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Offline Itareus  
#1 Posted : 23 July 2018 12:43:14(UTC)
Itareus

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: England, Doddington
Hi,

First visit here so be kind !

I have a CS2 purchased about a year ago which seems to be just fine, but using Android mobile phones is proving to be a major disaster.

Initially with the Marklin Software option, and when that failed to work, with Remote CS2. I did have some success (with the help the author) using Remote CS2 late Sept 17 but with the onset of Winter and the arrival of a big garden building I have had very little time to get things running and have has no (Zero) luck.

Can anybody help with this please, all I want to do is enable Android phones to be 'remote controllers' for locos, just select loco, start & drive, stop loco. No much to ask for in this digital age I would of thought.

Yours in anticipation.

Thanks

Chris
Offline jerdenberg  
#2 Posted : 24 July 2018 08:57:16(UTC)
jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Hi Chris,

Welcome to the forum!

My set-up is similar to yours (CS2 and – since about a month – an Android mobile phone [Samsung Galaxy A3 2017). I have been able to run RemoteCS2 alright, but the app did not find the CS2 automatically on first use, even with the settings described in the RemoteCS2 documentation [CAN broadcast settings], while the CS2.exe program on my PC and Windows tablets does find the CS2 automatically. I had to look up the IP of the CS2 and enter that in RemoteCS2. I did not yet use RemoteCS2 very often, as I can easily see the whole of my layout from my desk, so I tend to use the CS2.exe on my PC by default.

When I tested whether RemoteCS2 still works this morning, I started it while the CS2.exe was already running on my PC. RemoteCS2 found the CS2 without asking for input.

If you need more info, just ask :)

Jeroen


Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Offline Webmaster  
#3 Posted : 24 July 2018 15:41:20(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,154
The Märklin Mobile station app works for me...

The CAN gateway settings should be something like this, in my case my home network is in the 192.168.0.x IP range.

CS2_IP_GW.jpg


And the CS2 is set to have a fixed IP address.

CS2_IP_settings.jpg
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Itareus  
#4 Posted : 25 July 2018 09:10:06(UTC)
Itareus

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: England, Doddington
Hi, Thanks for the replies, I have the locos running directly from the CS2 controller more reliably now with a fixed IP 192.168.0.100. but whatever I do (including using other IPs) remote CS2 now refuses to recognise the handset (phone or tablet).

I've been struggling with this problem for so long that I'm probably blind to an obvious fault/setting that is staring me in the face.

I would welcome any further suggestions.

Cheers

Chris
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 25 July 2018 13:12:31(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,817
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Itareus Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Thanks for the replies, I have the locos running directly from the CS2 controller more reliably now with a fixed IP 192.168.0.100. but whatever I do (including using other IPs) remote CS2 now refuses to recognise the handset (phone or tablet).

I've been struggling with this problem for so long that I'm probably blind to an obvious fault/setting that is staring me in the face.

I would welcome any further suggestions.

Cheers

Chris


Hi Chris,

First obvious question, have you updated the CS2 Firmware to the latest version? I don't use my CS2 very often but when I do the mobile works fine.

One other thing is that if you've been battling with it for a long time you've possibly also tried a number of various settings and changes and it may well be a good move to perform a full factory reset and start from scratch, this should restore everything to the factory defaults and can fix all manner of weird issues.

It's largely academic whether you do the reset first and then the firmware upgrade or vice-versa but if I had to make a choice, personally I'd go for the reset first, only if for no other reason than to be sure there was nothing that might prevent the update itself from proceeding normally however others may have a different view. Peter clapcott Offline has had a lot of experience with this and may also have a contribution to offer.

Don't overlook your Router also, many a weird connectivity issue has been resolved with a simple Router reboot!!

Good luck, many of us know just how frustrating and time-consuming issues like this can be.

Regards

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Itareus  
#6 Posted : 02 August 2018 20:42:14(UTC)
Itareus

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: England, Doddington
Hi all, this is just a quick note to say thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I've not yet been able to try most of them but this coming weekend (SWMBO permitting) may be an opportunity !

