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Rosscoe		#1 Posted : 05 June 2023 10:02:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/06/2022(UTC) Posts: 45 Location: New South Wales, Sydney		Hi All, I'm trying to identify this decoder. The markings on the PCB are: MTX10 No other markings, it's in a converted 3005 loco. TIA
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heinrichhess		#2 Posted : 05 June 2023 10:56:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		the dial's are for max speed and acceleration delay and pins are to set address and you got motorola logo on it
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Rosscoe		#3 Posted : 05 June 2023 11:01:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/06/2022(UTC) Posts: 45 Location: New South Wales, Sydney		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess the dial's are for max speed and acceleration delay and pins are to set address and you got motorola logo on it Thanks. I'm aware of all that but what decoder is it?
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heinrichhess		#4 Posted : 05 June 2023 11:04:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		i would say old 6090 generation decoders but i quite new so good luck hess
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H0		#5 Posted : 05 June 2023 11:36:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Rosscoe I'm trying to identify this decoder. Not a simple task. The logo on the chip is not Motorola, it is Microchip. It looks like a programmable decoder (PIC) and those programmable decoders typically do not have pots. But who knows. Does not look like a 6090 or 6090x decoder. Does it support DCC? Can you read CV 8?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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kiwiAlan		#6 Posted : 05 June 2023 12:38:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,109 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		It is definitely not a marklin manufactured decoder. It looks like some third party attempt at a 6090 series copy, with the two pots to adjust top speed and acc/dec delay, and the microswitches for address setting. I suspect it is someones home brew decoder, rather than a commercial one, as the soldering does not look like what I would expect for a commercial product, although, having said that, it could be low production volume hand soldering. As Tom (H0) said, the logo is not Motorola, but Microchip, and the chip part number is definitely Microchip. It is also a very old microprocessor as it is a PIC16C family instead of a PIC16F family, so that probably makes the design 20 years old or more.
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Goofy		#7 Posted : 05 June 2023 15:37:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		A warning! Do not use this home made decoder with Märklin system!!! You might destroy digital system. If not less decoder might shut system off.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#8 Posted : 05 June 2023 15:59:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy A warning! Do not use this home made decoder with Märklin system!!! You might destroy digital system. If not less decoder might shut system off. Ah. What do you know about this decoder? It was installed in a Märklin 3005. And Märklin digital controllers have overload protection that should prevent them from destruction.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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heinrichhess		#9 Posted : 05 June 2023 21:24:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		will be interesting to see if dip switches match marklin ID
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H0		#10 Posted : 05 June 2023 21:28:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess will be interesting to see if dip switches match marklin ID Probably not. This decoder uses 8 input pins, allowing 256 switch combinations while Märklin decoders only use 4 input pins, allowing 81 switch combinations.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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pederbc		#11 Posted : 05 June 2023 21:57:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC) Posts: 182 Location: Eslöv, Sweden		Hmmm, 4 binary switches will only provide 16 combinations…
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H0		#12 Posted : 05 June 2023 21:58:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: pederbc Hmmm, 4 binary switches will only provide 16 combinations… Märklin is a ternary system, using trits, not bits.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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pederbc		#13 Posted : 05 June 2023 23:13:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC) Posts: 182 Location: Eslöv, Sweden		So you mean that the switches has 3 states?
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H0		#14 Posted : 05 June 2023 23:40:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: pederbc So you mean that the switches has 3 states? The switches have two states, but there are two switches per decoder input. And that is the source of the 80 address limit. But that is probably off topic, as the decoder discussed here has 8 inputs and not just four.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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kiwiAlan		#15 Posted : 06 June 2023 00:25:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,109 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: pederbc So you mean that the switches has 3 states? The switches have two states, but there are two switches per decoder input. And that is the source of the 80 address limit. But that is probably off topic, as the decoder discussed here has 8 inputs and not just four. It is possible that it encodes in exactly the same way as the standard MM decoder, which does have 8 switches going to 4 pins. To pederbc, note that the marklin decoder switches never have switch pairs both on at the same time. Look at a switch table, at say switches 1 and 2, the valid states are both off, switch 1 on with switch 2 off, or switch 2 on with switch 1 off. The table never defines a state where switch 1 and switch 2 are both on to produce a valid address, as this switch combination shorts out the power supply within the decoder. The same occurs for switches 3 & 4 as a pair, 5 & 6 as a pair, and 7 & 8 as a pair.
