Hello Marklinists and Eurotrain fans!

So I have been trying to do my homework on some of the history of Dutch trains from around the postwar period to around 1965. My quest started by wanting to have something more interesting to pull for my SEH800 (Class 1300) and my early version of the blue NS1200. (without 1968 logo).

My parents immigrated from the province of Holland in 1954 to Canada, so its something that has been dear to my heart for a long time. On visits back to the Netherlands my Dad picked up some Marklin material. Not much but three locos, one steamer, one electric and one little diesel. Then several years later we built a simple layout with two loops and I was thrilled to set up and use the robust Marklin catenary which run on the second transformer. All of my Christmas gifts went into this. We had one light signal to stop the train, and a three-stall roundhouse, fed by a triple switch. Then I built a crude styrofoam mountain that was never really finished. The trains were not dutch models but of course we made two different Faller windmills—with the motor to turn the sails—one of which still stands on my shelf.

Now in the last year I've discovered the Arcitec models and find them really beautiful and have bought several of the facades as I plan to have a thin Dutch module on my layout, row houses, canal, tracks. However I need help finding any brand of model trains that can be adapted by changing to AC wheels that would look good and prototypically appropriate to run in a city segment within the province of Holland in the Netherlands. That said, I make it difficult for myself since I need to be able to have dates of the prototype and the exact years they might have run, the routes they might have used and as believable as possible the consists to match. I plan to photograph them for a storyline; a kind of photoplay, part of my larger project.

So of course first thing I did was read the wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org...i/Nederlandse_Spoorwegen
I was very surprised to find that "The Dutch rail network is one of the busiest in the European Union, and the third busiest in the world after Switzerland and Japan.[4]"

This list of trains in the Netherlands is also handy:
https://en.wikipedia.org...rains_in_the_Netherlands

Then I found a brief history of the postwar on the NS site:
https://www.ns.nl/en/abo...ory/war-and-mergers.html
I do read general history, but of course there is so much detail when it comes to industrial history, which I find the most fascinating.

And for the record, here is a forum post of the NS 1200 with great photos.
https://www.marklin-user...sts/t33755-NS-Class-1200

So yes, I tried to google for current model offerings of that period, at shops and on ebay.
My reading of Dutch is a bit better than my reading of German, but that is not saying too much, and it helps to have the deepl.com translator on hand. I have joined the dutch 3rail forum, but have not posted yet for fear of my deepl aided dutch putting me in trouble.


All that said, I would like to invite anyone who has an interest in the period of history or knowledge of the models and where they can be purchased to post any informative link and discussion to contribute to this as a topical ongoing thread.

Always wonderful to see what we manage to find here.
Let the games begin! Thank you.
- Mark Five

Thank for you links Tony, they are quite helpful.

I did pick up the Marklin 4049 and 4048 coaches and van but a 4117 seems to be only era 4.

Surprised to see quite a few from Roco in the link you posted.
Will try to see what I can match up.

I did get a couple of the Marklin "Pieter Bon" sets just this weekend, but I am still unsure of when and where they travelled other than in Zaandam where the factory was.

I would like to know if NS passenger trains ever went across the border and if they might have occasionally had mixed trains with DSG or other cars coming in from Germany. I think one of the early catalogs shows a mixed set, but I dont know where the image from the Marklin catalog is anymore.

So there are quite a few items with the modern 1968 NS logo, but much less that models older rolling stock with it.

I might buy a couple of the Aritec NS wagons, they are really interesting. I will post links to those another time.

An interesting article was posted in Fast Company a few years about the design of the new NS trains.
Found this really interesting and innovative an idea. Have you see this?
https://www.fastcompany....e-nicer-than-your-office

Edited by user 24 January 2023 08:18:16(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Going back over this video to catch glimpses of German rolling stock that remained in Holland after the war as well. Great suggestion and yes I will try to find more information concering the international D and F trains of course. I am fascinated to understand how transportation, industry and trade brought unity to Europe in the postwar period especially. And what the barriers were to making international travel, trade and industry happen. The historical lens of our hobby continues to thrill me.

By the way I used the CC with translator, but fun to hear the dutch too.

