Marklin 39161 - Br 42.90 with c-sine motor

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Marklin 39161 - Br 42.90 with c-sine motor

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ocram63_uk		#1 Posted : 03 August 2023 15:18:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 704 Location: England, Suffolk		Good day experts, as far as you know, is it possible to change the factory decoder installed on this loco? Thank you Marco


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Goofy		#2 Posted : 03 August 2023 16:17:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Good day experts, as far as you know, is it possible to change the factory decoder installed on this loco? Thank you Marco Depends what is exactly you want to do. The circuit board must be change out. ESU Loksound 5 support C-sine motor but you must have ESU circuit board install.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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H0		#3 Posted : 03 August 2023 17:02:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy ESU Loksound 5 support C-sine motor but you must have ESU circuit board install. ESU decoders do not support C-Sine motors directly. You need a motor driver board from Märklin or a third party. ESU do not make such motor driver boards.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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JohnjeanB		#4 Posted : 03 August 2023 18:39:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,130 Location: Paris, France		Hi Marco No expert here, sorry. I don't have this loco but it was released in 2006 with a C-Sine motor (not a SDS - Soft Drive Sinus). If, inside, it looks like this it is problematic to repair So I believe it is an early for of Sinus motor where a mSD3 cannot be used for repair (only SDCµS locos with 21 MTC plug-in decoder can) Even then, when the failure is on the motor control and feedback (not on the decoder but on the loco's PCB) then a mSD3 won't help. What many do is to replace a SDS or Compact Sinus motor with an mechanical fit and then use a "normal" decoder. Try using SBmodelbau https://www.sb-modellbau.com/ Cheers Jean
		My layout videos latest vid marshalling yard My Layout


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franciscohg		#5 Posted : 03 August 2023 20:01:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,274 Location: Patagonia		Hello As said before, if you need to change the decoderon those C sine equipped locos, where the decoder is integrated with the driver board in the same PCB you need to get a 3rd party driver board as Tom said. Those boards are not easy to find, some years ago i made several of those conversion with boards provided by Mr Iten at www.rail4you.ch. They work great. Another option as said by Jean is to get a "normal" for that locomotive at sb modellbau, thenm you can use any decoder you want with no need of a board to drive it. Here the topic has been treated extensively https://www.marklin-user...-ch-DsM-2-0-driver-board Regards
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL

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bph		#6 Posted : 03 August 2023 20:02:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 996		Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Good day experts, as far as you know, is it possible to change the factory decoder installed on this loco? Thank you Marco Yes it is, but you also need a new C-sine driver. eg. one like this: https://www.rail4you.ch/...rung/dsm-2-0-der-treiber And with that driver, you can use a Marklin decoder or ESU etc. a challenge with your locomotive might be the location of the driver and the flat cable between the driver and motor etc. how is the motor wired up today? there are different versions and if it's an old version (doubt it) an adapter might be required.

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Dave Banks		#7 Posted : 03 August 2023 21:31:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,026 Location: Gold Coast, Australia.		I have a Marklin #39572 like the old sinus motor you have. My PCB got fried as you will see in attached pictures. The driver board for the sinus motor is no longer available so I did the next best thing. The photos explain it all: [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] But in the case of 39161 "Crosti" you really need to change this part of the bogie for one that can accommodate the 5 pole motor as it just won't fit unless you do a lot of modifications. Eric "Applor" has done this & this last picture is of his loco. You could ask him advice on the matter. [img][/img]
		D.A.Banks


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Goofy		#8 Posted : 03 August 2023 22:49:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy ESU Loksound 5 support C-sine motor but you must have ESU circuit board install. ESU decoders do not support C-Sine motors directly. You need a motor driver board from Märklin or a third party. ESU do not make such motor driver boards. ESU confirm that Loksound 5 do support C-sine motor directly with already circuit board like Märklin. I thought ESU did made own circuit board specially for the C-sine.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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Dave Banks		#9 Posted : 03 August 2023 23:05:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,026 Location: Gold Coast, Australia.		11.4. Settings for the C-Sine Motors LokSound decoders with the 21MTC interface can drive Softdrive C-Sine motors indirectly via the circuit board installed in the locomotive. The LokSound can generate all necessary signals provided you readjust certain settings: Load compensation must be turned off as described in chapter 11.2. The control electronics of the motor also need a switched logic voltage provided by the LokSound on output AUX4. AUX4 must therefore be active while the locomotive is stopped and while it is moving (in both directions!). Write the values below into the respective CVs. Make sure that CV 31 contains the value 16 and CV 32 the value 2. CV Value CV 257 48 CV 273 48 CV 289 48 CV 305 48 I fitted an ESU Loksound decoder V3.0 M4 to my Marklin #37902 fitted with a Soft drive Sinus motor & with tweaking a few settings it works perfectly on that type of Sinus motor.
		D.A.Banks

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franciscohg		#10 Posted : 04 August 2023 01:11:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,274 Location: Patagonia		Yes, yes, yes.... ESU and other decoders can drive Sinus engines with no problems, provided that you have driver board to control the motor. In newer machines with softdrive there is no problem since that board is on the PCB with the 21MTC interface where you can put any suitable decoder. Older machines with big sinus engine, like the one that originated the thread have that board and the decoder integrated in only one PCB, originating the absolut need of getting a 3rd party board To run the engine with a new decoder. Regards
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL

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applor		#11 Posted : 04 August 2023 04:19:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,654 Location: Brisbane, Queensland		Alternatively you could convert it to maxon motor and use whatever decoder you like: https://www.marklin-user...nco-Crosti---Maxon-motor
		modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany

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ocram63_uk		#12 Posted : 04 August 2023 11:25:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 704 Location: England, Suffolk		All, thank you for your inputs 👍🏻 I'll check if the Swiss seller still has the PCB control boards available and take it from there 😊

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bph		#13 Posted : 04 August 2023 12:05:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 996		Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk All, thank you for your inputs 👍🏻 I'll check if the Swiss seller still has the PCB control boards available and take it from there 😊 Personally, I think it's a good motor and it's worth keeping. Here is my upgrade of the old 39710, with the 1 gen C-sine motor. https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t49115-ICE-S-39710-Sine-C-upgrade--new-msd3-decoder-and-driver--Keeping-the-original-motor

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H0		#14 Posted : 04 August 2023 18:21:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy ESU confirm that Loksound 5 do support C-sine motor directly with already circuit board like Märklin. I thought ESU did made own circuit board specially for the C-sine. Wrong remains wrong, no matter how often you repeat it. ESU decoder can drive the motor "directly" with a motor driver board between decoder and motor, so they only drive it indirectly.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS


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