 Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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I have a c-track layout with
* 12 turnouts with the 74491 turnout mechanism and the 74462 digital decoder, addresses sett in the range 1 – 13, fx(mm) format
* m83 decoder operating 2 uncoupler tracks, address set to 17
* Mobile Station with 60116 digital connecter box and 66361 power pack
* Central Station CS3+ with 60041 power pack
* Power distributed in a star layout to multiple parts of the layout
* Both CS3+ and the MS updated with the latest SW
When I built up my up my Christmas layout, connected the CS3+, updated the SW, and then testing, I was not able to operate 5 of the turnouts (all operated last year).
I tested the turnouts not operating with a single track connected to the MS – all operated with the address given.
Put all the turnouts back in the layout – still not able to operate them with the CS3+. Disconnecting the CS3+ including the power supply, and the connecting the MS with its power supply, all turnouts operate as expected.
I have also "reset" the CS3+, did not solve the problem.
Any suggestions?
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 1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Some turnout decoders do not work when the red and brown wires have been swapped.
Red goes to B or centre rail, brown goes to 0 or outer rail.
Maybe these five decoders require a particular polarity and maybe polarity is reversed with the MS2 vs CS3. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
2 users liked this useful post by H0
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 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,452 Location: Scotland
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if they work with the MS then the turnouts should be OK. Did you delete them from the Cs3 then ask for them to be found again. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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First of all – thank you for your suggestions.
Some updates after a lot of testing yesterday:
• I tested one of the non-operating turnouts – connected the CS3 to a single track – it operated as expected
• I split may layout in 2; and was able to operate the previous non-operation turnouts most of the times:
• The 1st half of the layout operated finally after a lot of testing, but when retested after a while, still problem with one turnout. This turnout I tested separately connecting the CS3 to a single track – it operates as expected; but not when put back in the layout
• The 2nd half of the layout operated as expected when testing the turnouts. Put on a BR 81, I experienced problems switching the turnout when the train was nearby; the started also to flicker after a while
I checked all wiring, both under the tracks, and the distribution – found that some of the flat sleeve connectors did not fit tight to the track – adjusted them, but still the same problems.
I also monitored the track current with the CS3 – one of the halves had almost 0,5A power consumption in idle state. I understand that this is way too high, so I connected the CS3 to a single track, now I had 0,3A; which I understand is at least 10x to high.
Removed the track connection plug from the CS3, still 0,3A power consumption. Something with my CS3 – HW or SW?
My track layout is around 20m, power distributed before and after all turnouts, together to other parts of the layout. Is it recommended to add a booster (60175 + 60041)?
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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 Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,883 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Hi, twenty meters is approximately 65 feet. My layout track total is about 46 feet. If mine were as long and I were experiencing what you are, I would add a booster. Is your CS3 relatively new, and or updated? Have you tried an additional power feed to the section of where the inoperative turnouts are? Just my thoughts.
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2 users liked this useful post by marklinist5999
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,452 Location: Scotland
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Looks like not enough power to the layout. Booster may be needed. Try taking everythinrg that uses power off the layout and see if all the turnouts are working. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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 Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,589 Location: Spain
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Track length has nothing to do with power consumption. You can run kilometers of track with a single MS2. Just add more feeder-cables, and use thicker wires for longer stretches.
The consumption of power has to do with number of locos running, lights and other power-consumers. |
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1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: Arnstein  First of all – thank you for your suggestions.
Some updates after a lot of testing yesterday:
• I tested one of the non-operating turnouts – connected the CS3 to a single track – it operated as expected
• I split may layout in 2; and was able to operate the previous non-operation turnouts most of the times:
• The 1st half of the layout operated finally after a lot of testing, but when retested after a while, still problem with one turnout. This turnout I tested separately connecting the CS3 to a single track – it operates as expected; but not when put back in the layout
• The 2nd half of the layout operated as expected when testing the turnouts. Put on a BR 81, I experienced problems switching the turnout when the train was nearby; the started also to flicker after a while
I checked all wiring, both under the tracks, and the distribution – found that some of the flat sleeve connectors did not fit tight to the track – adjusted them, but still the same problems.
I also monitored the track current with the CS3 – one of the halves had almost 0,5A power consumption in idle state. I understand that this is way too high, so I connected the CS3 to a single track, now I had 0,3A; which I understand is at least 10x to high.
Removed the track connection plug from the CS3, still 0,3A power consumption. Something with my CS3 – HW or SW?
My track layout is around 20m, power distributed before and after all turnouts, together to other parts of the layout. Is it recommended to add a booster (60175 + 60041)?