Since you asked about international passenger trains with Dutch carriages, here are some appetizers:

The rolling stock of the Holland-Italy Express consisted of six different railway administrations. As a night connection with the route Amsterdam - Emmerich - Düsseldorf - Mainz - Mannheim - Basel - Lucerne - Gotthard - Milano - Bologna - Roma, the train took 26 hours and 45 minutes in the winter timetable of 1955 and covered 1,650 kilometres. According to the standard train formation plan of 1955, the Dutch part of the train of the Dutch State Railways NS consisted of a baggage coach, a 2nd class coach and a 1st/2nd class coach and ran as far as Milan.
Source: https://verein-hsf.ch/ge...holland-italien-express/

E 771 / E 784 from Cologne Hbf to Amsterdam CS in 1958: The international train consisted of one German and four Dutch wagons. The German half luggage car, based on a 36-unit express train car, was based at Cologne station. NS probably used 2nd class coaches from the Plan D procurement (More about Plan D carriages: http://www.seinarm.nl/Staal/Plan-D).
Source: https://db58.de/2018/01/...-koeln-hbf-amsterdam-cs/

D 301 / D 302 between Vienna Westbf and Amsterdam CS was listed with Dutch wagon groups. Images of „Zugbildung“: https://db58.de/2009/04/...ze-zugbildung-d301-d302/
Furthermore, here is a D 301 photograph and list of, inter alia, Dutch coaches: https://db58.de/2010/07/02/d-301-bei-karlstadt/

The F 108 Holland-Italia express contained one Dutch coach: http://heinrich-hanke.de...ildung/1958_db_00108.htm

In the 1950s, D 171/172 Hoek van Holland - Kobenhavn had several Dutch coaches: http://heinrich-hanke.de...uege/nordwestexpress.htm

The train consist of the D 263 / D 264 of the NS - Jugoslavia-Express shows Dutch passenger coaches; some images: https://db58.de/2009/07/...ldungsplan-d263-d264-ns/

And finally some information on Plan N cars together with a 1979 photo of a German electric hauling Dutch Plan N cars: http://www.martijnhaman.nl/plann.htm

Interesting topic

A very informative site on Dutch trains (but also from other countries) is www.nicospilt.com.

Click "Start" and then choose "Nederlands materieel" in the menu on the left.

Best regards,
Gregor

Here you go:

Various links:
https://www.floodland.nl/aim/info_draaibrug_1.htm
http://home.kpn.nl/bakk2697/Inleiding2.html
https://www.facebook.com...1336122886426556/?type=3
https://www.railhobby.nl/nederlandse-spoordijk-h0/
https://www.stummiforum....s-Amsterdam-Diorama.html

Video:

When I posted back on the 24th, I was investigating SBB wagons for international traffic.

As it happens I forgot about this topic and have since been through NS wagons that are available.
My interest as mentioned was for epoch IIIa wagons used through Germany which have been identified from the train plans.

My main focus has been the F 251 Austria Express which used NS wagons. I isolated the consist used between Ulm and Mannheim to determine the following wagons were used.
Train plans before 1956 unfortunately did not list wagon types used:

C4ü Ulm BBÖ
AB4ü Ulm BBÖ
ABC4ü Graz BBÖ
Pw4üs Graz Köl
AB4ü Graz NS
C4ü Graz NS
BC4ü Graz BBÖ
ABC4ü Graz Köl
WLABC München CIWL
WLAB München DSG
BC4ü München Köl
C4ü Trieste Köl
AB4ü Trieste SNCB
ABC4ü Trieste Köl

My first find was the AB4ü which could have been a couple of different types. One of these is the 'Ovaalramer' type wagons, with two models from Artitec but very hard to find:

Artitec 20.261.01 - "Ovaalramer" Standgroen, grijs dak, AB7203, 1947-1956, RIC, IIIa
Artitec 20.261.02 - "Ovaalramer" Standgroen, grijs dak, AB7206, 1947-1956, RIC, IIIa



The other type is the already mentioned 'Type D' wagon, called the 'Bolkoppen', round head. Thankfully these were made by Roco and still available.
These are the epoch IIIa variants:
Roco 44294 "Plan D" AB 7404 dark roof (2009)
Roco 74425 "Plan D" AB 7408 aluminium roof (2018)
Roco 74426 "Plan D" AB 7402 aluminium roof (2018)