Cheers

Chris
Offline Ukjim  
#7 Posted : 21 June 2022 01:35:50(UTC)
Ukjim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 14/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: England, Corby Glen
Thought I would provide a little more info regarding my findings on the use of RemoteCS2 or RemoteCS3 and something I discovered that provided better reliability connecting the RemoteCS2 app to my Marklin Central Station 2.

I'll explain my setup.
Railway is in the top end of the garden about 20-30 metres away from the house.
I have a BT Smart Hub 2 for my broadband access, and this gives 2.4GHz and 5GHz wifi bands. (Its located in an upstairs window of my house to give a low/medium strength signal to the bottom end of the garden), but its not quite good enough for the full distance.

I bought a TP-Link AC750 Universal Dual Band Range Extender from Amazon to provide better signal at the end of the garden, so as I can use my Android Samsung Galaxy S10Plus phone to run RemoteCS2 to control my trains.
I chose this TP-Link AC750 wifi repeater after careful consideration, reading reviews and it provides a good strong signal at the railway which is about 30metres away.

I also use TP-Link Powerline adapters to network over the mains circuit of my house. But when I tried using them to provide a wired network port in the furthest reach of the garden for my CS2, to go through the 240v mains wiring that daisy-chains from the house distribution board, outside to a workshop, then a second shed (aka "The Ticket Office"), then to a third shed (aka "The Engine Shed" where my CS2 controls the trains), the TP-Link Powerline transmissions thru the mains circuit fail to go further than the Ticket Office. For some reason it doesn't like something about a small distribution board in the Ticket Office, even though everything is earthed, wired correctly, tests ok, and electrician approved using fused-spurs, etc. Hence why I chose to try using the Wifi Extender as an alternative means.

My Marklin Central Station 2 recently is updated to latest software version.
The wi-fi extender repeats the wifi signal with its SID (wifi name) with "_EXT" added to the end, e.g. my wi-fi is called "pitlane-SH2" and extends as "pitlane-SH2_EXT".

Importantly the wi-fi extender also has a RJ45 network cable port on the bottom, where I can connect a network cable from my Central Station 2 into the wi-fi extender.

I have set the CS2 to use Auto-DHCP (to request a dynamically assigned IP address from the wifi extender), and CAN is set to "broadcast" and the CAN broadcast mask is set to "192.168.1.255". After setting these I reboot the CS2. When it restarts typically the IP address it gets is 192.168.1.231.

IMPORTANT: I had to ensure I connect my phone to the extended wi-fi, e.g. the wi-fi with "_EXT" on the end, because the physical cable from the CS2 is plugged directly into the port on the wi-fi extender.
If my phone connects to the usual wi-fi name (pitlane-SH2 which is transmitted by the Smart Hub 2 router) my phone is unable to find/connect to the CS2. I must admit that I expected it to be able to hook up with the CS2 regardless of which wi-fi SID I connect to (as long as it is in range).

A useful utility app I installed on my phone is called PingTools (www.pingtools.org) which is good for monitoring the devices in your network and you can use it to check if your central station is registered on your network and what IP address it is using. Look for a device named "Kitron UAB" (this the manufacturer of the Marklin central stations). The IP address should correspond to the IP shown in the CS2 network information. It is the address that RemoteCS2 should search for and show in the "Select another CS2" function.

So now to the problem:-
Often after turning everything on and the CS2 boots up and I connect my phone to the correct wi-fi, things would initially connect up to the CS2 and work fine, but after a while and without any discernible reason, the RemoteCS2 app would just stop controlling the train. (I kept wondering if my phone had changed the wifi network due to different signal strength? Or that something in the CS2 was resetting, or the CAN broadcast wasn't going across the network?).

Trying to re-select the CS2 in RemoteCS2 would show "(in use)" beside my CS2 in the list of available devices, but gave an error message saying:-
"Selected Marklin CS2 is not available in your local network. Make sure 'broadcast' on the CS2 (Setup->CAN) is activated! If option is already activated please use the IP Address 255.255.255.255 as the target address and reboot the Marklin CS2!"

I tried making the CAN broadcast mask 255.255.255.255, then rebooted the CS2. This seemed to fix things again, but alas it would fail again some time later, regardless of whether the CAN broadcast mask was 192.168.1.255 or 255.255.255.255. Made no difference!

