Turnout decoder, mobile station - How can I configure a new digital turnout with an old mobile station Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

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pBonavoglia		#1 Posted : 31 May 2023 17:04:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		I am rebuilding an old Marklin system born in 1957 with M tracks grown through the years and in 2010 enlarged with C tracks and turnouts, digital decoders and the mobile station . Turnout decoders got digital addresses setting 10 pins on the card and the two digitized turnouts worked fine. For lack of space the whole thing was later dismantled and stored into boxes. Now in a new home with space I'm rebuilding and enlarging the whole. I also bought a new turnout with a digital decoder and here comes the bad surprise: the new decoder has a ten pin set like before, but the coding is changed, pin 10 is used to commute from Mmx to CC, the others like binary numbers, different from old coding (2010) . I'm going mad, trying to configure turnouts from the old mobile station, nothing to do, the turnout does not give any sign of lile! The instruction leaflets do not say nothing about this change of protocol and this is very bad! Does somebody know a simple way to fix this problem?
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H0		#2 Posted : 31 May 2023 17:24:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Does somebody know a simple way to fix this problem? It's not a problem. The old turnout decoders come with old coding tables that let you set the address. The new turnout decoders come with new coding tables that let you set the address. Set addresses 1, 2, and 3 and you're done.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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David Dewar		#3 Posted : 31 May 2023 18:16:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		The new decoders for turnouts are mfx and register themselves. I have several new ones including the three way decoder and all register without doing anything.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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H0		#4 Posted : 31 May 2023 18:28:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: David Dewar The new decoders for turnouts are mfx and register themselves. I have several new ones including the three way decoder and all register without doing anything. Do they do that with MS2 also? Or just with CS2 and CS3?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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David Dewar		#5 Posted : 31 May 2023 20:50:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: David Dewar The new decoders for turnouts are mfx and register themselves. I have several new ones including the three way decoder and all register without doing anything. Do they do that with MS2 also? Or just with CS2 and CS3? Good point Tom. No idea as I dont have a MS. May well be with a MS2 you have to set the address manually.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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pBonavoglia		#6 Posted : 31 May 2023 21:14:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Indeed it is a problem : of course the first thing I did was to set the new turnout using the new coding table: pin 1 2 3 on, all others off, that means number 7, but using mobile station and device no 7 the turnout does nothing ... even changing pin 10. I am still in the fog ...
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Goofy		#7 Posted : 31 May 2023 22:55:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Indeed it is a problem : of course the first thing I did was to set the new turnout using the new coding table: pin 1 2 3 on, all others off, that means number 7, but using mobile station and device no 7 the turnout does nothing ... even changing pin 10. I am still in the fog ... What mobil station do you use? MS1 or the new MS2? Pin 10 are to set protocol for the turnout decoder, so if you use MS2 you must set protocol in the MS2 keyboard MM or DCC protocol.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Goofy		#8 Posted : 31 May 2023 22:59:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		Originally Posted by: David Dewar Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: David Dewar The new decoders for turnouts are mfx and register themselves. I have several new ones including the three way decoder and all register without doing anything. Do they do that with MS2 also? Or just with CS2 and CS3? Good point Tom. No idea as I dont have a MS. May well be with a MS2 you have to set the address manually. MS2 cannot register mfx turnout or switch decoder. You must use Pin codes on the m83/m84 if you use MS2 keyboard.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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rhfil		#9 Posted : 31 May 2023 23:25:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC) Posts: 427 Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth		Make certain that you are looking at the pins correctly. The numbers are very small and I once was activating the wrong pins. Also make sure you have thrown the pins completely. Throw them all off or on. I have found that making sure every thing is working correctly by first installing the turnout on a stub avoids tearing it out of a layout. Lastly I would go so far as removing the turnout completely from the layout and attaching it to the MS2 with nothing else and seeing if it works that way. This eliminates all other possible interference.