Roco 44295 "Plan D" A 7401 epoch IIIb
Roco 44385 "Plan D" A 6001 in Berlin Blue epoch IV

---

edit: more information

AB7521-7555 NS
At the end of the 1920s, NS decided to order 35 AB7521-7555 steel D-carriages for domestic and international express trains. The AB7521-7555 ordered from Werkspoor were delivered in 1932 and 1933. The recently delivered oval window carriages served as an example for the design. The differences with these carriages are:

1. The AB7521-7555 is equipped with rectangular windows at the toilets,
2. The AB7521-7555 is welded and not riveted, which gave it a smooth and sleek appearance,
3. The AB7521-7555 got type T bogies with built-in brake work,
4. The AB7521-7555 was built in larger numbers than oval ramers.

Liveries, interior and renovations
The AB7521-7555 have had the following liveries:
1. Olive green (pre-war) with light and dark roof, (1930s/1940s)
2. Stand green with dark gray roofs, (late 1940s/1950s)
3 Berlin blue. (From the mid-1950s)

The AB7521-7555 got a luxurious interior and was therefore suitable for international passenger trains. In 1952 NS converted part of the ABs into third class carriages. With the class downgrading in 1956, the AB's that had not yet been converted became entirely first class and the C's became second class. Finally, 2 AB's have been converted into royal carriages.

---

The NS C4u wagon can be filled by the model:
Exact train EX10011 NS Era IIIa C7155 green, gray roof - Carriage was converted in 1952 from the AB 7521 series to 3rd class.

Same series in AB wagons for IIIa:

Exact train Ex10021 NS Era IIIa AB7542 Silver Roof Olive Green (High Class Signs)
Exact train Ex10023 NS Era IIIa AB7540 Gray Roof Olive Green (High Class Signs)
Exact train Ex10024 NS Era IIIa AB7536 Gray Roof Stand green
Exact train Ex10025 NS Era IIIa AB7545 Gray Roof Stand green



There is a long list of epoch IIIb variants and others:

https://exacttrain.eu/si...0/groep/15/items/18/#199

If you're looking for an actual NS train set, Roco also makes a NS 1200 set, Roco 61449 (DC) 61450 (AC) which is epoch IIIa



There is also the add-on set Roco 64151 - 2 piece set passenger carriages Plan D



Those 2 roco sets with the baggage wagon below (Artitec 20.292.03) would make an excellent 6 wagon NS express train.


I now want to share a picture I have been referencing for these wagons:

"01 034 (Bw Köln Bbf) in front of the F 107 ("Italy-Holland-Express") formed from an international fleet of cars near Düsseldorf-Derendorf. (06/17/1957) Photo: Carl Bellingrodt"



It is of course epoch IIIb but the NS wagons used then were the same as a few years earlier, just after the class change.

What is interesting about this photo though is you can see wagons 2 and 5 are the NS 'Plan D' types I have just listed.

What's more is that the 3rd wagon is actually an NS steel 6 door baggage wagon in turquoise.

The baggage wagon is available in a multitude of variants from Artitec, along with the 4 door variants. A mail wagon is also available. They are hard to find though.
One of the variants, 20.292.03 (3rd one listed) was coloured the same as the wagons in the Roco 61449 set which is slightly darker than the earlier colour.
This is because the original turquoise is no longer with us and Roco decided to use a slightly different tone apparantly after discussions with staff from the NS historical team or such.
Artitec decided to release a variant to match, different from the turquoise used by Philotrain.
The renumbering from D 75xx to D 76xx was carried out in 1952.



steel 6 door variants



Artitec 20.292.01 Steel D 6 d D7523, Artitec turquoise, white roof, IIIa. 1951-1952
Artitec 20.292.02 Steel D 6 d D7625, Artitec turquoise, white roof, IIIa. 1952-1954
Artitec 20.292.03 Steel D 6 d D7625, Roco turquoise (darker), light gray roof, IIIa. matching with Roco set 61449/61450
Artitec 20.293.01 Steel D 6 door blue IIIb/c 1954-1967 box 7621
Artitec 20.293.02 Steel D 6 door blue IIIb/c 1954-1967 box 7624