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Goofy		#16 Posted : 06 June 2023 08:20:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy A warning! Do not use this home made decoder with Märklin system!!! You might destroy digital system. If not less decoder might shut system off. Ah. What do you know about this decoder? It was installed in a Märklin 3005. And Märklin digital controllers have overload protection that should prevent them from destruction. Decoder seems are home made. Those are always risk and never ever should be use.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Rosscoe		#17 Posted : 06 June 2023 09:24:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/06/2022(UTC) Posts: 45 Location: New South Wales, Sydney		Futher info. It doesn't work on any system. Marklin, DCC or analogue (AC or DC). The motor does work. It's been converted with a permanent magnet so will run with DC applied directly to the brushes. So I'll just replace it with a lokpilot and go from there. Thanks to all anyway. And I doubt that a single loco decoder would damage a control system, both my Marklin and DCC systems have built in protection.
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H0		#18 Posted : 06 June 2023 09:40:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy Decoder seems are home made. Those are always risk and never ever should be use. Never ever trust advice from a stranger. There is always risk of false information. Oh, wait, you are a stranger for me. And I am a stranger for the folks here. Who can I trust here? What if the decoder uploads malware to the controller?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Rosscoe		#19 Posted : 06 June 2023 09:57:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/06/2022(UTC) Posts: 45 Location: New South Wales, Sydney		As closer view of the decoder. The switches are connected in a straight binary fashion. So that gives 255 possible addresses.
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Rosscoe		#20 Posted : 06 June 2023 10:05:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/06/2022(UTC) Posts: 45 Location: New South Wales, Sydney		Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy A warning! Do not use this home made decoder with Märklin system!!! You might destroy digital system. If not less decoder might shut system off. Ah. What do you know about this decoder? It was installed in a Märklin 3005. And Märklin digital controllers have overload protection that should prevent them from destruction. Decoder seems are home made. Those are always risk and never ever should be use. So you're saying I shouldn't use the 10 DCC accessory decoders that I designed and made which have worked flawlessly. Why would a simple loco decoder damage a controller? It's never going to put more back to the controller than what it's getting from the controller. Just because it's home made doesn't mean there's a problem with it. I've had a digitraxx and lokpilot loco decoder both fail and all that happened is that the loco stopped working. Did not even cause a short and shutdown the controller. Other than the soldering on this which looks to be done by hand rather than machine it appears to be well made with good quality components.
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Goofy		#21 Posted : 07 June 2023 07:02:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: Rosscoe So you're saying I shouldn't use the 10 DCC accessory decoders that I designed and made which have worked flawlessly. Why would a simple loco decoder damage a controller? It's never going to put more back to the controller than what it's getting from the controller. Just because it's home made doesn't mean there's a problem with it. I've had a digitraxx and lokpilot loco decoder both fail and all that happened is that the loco stopped working. Did not even cause a short and shutdown the controller. Other than the soldering on this which looks to be done by hand rather than machine it appears to be well made with good quality components. It is difference between manufacture warranty decoder from home made decoder. It´s your own risk and if digital system fail and you have no warrenty that cover. You have still not identify decoder you show up with a picture? No one other did either too.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#22 Posted : 07 June 2023 09:05:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy It is difference between manufacture warranty decoder from home made decoder. It´s your own risk and if digital system fail and you have no warrenty that cover. Actually there is no difference when you buy a loco from second hand: manufacturer warranty typically is expired.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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ocram63_uk		#23 Posted : 07 June 2023 16:24:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 704 Location: England, Suffolk		The question here is: does the loco work with this decoder? Yes, keep decoder No, change decoder The motor has a permanent magnet? Apply dc current to motor and see if it turns. It turns? change decoder with multi protocol Does not turn? motor blocked, fix motor Solution? change decoder, who cares who built it😊 Keep it simple 👍🏻
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Goofy		#24 Posted : 08 June 2023 04:47:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: H0 Actually there is no difference when you buy a loco from second hand: manufacturer warranty typically is expired. We are not discuss about loco. The problem are decoder. A own home made decoder are not trusting and it is difference too if a manufacture decoder was install in the loco instead. That make a sense.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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vmsysprog		#25 Posted : 08 June 2023 20:09:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 60		Interesting that the PIC chip is still manufactured. Being a PIC, it is programmable. Would be interesting to see what the code does. Steve
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