Out of interest I also tried installing and using the RemoteCS3 version of the app, and to my surprise this was also able to connect to my CS2! However after a while RemoteCS3 also failed in the same way.

After a couple of days trying to use the app and constantly encountering problems I was getting pretty frustrated. Having to reboot the CS2 to get things working again seemed to just be a waste of time.

A hunch came to me that perhaps the problem lies with the fact the CS2 is connected directly to the wi-fi extender.
So I inserted a cheap simple 5-port network hub between the two. I used a TP-Link TL-SG1005D, 5 Port Gigabit Ethernet Network Switch from Amazon which cost just over £10.

BINGO! As soon as I powered up the network hub and rebooted the CS2, then connected my phone to the _EXT wi-fi and ran RemoteCS2, it discovered the CS2, and said "Connected to CS2", and seemed to be working much faster and more reliably.

So I did a few tests to try to break it again, exiting RemoteCS2 nicely, or killing the app off, multiple times, it just kept connecting back up to the CS2 quickly and smoothly. Its all working remarkably well. Hooray!
Even when I used another older phone this also worked properly. I also discovered that connecting to the non-extended wi-fi this also was now "seeing" the CS2, and RemoteCS2 was able to operate trains, although it was slightly slow or glitchy due to the weaker signal strength.

If you are connecting your CS2/CS3 network cable directly into one of the RJ45 ports on your main router you probably are already working fine, but if you use a wi-fi extender and experiencing problems, try adding a network hub into the equation as I suspect this helps transmission of the CAN broadcast.

Another thing to note for those trying to use a fixed IP address, I read somewhere that the Manual IP address is only a temporary setting for that power session, and regardless when the CS2 is rebooted, it will always use Auto-DHCP to get the initial IP address. I think this means you would have to remember to set manual IP address for each operating session after switching on, and this takes effect when you click the tick. I tried this and using PingTools, refreshing its view it showed the CS2 getting a DHCP address to start, then only changing to fixed IP once you manually set it.

Hope this helps someone.
Jim
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 21 June 2022 12:04:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,929
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

Another thing to note for those trying to use a fixed IP address, I read somewhere that the Manual IP address is only a temporary setting for that power session, and regardless when the CS2 is rebooted, it will always use Auto-DHCP to get the initial IP address.


I doubt that is the case, and certainly should not work that way. If that is happening it sounds like someone forgot to save their settings.

Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 21 June 2022 14:15:20(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,128
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Itareus Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

First visit here so be kind !

I have a CS2 purchased about a year ago which seems to be just fine, but using Android mobile phones is proving to be a major disaster.

Initially with the Marklin Software option, and when that failed to work, with Remote CS2. I did have some success (with the help the author) using Remote CS2 late Sept 17 but with the onset of Winter and the arrival of a big garden building I have had very little time to get things running and have has no (Zero) luck.

Can anybody help with this please, all I want to do is enable Android phones to be 'remote controllers' for locos, just select loco, start & drive, stop loco. No much to ask for in this digital age I would of thought.

Yours in anticipation.

Thanks

Chris

Hi Chris
Welcome to the forum.
I have used a CS2 with the iPhone app (Mobile station and central station) and here are the few things I have learned to have a stable functionning:
- set a MANUAL IP address (I use 192.168.0.23)
- set the other address (CAN-Gateway) on your CS2 to 192.168.0.255 in Broadcast mode
No need to change anything on your router.
- use a normal WIFI router to connect your CS2 to the router using an Internet (RJ45) cable no matter if normal or crossed (modern equipment do the change since at least 10 years)

Of course I cannot say anything about the Android app (I have only an iPhone and iPad.
The apps I used are not available anymore on the App Store even if they work also to some extent with the CS3 (that I use now)
MainStationApp IMG_0394.PNG



Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
Offline Ukjim  
#10 Posted : 21 June 2022 21:14:21(UTC)
Ukjim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 14/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: England, Corby Glen
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

Another thing to note for those trying to use a fixed IP address, I read somewhere that the Manual IP address is only a temporary setting for that power session, and regardless when the CS2 is rebooted, it will always use Auto-DHCP to get the initial IP address.