Artitec 20.296.01 Mail car P7017, Artitec turquoise, white roof, IIIa.
Artitec 20.296.02 Mail car P7901, Artitec turquoise, white roof, IIIa.
Artitec 20.296.03 Mail car P7901, Roco turquoise, light gray roof, IIIa.

steel 4 door variants



https://www.artitecshop..../stalen-d-luggage-wagon/


2011 -
20.241.01 NS D 6061 / olive green / alu roof / Prussian turns. / closed headw./ per II
20.241.02 NS D 6066 / olive green / aluminum roof / Prussian turnst. / closed ends / per II
20.241.03 NS D 6072 / olive green / dark gray roof / Prussian turn. / closed headw./ per II-IIIa
20.241.04 NS D 6076 / olive green / dark gray roof / Prussian turnst. / closed headw./ per II-IIIa
20.242.03 NS D 6312 / stand green / gray roof / Prussian turnst. / closed headw./ per III
20.242.04 NS D 6315 / stand green / gray roof / Prussian turnst. / closed headers/ per III
20.243.01 NS D 7603 / olive green / aluminum roof / Prussian turnst. / old folding / per II
20.243.02 NS D 7601 / olive green / aluminum roof / Prussian turnst. / old folding / per II
20.243.03 NS D 7602 / olive green / dark gray roof / Prussian turnst. / old folding / per II-IIIa
20.243.04 NS D 7606 / olive green / dark gray roof / Prussian turnst. / old fold./ per II-IIIa
20.246.01 NS D 7603 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O bogie / old fold./ per III
20.246.02 NS D 7619 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O bogie / new fold. / per III
20.246.03 NS D 7605 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / old folding / per III
20.246.04 NS D 7618 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / new folding / per III
20.246.05 NS 51 84 95-40 005-4 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / old folding / per IV
20.246.06 NS 51 84 95-40 017-9 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / new folding/ per IV
20.246.07 NS 51 84 95-40 003-9 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / old folding/ per IV
20.246.08 NS 51 84 95-40 007-0 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / new folding / per IV
20.248.01 NS 51 84 95-40 001-3 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / old folding / per IV
20.248.02 NS 51 84 95-40 008- 8 / Berlin blue / gray roof / O-bogie / new folding / per IV

2012
20.241.03 NS D 6072, olive green, dark gray roof, Prussian bogie, closed end wall, per. II
20.241.04 NS D 6076, olive green, dark gray roof, Prussian bogie, closed end wall, per. II
20.243.01 NS D 7603, olive green, alu roof, Prussian bogie, old bellows, per. II
20.243.02 NS D 7601, olive green, alu roof, Prussian bogie, old bellows, per. II
20.243.03 NS D 7602, olive green, dark gray roof, Prussian bogie, old bellows, per. II
20.243.04 NS D 7606, olive green, dark gray roof, Prussian bogie, old bellows, per. II
20.246.07 NS 51 84 95-40 003-9, Berlin blue, gray roof, O-bogie, old bellows, per. IV
20.246.08 NS 51 84 95-40 007-0, Berlin blue, gray roof, O-bogie, new bellows, per. IV


I know there will be other NS wagons out there.

edit: I have since been told:
Much information about Dutch carriages can be found at seinarm.nl and at Martijn Haman .
Information about Dutch carriages in model can be found at NL in Model .

I am yet to look myself, blocked from work.

Edited by user 25 October 2023 08:35:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I did discuss in my post about the turquoise colour used for that set and even gave a colour comparison photo - it is a bit different than the previous (as you say looks somewhat olive green) but it is always turquoise - there are no variations. That is why artitec released one of their 6 door baggage in the dark Roco turquoise so it would match the set.

The Roco AB round head wagons are available on ebay and priced normally. Everything else is more expensive.
There are 4 door baggage wagons available on artitec store and a 6 door on ebay at the moment. There are plenty of AB wagons from exact train available on their website, depending on variant.
Artitec oval doors are impossible.

I would rather convert 2 rail to 3 rail than try and run two systems and I have done it many times - but that's my preference. I've never had any real issues with DC wagons on my K track.