program with the DCC protocol.




You can use MS2 as control for the turntable too.
I did not said if i have turntable.
I did just recommended what Märklin too suggested.
You can always try by use DCC protocol too with the turntable via MS2 or CS3.



Ross
Offline Goofy  
#22 Posted : 15 April 2024 17:32:03(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,034
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Goofy,

I don't have a problem with the turntable working in default MM protocol and I wouldn't recommend changing to DCC protocol without good reason.
I will end my comments now.



But you are not the TS who has the problem.
I did just suggested to other that they can use DCC protocol too with the turntable and i found out more easier way by use DCC protocol which also Märklin do recommended too.
You can program to DCC via mfx in the CS3.
The reason why i like DCC is just because possible by use other digital system by use DCC with Märklins turntable.
Severals other Märklinist do have similar same problem like TS and i am not surprised cause of bad quality by Märklin.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#23 Posted : 15 April 2024 18:03:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,121
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

But you are not the TS who has the problem.


Well, that is a certain amount of the pot calling the kettle black.

You have admitted you don't have one of these turntables, but persist in giving "advice" about how to get it working.

You keep saying that Marklin recommends DCC to sort the problem out but don't give any reference for this. I'm pretty sure that if this is a recommendation from Marklin that there would be rather more to the procedure than just 'use DCC'. That is why (if this is a real recommendation from Marklin) a reference to that detail would be useful. Just saying that Marklin products can use DCC is not useful information.

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Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 15 April 2024 20:34:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I did just suggested to other that they can use DCC protocol too with the turntable and i found out more easier way by use DCC protocol which also Märklin do recommended too.
Where do Märklin recommend this for the turntable? This question has been asked before in this thread, but so far you ignored it.
You do not have that turntable, as I understand it.

Theoretically the turntable can be operated in DCC mode using an MS2, but it is not possible to activate DCC mode of the turntable using an MS2.
Thus DCC is not a simple option for turntable owners who only have an MS2 as a controller.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Purellum  
#25 Posted : 15 April 2024 23:21:45(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,506
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

According to the manual there are things you can't do in DCC Blink

There is not mentioned anything you can't do in MFX BigGrin

Quote: "The 74862 turntable is preset for operation using MM /
mfx. It can be reprogrammed to DCC. This is only possible
however with the Central Station 2 / 3 using mfx. It can also
be reprogrammed back. Reprogramming for operation with
the 72760 control box using DCC is not possible."

I would like to know what it is you can do in DCC that you can't do in MFX? Confused

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#26 Posted : 20 April 2024 07:06:13(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,034
I did checked after Trix turntable and it has same decoder like Märklin.
Trix turntable are set at DCC but can also change to MM by use CS3 via mfx protocol.
I am glad that i didn´t bought Märklin turntable since there are not 100% good product.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#27 Posted : 20 April 2024 13:27:48(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,506
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I am glad that i didn´t bought Märklin turntable since there are not 100% good product.


Is there any chance that you will actually answer my question:



"I would like to know what it is you can do in DCC that you can't do in MFX?!"


<Not holding my breath>

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline fvelazdem  
#28 Posted : 22 April 2024 13:11:37(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Hi everybody,

I'm really frustrated, having recently installed again the TT it has suddenly blocked up there is no way for it to move.

I have done everything to unblock, reinstall it, etc. It has been blocked because I have inserted a very heavy machine, the first loco I had, which is from 1965 and digitized. I have contacted a Marklin Spain Technician and he has confirmed that this product is having many issues, has confirmed to me that when we use a very heavy loco and since the pukos to detect tracks are made of very thin plastic, the plate sinks due the weight of the loco a few millimeters and it blocked the TT.

Marklin Spain requested to me to send the TT to them, they will try to unblock and avoid to send it back to Germany.

Marklin Spain has designed a plate to prevent the TT from sinking due to weight. In the following link you have all the details:


https://www.marklin-spai...icializacion-de-esta.pdf

The document is in Spanish but there is a lot of photos with the description of the plate.

I planned to install this plate

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Offline franciscohg  
#29 Posted : 22 April 2024 17:35:54(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,276
Location: Patagonia
Nice and clever solution. Marklin should made such parts and deliver them to TT users.
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline fvelazdem  
#30 Posted : 22 April 2024 18:15:28(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Nice and clever solution. Marklin should made such parts and deliver them to TT users.



you are right, but......
Offline mvd71  
#31 Posted : 22 April 2024 21:53:12(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,773
Location: Auckland,
That looks like a good solution they have come up with. I think Märklin has a responsibility to produce a solid solution like this at no cost for all people with there product
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Offline fvelazdem  
#32 Posted : 23 April 2024 13:24:02(UTC)
fvelazdem

Spain   
Joined: 20/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Madrid, Spain
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
That looks like a good solution they have come up with. I think Märklin has a responsibility to produce a solid solution like this at no cost for all people with there product



You are right
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