I doubt that is the case, and certainly should not work that way. If that is happening it sounds like someone forgot to save their settings.


Yes Alan, strange isn't it!
I knew I had read it somewhere fairly authoritative, see the following pic of the Help screen in my CS2 network setup page (I wonder if it says the same on a CS3/CS3+?). As I mentioned my CS2 is on the latest version available.

Cs2-IP-Address-Help-page-20220621_174128.jpg

The text of the Help screen is as follows....

"If you connect the Central Station to a network, in which a DHCP server is working, the Central Station will have a network address assigned to it when you boot it up.
This is then displayed in the field "CS-IP Address".

If you connect the Central Station to a network, in which there is not a DHCP server working, the Central Station assigns itself a network address. This is then displayed in the field "CS-IP Address".

In principle, the network address can be changed manually. The change takes effect immediately.

When the Central Station is started again, it will always work as described above, regardless of whether an address has been assigned manually."


Now what do you say? Huh LOL

So when booting it will either get a DHCP address, or invent its own address!! This second screenshot was taken after a test by first disconnecting the network cable and then rebooting the CS2. It couldn't find a DHCP server and so created a bizarre IP address and mask completely unrelated to the router/gateway. Well - what else could it do?

IP: 169.254.149.105
Network Template (mask): 255.255.0.0
IP Gateway: <empty>
DNS Server: 192.168.1.254 (well at least it got that bit correct, but probably saved from a previous session)

Cs2-Self-assigned-IP-address-20220621_175317.jpg

So I stand by my point that (for a CS2) after a reboot you need to check and re-assign the address if you wish to use a manual/fixed/static address.
And it does work as stated when choosing Manual, then entering a new valid IP, then clicking the tick to accept the changes. PingTools shows the address change is reflected on the network about 10-30 seconds later.

To be fair pulling out the cable is not quite the same as disabling DHCP, so maybe there is a subtle difference that allows the CS2 to re-use a previously stored IP (if it is ever actually stored?) when it detects normal network operation but no DHCP.
That last sentence in the help is such an odd thing to do "when started again it works as described regardless of a manually assigned address".

No wonder it confuses folk if it still behaves as stated in the Help (which it still appears to according to my testing). As mentioned in my previous post I used PingTools to scan the network and display the CS2 IP address, waiting long enough for it to update between each test change. It would be useful to know if the CS3/CS3+ behave the same and whether the Help screen is different. Maybe the Help is outdated?

I don't have access to a CS3 so cannot speak for that case.

Any thoughts?
Jim
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 21 June 2022 22:59:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,128
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jim
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post
So I stand by my point that (for a CS2) after a reboot you need to check and re-assign the address if you wish to use a manual/fixed/static address.
And it does work as stated when choosing Manual, then entering a new valid IP, then clicking the tick to accept the changes. PingTools shows the address change is reflected on the network about 10-30 seconds later.

I disagree. When you set a CS2 or CS3 in IP manual mode, the address remains unchanged for months if not years. After a new update you may need to check the address
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post
To be fair pulling out the cable is not quite the same as disabling DHCP, so maybe there is a subtle difference that allows the CS2 to re-use a previously stored IP (if it is ever actually stored?) when it detects normal network operation but no DHCP.
That last sentence in the help is such an odd thing to do "when started again it works as described regardless of a manually assigned address".

No question the address is stored by the CS2 and may only be changed /altered if you set it in Auto mode. In this mode (DHCP, the CS2 requests an address that is updated and stored.

Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post
No wonder it confuses folk if it still behaves as stated in the Help (which it still appears to according to my testing). As mentioned in my previous post I used PingTools to scan the network and display the CS2 IP address, waiting long enough for it to update between each test change. It would be useful to know if the CS3/CS3 behave the same and whether the Help screen is different. Maybe the Help is outdated?

