 Joined: 19/10/2018(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: California, San Diego
|
Hello
I just installed a 3-way turnout with a wire length of about 3m between m83 and the turnout. Of all my 50 turnouts this 3-way turnout is the only turnout this far from the m83. I noticed that the switching (both motors) is quite soft. It works but it just feels that the motors are not as “strong” as the other switching motors.
Anyone has experience with wire distance having an effect on the switching? I am using standard Marklin wires.
Thank you.
tom
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,590 Location: Spain
|
Just use thicker wires!
-And try to use only good copper-wire for that... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland
|
You could use a decoder under the turnout and forget about the wire. Works well with my C track 3 way turnout. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 480 Location: USA
|
M, K or C? 3m is a long distance for 5 thin wires. Get an inexpensive k83 and place below the switch. Use thicker wire to power the decoder. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,887 Location: Michigan, Troy
|
My M83 turnout wires are way longer. I used 22 amd 24 gague agv wire and have no problems. I thought the newer 3-way crossing comes with a built in decoder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,275
|
It’s all matter about power consumption by feed ampere out from the m83. I have no problem by feed my turnout motor analog ac or dc. I use 0,25 mm square. No problem with 2-3 metres distance. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,559 Location: Paris, France
|
Hi
Switch decoders were never meant to be 3 m away from switches.
Better is to have those (switch decoders) distributed under the layout.
The reason is there is some energy storage in the 60832 to deliver a short and powerful command to sw motors.
The plug in of 60832 in one row is non-sensical.
The equivalent form of poor design is to have sensors (60881,..) in close proximity with long wires to the contact rails.
You obtain increased cost (more wire), increased vulnerability to RF noise and inducted noise, messier layout wiring.
Just my opinion.
Cheers
Jean |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,887 Location: Michigan, Troy
|
Whichever workd of course. Note that my M83's (2) are very close to the CS3 and track current, and coupled together. I don't know if that makes any difference.
Two turnouts are nearly 12 feet away.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 19/10/2018(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: California, San Diego
|
Thank you all for your replies. Much appreciated.
While I understand possible inductive disturbance due to the long wires (no issue with resistance thanks to the proper wire gauge), I think the problem is that I may have received a batch of bad motors. I actually have 60 switch motors in total and usually every 4th motor I buy, I end up returning/replacing. Marklin's quality problems have definitely gotten worse over the past few years. So I will try two new replacement motors first. My dealer is very good about replacements as I am a very good customer :-)
A separate issue: 3-ways are tricky (I use them for space savings instead of two regular turnouts) as some locos (even the latest generation) derail - typically only if entering from a specific direction into a specific turn, either left or right); it has to do with some of the sliders that get lifted up by the specific design of the 3-way. Examples are Seetal and Crocodile.
Cheers
|
 1 user liked this useful post by swisslocofan
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,275
|
Märklins magnetic motor are porr and uses with ac power as feeder.
Peco do also have magnetic motor but they draw a hell lot of power, at least about 1,3 Amp!!
M83 can only handle maximum up to 1,0 Amp output (Märklin recommended no overload).
I use Tortoise motor and they works very well at 0,02 Amp current.
|
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,559 Location: Paris, France
|
Originally Posted by: swisslocofan 
While I understand possible inductive disturbance due to the long wires (no issue with resistance thanks to the proper wire gauge), I think the problem is that I may have received a batch of bad motors. I actually have 60 switch motors in total and usually every 4th motor I buy, I end up returning/replacing. Marklin's quality problems have definitely gotten worse over the past few years. So I will try two new replacement motors first. My dealer is very good about replacements as I am a very good customer :-)
A separate issue: 3-ways are tricky (I use them for space savings instead of two regular turnouts) as some locos (even the latest generation) derail - typically only if entering from a specific direction into a specific turn, either left or right); it has to do with some of the sliders that get lifted up by the specific design of the 3-way. Examples are Seetal and Crocodile.
Hi Regarding Switch motor, a book could be written on it. It is untrue to write the quality gotten worse. No. What is aggravating is that those end switches in motors are causing a big problem JUST for the sake of compatibility with analog operation. In digital, they are excellent IF you disable those switches. Of course doing this, you lose any Warranty possibility but IMO it is wort it because often, replacing those motors means a lot of efforts (landscape removal, difficulties on switches located in shadow station). My layout has approx 70 of these switch motors (74491) all micro switches are bridged (short circuited) and being operated by Rocrail, they are used a lot without any failures now. Tortoise motors and similar are OK but huge and noisy and non-compatible with multi level layouts Regarding 3-ways switches (Märklin C-Track) - I have 9 of them, used by many convoys and sliders (I have no experience with non-Märklin sliders and locos) - they are also excellent but to be fair, I had a problem with a brand new Märklin loco and it turned out to be the slider. - sometimes, intermittent shorts may be caused (It happened to me once) by the close proximity between a near-by stud and some non insulated axles. In this case, it is easy to correct, using a heath-shrink tube ( mm diameter or so) as a sock to prevent any wheel to touch the stud. For the fun, here is a heavy used 3'way switch on my layout Cheers Jean |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 09/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 63
|
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 My M83 turnout wires are way longer. I used 22 amd 24 gague agv wire and have no problems. I thought the newer 3-way crossing comes with a built in decoder. I just bought a new three way switch within the last two weeks. It did not come with a decoder. I purchased the decoder and two switch motors. For the 3 way, i would recommend using the decoder vs. the m83. The decoder has built in logic to throw the switches in the right sequence. For example: I’m using the left leg (orientation: the single track is closest to me, the 3 track end is farthest away) of the switch. I decide I want to go down the right leg. The decoder will throw both switches to align the track properly. (Caveat: maybe the m83 can do this, I don’t know, I don’t have one. The few vids I’ve watched regarding the m83 don’t indicate that it can.) Steve
|
1 user liked this useful post by vmsysprog
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