Hi Arnstein The track does not draw any current in itself (only switch decoders and lanterns do). Seems to me, 0,3 A for a limited number of switch decoders (and no loco, no train?) is very high unless, of course if you use M track and bulbs in lanterns. By comparison, my layout, with 50 points with lanterns, 26 sound MFX trains and more than 30 lighted vehicles needs 2.7 A and 3.3 A when all is moving. Not sure it is your case, but built-in switch decoders are just great for "Teppichbahning" but disastrous for a permanent layout. To power a couple Decoder + Switch motor trough many track contacts is bad and lead to non-frank commuting of switches Yes spade connectors are very convenient but you quickly understand that plugging such a connector in one orientation and then the other means one orientation gives flimsy contacts so you may have the "tighten" the connector for better contact and always plug them with the same orientation - the open lips of the female connector are always facing down in my case. Just my 2 cents Cheers Jean |
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2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,883 Location: Michigan, Troy
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I should have noted prior that my turnouts do not have individual decoders. Operated by two M 83s fed from track power close to the CS3. Long wiring to two turnouts. Are we in agreement or certain that with individual turnout decoders that the track current is enough for any track distance and doesn't affect this?
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1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: H0 Some turnout decoders do not work when the red and brown wires have been swapped.
Red goes to B or centre rail, brown goes to 0 or outer rail.
Maybe these five decoders require a particular polarity and maybe polarity is reversed with the MS2 vs CS3. I have verified the polarity and everything is OK
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Hi, twenty meters is approximately 65 feet. My layout track total is about 46 feet. If mine were as long and I were experiencing what you are, I would add a booster. Is your CS3 relatively new, and or updated? Have you tried an additional power feed to the section of where the inoperative turnouts are? Just my thoughts. My CS3 is 1 year old with the latest SW. All tests performed with only tracs and turnouts - no lights etc. I have a lot of power feeds on the track, including feeds on both sides of the turnouts.
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: David Dewar if they work with the MS then the turnouts should be OK. Did you delete them from the Cs3 then ask for them to be found again. I reinstalled my CS3, and added the turnouts again - same result...
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: David Dewar Looks like not enough power to the layout. Booster may be needed. Try taking everythinrg that uses power off the layout and see if all the turnouts are working. Booster is ordered - just in case. All test performed with tracks and turnouts only.
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Track length has nothing to do with power consumption. You can run kilometers of track with a single MS2. Just add more feeder-cables, and use thicker wires for longer stretches.
The consumption of power has to do with number of locos running, lights and other power-consumers. What is strange is that I have no problems operation the turnouts with the MS - whish has a smaller power supply than the CS3. I have 1,5mm2 cables for the distribution, and 0,75mm2 to the tracks
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Originally Posted by: Arnstein First of all – thank you for your suggestions.
Some updates after a lot of testing yesterday:
• I tested one of the non-operating turnouts – connected the CS3 to a single track – it operated as expected
• I split may layout in 2; and was able to operate the previous non-operation turnouts most of the times:
• The 1st half of the layout operated finally after a lot of testing, but when retested after a while, still problem with one turnout. This turnout I tested separately connecting the CS3 to a single track – it operates as expected; but not when put back in the layout
• The 2nd half of the layout operated as expected when testing the turnouts. Put on a BR 81, I experienced problems switching the turnout when the train was nearby; the started also to flicker after a while
I checked all wiring, both under the tracks, and the distribution – found that some of the flat sleeve connectors did not fit tight to the track – adjusted them, but still the same problems.
I also monitored the track current with the CS3 – one of the halves had almost 0,5A power consumption in idle state. I understand that this is way too high, so I connected the CS3 to a single track, now I had 0,3A; which I understand is at least 10x to high.
Removed the track connection plug from the CS3, still 0,3A power consumption. Something with my CS3 – HW or SW?
My track layout is around 20m, power distributed before and after all turnouts, together to other parts of the layout. Is it recommended to add a booster (60175 + 60041)?