I am not sure what you feel is wrong in the user's manual and in which language. Nothing is in my opinion in the German version I use. I use a laptop connected to the WiFi router by WiFi (of course) and the 2 addresses need to be stable so that you don't need to do ANY adjusment when using Rocrail (in my case). The Router is standard, without any specific configuration, I asked it ONCE an IP address, using DHCP. Then I stored this address in the CS2 (CS3 in my case now), changed the CS into MANUAL so that the IP address remains always the same. I can confirm both CS2 and CS3 behave the same (I have both), only the setting screens are different.
I agree the help provided on its screen by the CS2 and CS3 is crap especially in other (non-German) languages. Even my Rocrail is set to German to avoid crap translations.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 22 June 2022 12:51:13(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,929
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

So when booting it will either get a DHCP address, or invent its own address!! This second screenshot was taken after a test by first disconnecting the network cable and then rebooting the CS2. It couldn't find a DHCP server and so created a bizarre IP address and mask completely unrelated to the router/gateway. Well - what else could it do?

IP: 169.254.149.105
Network Template (mask): 255.255.0.0
IP Gateway: <empty>
DNS Server: 192.168.1.254 (well at least it got that bit correct, but probably saved from a previous session)


That is a standard 'dummy' address that any device in DHCP mode will set if not connected to a DHCP server. It may also be the address shown in manual mode before a proper IP address is entered.

To set a static IP address and have it saved you must be in manual mode, not DHCP mode.

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Offline Ukjim  
#13 Posted : 22 June 2022 23:16:51(UTC)
Ukjim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 14/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: England, Corby Glen
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

So when booting it will either get a DHCP address, or invent its own address!! This second screenshot was taken after a test by first disconnecting the network cable and then rebooting the CS2. It couldn't find a DHCP server and so created a bizarre IP address and mask completely unrelated to the router/gateway. Well - what else could it do?

IP: 169.254.149.105
Network Template (mask): 255.255.0.0
IP Gateway: <empty>
DNS Server: 192.168.1.254 (well at least it got that bit correct, but probably saved from a previous session)


That is a standard 'dummy' address that any device in DHCP mode will set if not connected to a DHCP server. It may also be the address shown in manual mode before a proper IP address is entered.

To set a static IP address and have it saved you must be in manual mode, not DHCP mode.



Thanks Jean and Alan
I believe you are right about the CS2 storing the manual IP address.
I've been doing quite a lot more testing this evening using ONLY the MANUAL mode, just to confirm I'm not losing my marbles!

Are you absolutely sure your CS2/CS3 is doing as you say? Because I find that sometimes the IP address screen does not update to show the real live IP address. It also depends on how your server/routers DHCP is configured. I presume you do have DHCP active?

My initial issue and reason why I wanted to suggest why some people have trouble setting a Manual/Static/Fixed IP is that the Help screen shown in my photo says that when the CS2 is started then DHCP is always used to get an IP address even if Manual mode is set. My tests show me that on reboot it is doing exactly that.

If DHCP service is available, it uses it to get an address from the router, regardless of the IP address set in the CS2.

My router (Smart Hub 2) has a setting in the list of connected devices to "Always use this IP Address" once read from the device and stored in the routing table the first time around, and the address can be changed manually by me on the router, or the routers entry for any device can be removed for a fresh start.

Once the CS2 details are read into the routers device table (MAC address obviously in order to associate the desired IP address), and hopefully with the manual fixed IP address you wanted, it would give the impression that the CS2 is storing the address, because thereafter DHCP is assigning the same address it knows for that device each time the CS2 boots and sends a request to DHCP.

If I change the IP on the CS2 to something totally different, and either click the blue down arrow button (save and stay on this screen), or click the tick icon (save and exit), to store the new IP value, a short while later PingTools shows the new IP registered for the CS2 on the network. I can reliably change to any other IP address during that power session.

Next I reboot the CS2, and when it comes back up it has reverted to the previous IP address stored in DHCP, proving that the CS2 always uses DHCP on reboot (as long as the service is active).

So to all intents and purposes you think you've set the IP address correctly, but next day when you go to play trains and turn on CS2, it reverts back to the DHCP stored IP (Always use this IP address=Yes), or if =No gives a new IP in the reserved DHCP range, which might coincidentally be the same as used on previous occasions but could be different.

Armed with this knowledge users now know that they should check their DHCP service (wherever that is, router, server, PC, etc) to see what its doing and this is where they should set the desired IP if its wrong. Or alternatively turn off the DHCP service entirely (probably unwise as many other things may rely on it) so that the CS2 manually stored IP truly does take effect at boot time.