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pBonavoglia		#10 Posted : 31 May 2023 23:59:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Indeed it is a problem : of course the first thing I did was to set the new turnout using the new coding table: pin 1 2 3 on, all others off, that means number 7, but using mobile station and device no 7 the turnout does nothing ... even changing pin 10. I am still in the fog ... What mobil station do you use? MS1 or the new MS2? Pin 10 are to set protocol for the turnout decoder, so if you use MS2 you must set protocol in the MS2 keyboard MM or DCC protocol. As i wrote it is a MS bought in 2011, no number, so I presume it is MS1. So maybe is that is the problem ? I see everybody here has MS2 ... at least. I did many trials, pin up and down , nothing to do. With the old coding I had no such problem
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H0		#11 Posted : 01 June 2023 08:50:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia As i wrote it is a MS bought in 2011, no number, so I presume it is MS1. MS1 cannot handle turnouts at all, so I presume it is MS2. Four buttons left of the display, four buttons right of it, big red speed knob in the centre under the display, display is white on blue? That is MS2.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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ocram63_uk		#12 Posted : 01 June 2023 09:59:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC) Posts: 704 Location: England, Suffolk		a photo of the MS would clear all doubts 😊
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H0		#13 Posted : 01 June 2023 10:13:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk a photo of the MS would clear all doubts 😊 And maybe a photo of the installed decoder. Turnout decoders usually do not work if red and brown wires have been swapped. Red wire goes to "B" and brown wire goes to "0". Connect brown to "B" and most decoders will fail.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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pBonavoglia		#14 Posted : 01 June 2023 19:17:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia As i wrote it is a MS bought in 2011, no number, so I presume it is MS1. MS1 cannot handle turnouts at all, so I presume it is MS2. Four buttons left of the display, four buttons right of it, big red speed knob in the centre under the display, display is white on blue? That is MS2. On the web I found the same identical booklet, labeled MS2, or instance here: https://issuu.com/modelt...lub/docs/60653manual-eng So I 'm even more puzzled. Shouldn't an MS2 have number 2 on the cover?
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H0		#15 Posted : 01 June 2023 20:02:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Shouldn't an MS2 have number 2 on the cover? No. The info screen should show hardware version 2.0 or 2.1. Mobile Station 1 shows "märklin systems" while Mobile Station 2 shows "märklin digital".
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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pBonavoglia		#16 Posted : 01 June 2023 20:38:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk a photo of the MS would clear all doubts 😊 Here are a few photos
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H0		#17 Posted : 01 June 2023 20:51:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Here are a few photos I only get error 404.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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pBonavoglia		#18 Posted : 01 June 2023 21:23:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk a photo of the MS would clear all doubts 😊 For some reason this system does not show my photos. Too large?
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marklinist5999		#19 Posted : 01 June 2023 21:26:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,136 Location: Michigan, Troy		Doesn't load! Icon just spins
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pBonavoglia		#20 Posted : 01 June 2023 21:35:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		For some reason this system does not show my photos. Only link to photos, just click on them to see them in large. Mobile Station Instructions Pins
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marklinist5999		#21 Posted : 01 June 2023 22:07:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,136 Location: Michigan, Troy		Clearly, you have an MS2.
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pBonavoglia		#22 Posted : 01 June 2023 22:29:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Clearly, you have an MS2. Ok, thank'you, but what it means? Do I have to buy a CS3 to get the new decoders working?
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David Dewar		#23 Posted : 01 June 2023 23:32:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,342 Location: Scotland		Although you will get a lot of help on here I would suggest you buy the Marklin book on their digital system. It covers the MS and CS3 plus all the other digital items and explains how they work and how to connect them. It is a mine of information on Marklin digital.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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marklinist5999		#24 Posted : 01 June 2023 23:57:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,136 Location: Michigan, Troy		The MS2 can control turnout decoders. The issue you have is that yours likely isn't updated with the latest software version, and that can limit what it can do. You need a CS3 to update it, or find someone who has one. However, it's worth a try to put yours into the DCC protocol, and try loading the turnout decoders manually. Not only using the digital book, but referring to Youtube tutorials by "Modeltrainfun", etc. I found him by Googleing "how to" ......... on a Marklin MS2, etc.
