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Offline europromo  
#1 Posted : 12 June 2022 14:44:43(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
I just bought a Märklin 2868 Lufthansa Airport Express set with BR 103 Electric loco + 3 coaches. The BR 103 loco (Märklin, Koll's # 3357.10) does seem to get power (directional switch works), but no lights or movement. I oiled the motor (5-pole), and it turns freely with the thumb on the wheels, any suggestions?
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 12 June 2022 15:46:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,923
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: europromo Go to Quoted Post
I just bought a Märklin 2868 Lufthansa Airport Express set with BR 103 Electric loco + 3 coaches. The BR 103 loco (Märklin, Koll's # 3357.10) does seem to get power (directional switch works), but no lights or movement. I oiled the motor (5-pole), and it turns freely with the thumb on the wheels, any suggestions?


Hoe easy is it to turn the motor by turning the wheels? If it is real easy, then I would suspect a lack of brushes, but this wouldn't match with having no lights unless both light bulbs are blown (always a possibility).

I think this loco has a reverse unit where the actuator pushes a pin into a plate that toggles to each side. Make sure the plate is returning to the position where it contacts one of the two fixed contacts. You will see what I mean when you look closely at it. As the actuator pin pushes the toggle piece it tilts it so that it no longer makes contact to stop the loco leaping when the reverse voltage is applied, then when the actuator retracts the toggle should make contact to allow the loco to move. It can get sticky and not make contact.

if that looks alright then check the two wires coming from the motor magnet to the brush holder. It is possible for the fine enamel coated wire to break. also check the two wires coming from the magnet to the reverse unit. Easiest way to check is probably an ohm meter, or if you don't have one a battery and a bulb (e.g. a 9V battery and a loco headlight bulb) to see if each winding is continuous.

I suspect the fault you are seeing may be why the set has been sold BigGrin Blushing

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Offline europromo  
#3 Posted : 12 June 2022 16:47:25(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
Thx for your suggestions. I already tried most of these things, to no avail. I guess I can check the wiring with an ohm meter.

This loco also has a little electronic board that I have not seen before, assume that this is for the electronic speed control with load compensation or anti-wheel slip control...

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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2022 17:07:55(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,699
Location: Michigan, Troy
The motors with speed and load/ brake delay compensation had a smll silver potentiometer screw for each, so 2. The 5 star motors were first 5 pole analog, or digital, so if it's a digital model, it should have 8 dip switched to set the address.
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Offline europromo  
#5 Posted : 12 June 2022 18:05:45(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
This is what I am looking at:IMG_5897.jpgIMG_5896.jpg
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 12 June 2022 18:51:21(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,120
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: europromo Go to Quoted Post
This loco also has a little electronic board that I have not seen before, assume that this is for the electronic speed control with load compensation or anti-wheel slip control..

I may be wrong of course but this loco is equipped with an electronic inverter unit consisting of one relay (seems to work fine) and one electronic unit intended at suppressing the typical jerk when activating the over-voltage. The unit was also there to stop the flash on headlamps.
This has nothing to do with 5 stars motors
If this unit is faulty then, no motor and no headlights.
At this stage you may look for an electronic inverter unit or bypass it by wiring directly the inductor coil to the relay and also the headlights
In this case, like on older locos, you will have the "boxsprung" (jump when sending a 24 V impulse) and the flash on headlights.

Märklin did 2 versions of this
- earlier version like yours made of one classic relay and a small electronic module like this one https://www.ebay.de/itm/36386523...eeade:g:Mv8AAOSwvoVibsfl
- a later version all "solid-state"

I am not sure but the bulbs may be different using a lower voltage because of the "Vorschaltelectronik". No big deal but just don't let too bright lamps that may harm the "light conductor"
***Corrections***
So to bypass the "electronic selector" (Vorschaltelektronik), you need to disconnect the red wire between the selector and the motor and connect the motor directly to the overhead/slider SPDT
For the headlamps (green and blue wires) I am not sure how they were connected. It seems they were both illuminated no matter the direction and powered by the selector. You may change this byt wiring BOTH lamps to the overhead selector on one side and the other pole of each lamp to the inverter relay contacts (each lamp to a contact) in parallel with the induction coils
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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H0
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 12 June 2022 19:03:20(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,603
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: europromo Go to Quoted Post
I oiled the motor (5-pole)
I'm pretty sure there is only a three-pole motor on the photos.
No load regulation, no acceleration delay, no extra gimmicks.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline europromo  
#8 Posted : 12 June 2022 20:20:45(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments.

The manual says it is a 5-pole motor, but what do I know, this whole thing is getting way to complex for me. I'm not good at electrics/electronics, and expected this train to run as it was offered as new (it is optically like new). I would therefore like to keep but get the loco to run w/o any major rewiring or replacement of parts.

I can deal with the older analogue locomotives (mostly gunked-up motors that will run again with some cleaning & oil), and have not had any issues with newer digital locos (except gunked-up motor), but have never seen this combination of mechanical directional switch with some kind of electronics board.Confused





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Offline mvd71  
#9 Posted : 12 June 2022 21:15:25(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,476
Location: Auckland,
The issue will be the electronic board you can see in the middle of the loco, they do fail with age even when a loco has never been used.

Best to look on eBay for a replacement, or just remove the board and wire it conventionally. If you remove the board you will need to replace the lamps too, because they are most likely 1.2V lamps.

