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Offline matiSon  
#1 Posted : 23 November 2023 02:53:09(UTC)
matiSon

United States   
Joined: 01/02/2023(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: North Carolina, Burlington
Hello. I have been searching for this answer, and have not found it yet: Will older M signals work on C or K track? My plan is to have both C & K track on the layout, with K mostly up front, and C for back areas and a non-digital loop. The K part will be all digital.

Some of the M signals that I have are: 7041, 7039 and multiple 7539 units. I tried unsuccessfully to attach a picture, as I have no website to store or host it.







Offline mvd71  
#2 Posted : 23 November 2023 05:15:56(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,699
Location: Auckland,
Yes they can be used
Offline PeFu  
#3 Posted : 23 November 2023 07:32:56(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,174
If using the Märklin m83 decoder to control your old signals, the old signal lamp bulbs could cause some challenges. The bulbs are powered via ”yellow” cable, and returns via ”brown”. This means that they continously draw DC via the m83, and returns to the layout which has ”digital power” (not really AC, not really DC). The old signals could therefore cause humming sound from the decoder, or even other effects. One solution is to disconnect the powering of the lamp bulbs, and feed them via a parallell source (i.e. not with digital power). Another is to replace the bulbs with LEDs.
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10 | Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn on the Marklin-Users Forum and on Youtube
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 23 November 2023 09:55:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi
@Matison: I use Märklin older generation signals (7039, 7040, 7041, 7042, 7043) and they work very well in digital.
I started using older M83 (6083) and now newer (60832) without any problems
To implement those signals in a modern (more detailled) scenery I have embedded their large solenoid base into the layout's plywood base to look like this
Here is a humping signal
BarriereOptique Light.png

The other thing I did was to replace the small bulbs (60000) by their equivalent in LEDs. They can be found on ebay (Germany for instance) looking for "MS4 LED".They are not overheating the signals and bleaching the small colour lenses and the current is only a small fraction of a regular bulb. Because they never die is a relief because replacing them calls for removing the signal temporarily
So the station looks like this now
station.png

How to embed a Märklin signal?
- Using a vibrating saw, cut a rectangle hole (the size of the signal you want to drop down
- cut multiple carton rectangles, some with a rectangular hole in them to give more depth to the signal mechanism, and one normal to support the signal
- glue them together and use Märklin rail screws to increase strength
- cut a vertical hole for the signal wires to go down

and it looks like this

Sans titre.png


Cheers
Jean
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 23 November 2023 15:16:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,054
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: matiSon Go to Quoted Post
I tried unsuccessfully to attach a picture, as I have no website to store or host it.


Use the paper clip icon, and follow the instructions. The pictures are then stored on the forum server, and you don't need a web site to host them. The forum server does that for you.

Offline dlwestphalen  
#6 Posted : 23 November 2023 15:19:44(UTC)
dlwestphalen

Canada   
Joined: 07/02/2023(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Alberta, Calgary
Interesting … I was looking for an LED replacement for the signals. The LEDs I bought for other applications would not fit and I was wondering what kind of “surgery” would be required to replace those.

Indeed the MS4 LED is the easy solution! Thanks for the tip! If I don’t find an alternative in North America I guess I will pay for the shipping.

Also, good tip on how to hide the bulky relays.

Cheers,
Denis
Offline BenP  
#7 Posted : 23 November 2023 15:33:49(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Vintage M era signals work fine with a K/M83 decoder, but for some the pulse is not enough to move the solenoid consistently. Especially red/green 7188 lights have this problem. Cleaning them did not resolve it.
Replacing incandescent bulbs is not necessary, though color leds with same dimensions do exist. Make sure that leds work in both wiring modes, as yellow and brown get reversed by decoder; see my earlier post on this.
I use vintage semaphores, which are my favorite signal. I replaced vintage red/greens with, gasp, chinese made led signals.
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by BenP
Offline amartinezv  
#8 Posted : 23 November 2023 15:35:38(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 319
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: matiSon Go to Quoted Post
Hello. I have been searching for this answer, and have not found it yet: Will older M signals work on C or K track? My plan is to have both C & K track on the layout, with K mostly up front, and C for back areas and a non-digital loop. The K part will be all digital.

Some of the M signals that I have are: 7041, 7039 and multiple 7539 units. I tried unsuccessfully to attach a picture, as I have no website to store or host it. ]

It’s not a good idea to share digital and analog areas in the same layout
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline dave55uk  
#9 Posted : 23 November 2023 15:52:56(UTC)
dave55uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2023(UTC)
Posts: 77
Location: Ely, England
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: matiSon Go to Quoted Post
I tried unsuccessfully to attach a picture, as I have no website to store or host it.


Use the paper clip icon, and follow the instructions. The pictures are then stored on the forum server, and you don't need a web site to host them. The forum server does that for you.



I have the same problem as the OP.
I cannot upload photos from my pc as they are on my phone.
Sometimes I email them to myself so they ARE on the pc but it's a bit of a faff.
So I put my magnifing glasses on (joke) and send from my phone.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 24 November 2023 00:05:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,054
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dave55uk Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: matiSon Go to Quoted Post
I tried unsuccessfully to attach a picture, as I have no website to store or host it.


Use the paper clip icon, and follow the instructions. The pictures are then stored on the forum server, and you don't need a web site to host them. The forum server does that for you.



I have the same problem as the OP.
I cannot upload photos from my pc as they are on my phone.
Sometimes I email them to myself so they ARE on the pc but it's a bit of a faff.
So I put my magnifing glasses on (joke) and send from my phone.


You can access this forum from a phone, and attach the pictures to an existing post.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline hxmiesa  
#11 Posted : 24 November 2023 13:14:08(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,518
Location: Spain
Hum... I just connect my phone to the computer with a USB cable. Actually the same cable that is used to charge the phone.
That way the phone is available to the computer as any other disk-drive with photos.

Actually I suppose I could access it directly from the local WiFi network. -Or configure everything for the cloud anyway... RollEyes
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline matiSon  
#12 Posted : 27 November 2023 18:33:44(UTC)
matiSon

United States   
Joined: 01/02/2023(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: North Carolina, Burlington
Thanks everyone for the very helpful posts. I apologize for my late reply. I have been fighting off COVID for the past week, and have not been online very much. I hope to be feeling better soon.
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