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Goofy		#25 Posted : 02 June 2023 06:17:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,019		I must tell to you that never ever have power switch on if you shall switch pin codes in the m83/m84. Märklin recommended it. Read careful manual of the m83 and the MS2.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#26 Posted : 02 June 2023 06:40:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 The issue you have is that yours likely isn't updated with the latest software version, and that can limit what it can do. I don't think that's an issue here if the old turnouts work. Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 You need a CS3 to update it, or find someone who has one. That's not true. @pBonavoglia: You do not show how the new decoder is connected to the track. It will not work if red and brown are swapped or yellow does not connect to "B" (centre rail).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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pBonavoglia		#27 Posted : 02 June 2023 18:14:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 The issue you have is that yours likely isn't updated with the latest software version, and that can limit what it can do. I don't think that's an issue here if the old turnouts work. Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 You need a CS3 to update it, or find someone who has one. That's not true. @pBonavoglia: You do not show how the new decoder is connected to the track. It will not work if red and brown are swapped or yellow does not connect to "B" (centre rail). Ooops the yellow cable! I thought it was there for the light, that was something new and strange. Why two cables, red and yellow, going from the same card to the same potential (B third rail)? It id difficult to guess why, but now it works! And that is what matters. Thank you very much!
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H0		#28 Posted : 02 June 2023 18:47:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Why two cables, red and yellow, going from the same card to the same potential (B third rail)? Yellow is the power for the motor. If you have many turnouts, yellow can be connected to an external power supply to reduce the load on the digital track current.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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kiwiAlan		#29 Posted : 03 June 2023 00:08:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,107 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 You need a CS3 to update it, or find someone who has one. That's not true. I believe he was talking of updating an ms2 Tom, and i would agree that currently access to a cs2 or cs3 is required to do so.
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marklinist5999		#30 Posted : 03 June 2023 14:36:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,136 Location: Michigan, Troy		I knew it Alan!
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H0		#31 Posted : 03 June 2023 14:37:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 You need a CS3 to update it, or find someone who has one. That's not true. I believe he was talking of updating an ms2 Tom, and i would agree that currently access to a cs2 or cs3 is required to do so. The update can be transferred from MS2 to MS2, so neither access to CS2 or CS3 is required to do the update. But it is definitely not true that a CS3 is needed for the update, right?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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marklinist5999		#32 Posted : 03 June 2023 14:55:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,136 Location: Michigan, Troy		Ok, but the transfering MS2 must be updated by a CS2 or 3. He has neither, so he needs someone with a current version MS2 at least.
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pBonavoglia		#33 Posted : 03 June 2023 23:09:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: pBonavoglia Why two cables, red and yellow, going from the same card to the same potential (B third rail)? Yellow is the power for the motor. If you have many turnouts, yellow can be connected to an external power supply to reduce the load on the digital track current. Okay, now having connected the yellow cable to B everything works fine, so I do not need to update to CS3 or MS3. On the contrary it seems that one of my big problems in rebuilding this Marklin system, the tangle of cables needed to control all the switches, now three C-type and ten M-type, may be solved without throwing away all M-tracks and turnouts, and buying the C-equivalent. Using 74491 Electric turnout mechanism for C-track and a 74462 Built-in digital decoder (C-track), the same used for the C-turnout, I was able to digitize an old M.turnout, see photos: M-turnout digitized M-turn is now working I would like to know if someone did the same thing, and how. At first I didn't want to use the soldering iron, for various reasons, but in the end I had to resign myself to it; this is the only way to get good quality contacts. Then I had to play with bits of cardboard and double-sided tape to best position the mechanism. But maybe, opening a new topic is more appropriate,
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pBonavoglia		#34 Posted : 03 June 2023 23:14:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Veneto, Venezia		[
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marklinist5999		#35 Posted : 04 June 2023 16:59:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,136 Location: Michigan, Troy		Glad you sorted it out!
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H0		#36 Posted : 04 June 2023 18:13:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,266 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Ok, but the transfering MS2 must be updated by a CS2 or 3. He has neither, so he needs someone with a current version MS2 at least. The issue was resolved without updating the MS2. There can be a long update chain of MS2s with CS2 or CS3 at the end. Knowing all update options (MS2, CS2, CS3) makes it more likely to happen when an update is needed. But when two decoders work and the third one does not, then it is very likely that it can be resolved without update at all.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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