Hi Arnstein The track does not draw any current in itself (only switch decoders and lanterns do). Seems to me, 0,3 A for a limited number of switch decoders (and no loco, no train?) is very high unless, of course if you use M track and bulbs in lanterns. By comparison, my layout, with 50 points with lanterns, 26 sound MFX trains and more than 30 lighted vehicles needs 2.7 A and 3.3 A when all is moving. Not sure it is your case, but built-in switch decoders are just great for "Teppichbahning" but disastrous for a permanent layout. To power a couple Decoder + Switch motor trough many track contacts is bad and lead to non-frank commuting of switches Yes spade connectors are very convenient but you quickly understand that plugging such a connector in one orientation and then the other means one orientation gives flimsy contacts so you may have the "tighten" the connector for better contact and always plug them with the same orientation - the open lips of the female connector are always facing down in my case. Just my 2 cents Cheers Jean Hello Jean Only C-tracks and turnouts when testing - nothing lanterns etc. What was strange was the CS3 displays 0,3A power consumption with no track connected.... My layout is temporary - built it up for Christmas. I have power feed on both sides of all turnouts. Instead of a decoder in the turnout - is the use of the m83 a more robust alternative? My flat sleeve connectors are all facing down, and I have "tighten" those who were easy to remove.
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 I should have noted prior that my turnouts do not have individual decoders. Operated by two M 83s fed from track power close to the CS3. Long wiring to two turnouts. Are we in agreement or certain that with individual turnout decoders that the track current is enough for any track distance and doesn't affect this? I have power feed on each side of the turnouts, and are using 1,5mm2 cable for the distribution, and 0,75mm2 cable to the tracks
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,273
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Originally Posted by: Arnstein I have a c-track layout with
* 12 turnouts with the 74491 turnout mechanism and the 74462 digital decoder, addresses sett in the range 1 – 13, fx(mm) format
* m83 decoder operating 2 uncoupler tracks, address set to 17
* Mobile Station with 60116 digital connecter box and 66361 power pack
* Central Station CS3+ with 60041 power pack
* Power distributed in a star layout to multiple parts of the layout
* Both CS3+ and the MS updated with the latest SW
When I built up my up my Christmas layout, connected the CS3+, updated the SW, and then testing, I was not able to operate 5 of the turnouts (all operated last year).
I tested the turnouts not operating with a single track connected to the MS – all operated with the address given.
Put all the turnouts back in the layout – still not able to operate them with the CS3+. Disconnecting the CS3+ including the power supply, and the connecting the MS with its power supply, all turnouts operate as expected.
I have also "reset" the CS3+, did not solve the problem.
Any suggestions?
What adresses did 5 turnouts had? It is possible that after upgrade CS3 did failed turnouts adress? Try to disable all turnouts in the CS3 and shut the power off to the CS3. Wait about 2 minutes and switch the power on again for the CS3. Add turnouts back with the same adress. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
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Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC) Posts: 676 Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
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Are the switch decoders the new mfx ones or older?
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: Arnstein I have a c-track layout with
* 12 turnouts with the 74491 turnout mechanism and the 74462 digital decoder, addresses sett in the range 1 – 13, fx(mm) format
* m83 decoder operating 2 uncoupler tracks, address set to 17
* Mobile Station with 60116 digital connecter box and 66361 power pack
* Central Station CS3+ with 60041 power pack
* Power distributed in a star layout to multiple parts of the layout
* Both CS3+ and the MS updated with the latest SW
When I built up my up my Christmas layout, connected the CS3+, updated the SW, and then testing, I was not able to operate 5 of the turnouts (all operated last year).
I tested the turnouts not operating with a single track connected to the MS – all operated with the address given.
Put all the turnouts back in the layout – still not able to operate them with the CS3+. Disconnecting the CS3+ including the power supply, and the connecting the MS with its power supply, all turnouts operate as expected.
I have also "reset" the CS3+, did not solve the problem.
Any suggestions?
What adresses did 5 turnouts had? It is possible that after upgrade CS3 did failed turnouts adress? Try to disable all turnouts in the CS3 and shut the power off to the CS3. Wait about 2 minutes and switch the power on again for the CS3. Add turnouts back with the same adress. The turnouts that I can't operate inn the complete layout with the CS3 have adresses 1, 2, 3, 8 and 13. I have disabled and added them 3 times, same result. Did some more testing last night, split the layout in 2 - the CS3 is able to operate all turnouts in each halves; but not when a complete layout. The MS operates all turnouts in the complete layout.
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Joined: 01/12/2020(UTC) Posts: 11 Location: Melhus
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Originally Posted by: rhfil Are the switch decoders the new mfx ones or older? They are the new version with the DIP-switches facing down. I have set the addresses on each turnout with the DIP-switches - understand that this also could be done automatically with mfx?
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1 user liked this useful post by Arnstein
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Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC) Posts: 676 Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
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Unless you specify otherwise the CS3 will assign addresses to mfx switches so I thought it might have done that resulting in addresses that do not match the dip switch setting but it appears from your experiment that when the size if the layout is reduced everything works correctly.
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2 users liked this useful post by rhfil
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