If you have a five pole motor as you suspect, you could also look for the circuit board that was used with those motors (I think I may have one somewhere but I’d need to check).

Cheers….

Mike
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Offline europromo  
#10 Posted : 12 June 2022 21:23:23(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
Thx Mike, maybe I have to have it converted to digital...
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Offline Bryan  
#11 Posted : 12 June 2022 22:20:30(UTC)
Bryan

Australia   
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Your loco has the original electronic type reverse unit.This was a combination of a standard reverse unit with added electronics. The electronic section is notorious for breaking down, just with age. The usual solution is to replace the reversing section with a later 614860 reverse unit, which Marklin did in production. These are only available secondhand, now. However are very robust and can be used on the old blue transformers. It is the preferred option of diehard Marklin analogue enthusiasts.

There are then digital replacement options, the 60760 being the cheapest, assuming your loco has a drum commutator motor, which is usually the case with the stated reverse unit you have.

David
PS Your loco does have a drum comm motor.
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Offline europromo  
#12 Posted : 12 June 2022 23:34:36(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
Thx for the info, looks like I will need to do some soldering...
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 13 June 2022 09:39:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,603
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: europromo Go to Quoted Post
The manual says it is a 5-pole motor
Does it?
Sometimes Märklin manuals cover four or more different models with different motors and different capabilities.
Not easy to pick the information that corresponds to the loco you actually have.
So if the manual has other ref. numbers beside 2868 on the cover page, then be warned that some information will not apply to model 2868.

Edit: Found a photo on the web. It seems the manual for 2868 shows the numbers "3357, 3358, 3558, 3657, 3658" on the cover page.
3558 has a five-star motor, but this part of the manual is not relevant for 2868.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Online PJMärklin  
#14 Posted : 13 June 2022 12:49:57(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,093
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: europromo Go to Quoted Post
The manual says it is a 5-pole motor


Hi Promo,

I too have the Märklin 2868 Lufthansa Airport Express set containing the DB BR 103
(Koll's #3357.10), road number 103 101.


UserPostedImage


I can assure you that it has a three-pole DCM motor, since I have changed the motor from three to five
pole (with a 60941 kit) when also converting the loco from analogue to digital with an ESU Lokpilot 4.0.

I attach below the exploded diagram for a 3357 which clearly shows a three pole motor.

Regards,

PJ

3357_explo .pdf (114kb) downloaded 28 time(s).

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Offline egonzinc  
#15 Posted : 03 August 2022 04:00:31(UTC)
egonzinc

Puerto Rico   
Joined: 04/07/2013(UTC)
Posts: 6
I’m sure you checked the piece that connects the power either from the wheels or the pantograph. But never hurts to check. In some old models you get oxidation in the metal and even if it is placed in the correct possition, you get no connection/ power.
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Offline mike c  
#16 Posted : 03 August 2022 08:00:50(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,443
Location: Montreal, QC
You could check with Ormandy's (Medina) or with Robbie's (Columbus) to see what help they can offer.

Here are a few things that you can test:

You said the directional switch works, but no lights or power. Does the switch (solenoid) work when the reverse pulse is activated or only by manual activation (hand)?

Make sure that the power switch is set to rail and not to catenary? Make sure there is no corrosion on the power switch contacts. You can also try powering via the catenary connection. This would allow you to bypass the slider. If the motor is powered, you will have narrowed down the issue to the slider connection.

Models from that era have been known to have issues with hardened oil. If that was the case, the lights would most likely still be working and the wheels would not turn freely.

You should check the wires that connect the ground (brown) return from the circuit to the locomotive chassis.

Regards,

Mike C
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Offline europromo  
#17 Posted : 04 August 2022 01:02:56(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
Thanks for the suggestion. I have already ordered the Marklin 60760: High Performance Digital Retrofit Set to upgrade the loco to digital.
Offline europromo  
#18 Posted : 04 August 2022 01:06:57(UTC)
europromo

United States   
Joined: 12/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 30
Location: Massillon, OH
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
You could check with Ormandy's (Medina) or with Robbie's (Columbus) to see what help they can offer.

Here are a few things that you can test:

You said the directional switch works, but no lights or power. Does the switch (solenoid) work when the reverse pulse is activated or only by manual activation (hand)?

Make sure that the power switch is set to rail and not to catenary? Make sure there is no corrosion on the power switch contacts. You can also try powering via the catenary connection. This would allow you to bypass the slider. If the motor is powered, you will have narrowed down the issue to the slider connection.

Models from that era have been known to have issues with hardened oil. If that was the case, the lights would most likely still be working and the wheels would not turn freely.

You should check the wires that connect the ground (brown) return from the circuit to the locomotive chassis.

Regards,

Mike C


Thanks for the suggestion. You are correct, I need to check out Ormandy's, but I'm afraid I'd leave there a fortune poorer...

I did all the tests and the issue has been boiled down to the electronic circuit that has a propensity to fail. I have already ordered the Marklin 60760: High Performance Digital Retrofit Set to upgrade the loco to digital (my first).



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Offline marklinist5999  
#19 Posted : 04 August 2022 14:13:07(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,699
Location: Michigan, Troy
Tom, I met and bought my "37080 br 10 steamer, and 39355 OBB Taurus Loco's from John Ormandy in 2002. So I left a small fortune poorer, but the experience was nice! We chatted a while and I learned from him that the old Orient Express actually went all the way to Bahgdad.
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