Its no wonder Marklin recommend Auto(DHCP) mode for ease of use.

Cor blimey, I only wanted to play with my trains remotely!

Jim
Offline JohnjeanB  
#14 Posted : 22 June 2022 23:54:22(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,128
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jim
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

I believe you are right about the CS2 storing the manual IP address.
I've been doing quite a lot more testing this evening using ONLY the MANUAL mode, just to confirm I'm not losing my marbles!


I am not sure of everything but this: the CS2 keeps the address you entered AS LONG AS you don't switch to automatic mode or push the DHCP key

Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post
Are you absolutely sure your CS2/CS3 is doing as you say? Because I find that sometimes the IP address screen does not update to show the real live IP address. It also depends on how your server/routers DHCP is configured. I presume you do have DHCP active?

The CS2 is EXACTLY DOING THIS and will change change the IP address you set as long as in manual and as long as you leave the DHCP key alone. It is my understanding that the server / router is to obey requests from its CLIENTS. As long as your device (CS2 or the CLIENT) does not request one, none is given (aka the IP address is not changed) but the server (WiFi router) always ready to provide one when requested (DHCP)
Yes
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

My initial issue and reason why I wanted to suggest why some people have trouble setting a Manual/Static/Fixed IP is that the Help screen shown in my photo says that when the CS2 is started then DHCP is always used to get an IP address even if Manual mode is set. My tests show me that on reboot it is doing exactly that.

If DHCP service is available, it uses it to get an address from the router, regardless of the IP address set in the CS2.

Yes the DHCP service is available but as long as the CS2 does NOT ask for it, it is not performed (providing an address update)

Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post
My router (Smart Hub 2) has a setting in the list of connected devices to "Always use this IP Address" once read from the device and stored in the routing table the first time around, and the address can be changed manually by me on the router, or the routers entry for any device can be removed for a fresh start.

Once the CS2 details are read into the routers device table (MAC address obviously in order to associate the desired IP address), and hopefully with the manual fixed IP address you wanted, it would give the impression that the CS2 is storing the address, because thereafter DHCP is assigning the same address it knows for that device each time the CS2 boots and sends a request to DHCP.

If I change the IP on the CS2 to something totally different, and either click the blue down arrow button (save and stay on this screen), or click the tick icon (save and exit), to store the new IP value, a short while later PingTools shows the new IP registered for the CS2 on the network. I can reliably change to any other IP address during that power session.

Next I reboot the CS2, and when it comes back up it has reverted to the previous IP address stored in DHCP, proving that the CS2 always uses DHCP on reboot (as long as the service is active).

So to all intents and purposes you think you've set the IP address correctly, but next day when you go to play trains and turn on CS2, it reverts back to the DHCP stored IP (Always use this IP address=Yes), or if =No gives a new IP in the reserved DHCP range, which might coincidentally be the same as used on previous occasions but could be different.

Armed with this knowledge users now know that they should check their DHCP service (wherever that is, router, server, PC, etc) to see what its doing and this is where they should set the desired IP if its wrong. Or alternatively turn off the DHCP service entirely (probably unwise as many other things may rely on it) so that the CS2 manually stored IP truly does take effect at boot time.

Cor blimey, I only wanted to play with my trains remotely!

Jim

My "trick" is to ask the server / router for an address ONCE by setting temporarily the CS2 in auto mode and pushing the DHCP key.
Then the address is updated and I FREEZE it by setting the CS2 back to manual.
Note: with the CS3 it is a bit more ambiguous but the principle is the same.
Note: byasking the router for one address ONCE, you get an address that complies with all the rules address should obey to without any hasle.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
Offline Ukjim  
#15 Posted : 24 June 2022 12:36:44(UTC)
Ukjim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 14/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: England, Corby Glen
Bonsoir Jean,

I was admiring your layout in your August 2019 video. That's a really great layout. I love the variety of locos and stock you have, and all the wonderful activity going on with the turntable, the coal depot and its crane, and all the lighting effects. There's a lot of interesting things happening on your layout. I noticed also a video showing your CS2 running the automation for the layout. C'est Superb, no doubt it has been many years of setting up and enjoyment. Well done to you ThumpUp

So where were we up to? I feel you are the right knowledgeable person to be discussing this with as you appear to be helping a lot of fellow users on this forum with technical queries. I hope you don't think I'm being awkward, I just want to make sure things are explained clearly so that people can find our conversation useful. For the most part I am in total agreement with the points you have made. See my comments in bold below (Note: I have made some very small tweaks to the quoted text to make things clearer, and readers should read below in preference to any previous posts we made).

Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim
Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

I believe you are right about the CS2 storing the manual IP address.
I've been doing quite a lot more testing this evening using ONLY the MANUAL mode, just to confirm I'm not losing my marbles!


I am not sure of everything but this: the CS2 keeps the address you entered AS LONG AS you don't switch to automatic mode or push the DHCP key

Jim: Yes I agree. It does store the address, but when starting up, if DHCP service is available, it does NOT use the manual IP address whilst booting.

Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post
Are you absolutely sure your CS2/CS3 is doing as you say? Because I find that sometimes the IP address screen does not update to show the real live IP address. It also depends on how your server/routers DHCP is configured. I presume you do have DHCP active?

The CS2 is EXACTLY DOING THIS and will change the IP address you set as long as in manual and as long as you leave the DHCP key alone. It is my understanding that the server / router is to obey requests from its CLIENTS. As long as your device (CS2 or the CLIENT) does not request one, none is given (aka the IP address is not changed) but the server (WiFi router) always ready to provide one when requested (DHCP)
Yes

Jim: Yes, I agree. When making manual changes to the IP address on the CS, and you save, it takes effect instantly on the network. (It is your responsibility to ensure you are not entering an IP already used by another device.)
After the CS has booted up, DHCP only makes a change if one clicks the DHCP button to request an IP from the DHCP service.


Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post

My initial issue and reason why I wanted to suggest why some people have trouble setting a Manual/Static/Fixed IP is that the Help screen shown in my photo says that when the CS2 is started then DHCP is always used to get the IP address even if Manual mode is set. My tests show me that on reboot it is doing exactly that.

On reboot, If DHCP service is available, the CS2 uses DHCP to get an address from the router, regardless of any manual IP address set in the CS2.

Yes the DHCP service is available but as long as the CS2 does NOT ask for it, it is not performed (providing an address update)

Jim: This is the point I'm trying to make! lol LOL BigGrin When the Central Station STARTS UP, it DOES ALWAYS ASK the DHCP service for an IP address, even if an IP is stored on the central station as a manual address. Neither you or I ask it to, but it does it anyway - the Help screen explains this!

Therefore there is the possibility it might set a different address than what you are expecting. Normally once you're happy with an IP setting, you probably never want/need to change it. But some people might try setting it up and later decide to change it to a different address (e.g. they discover another device is using the same IP address - a "duplicate address" which is NOT GOOD, or they just didn't understand enough about setting IP addresses originally, so want to change it to something more appropriate, or perhaps they are expanding their system and need to reconfigure several things).

Therefore if the DHCP service has previously stored an IP address for the CS2 and the router is set to Always use this IP address for the Central Station (in router DHCP settings, this is usually called DHCP IP reservation which provides the same IP address to be used every time as a fixed address solely for the use of a single network device with a specific unique MAC Address).
Changing the manual setting on the central station is NOT going to fix that permanently. It would reset to the previous value the next time the CS is turned on.
Note: If the IP address stored in DHCP is the SAME value as you have set in the Central Station then of course it's not a problem. But if it's DIFFERENT then you have to make the IP change in the DHCP service in your routers setting, usually by going into Admin mode for the router, then Advanced Settings, then DHCP Service
.

Originally Posted by: Ukjim Go to Quoted Post
My router (Smart Hub 2) has a setting in the list of connected devices called "Always use this IP Address" which is read from the Central Station and stored in the routers device routing table the first time around, and the address can be changed manually by me on the router, or the routers entry for any device can be removed for a fresh start.

Once the CS2 details have been read and stored into the routers device table (MAC address obviously in order to associate the desired IP address), and hopefully with the correct manual fixed IP address you wanted, it would appear as if it is the CS2 that is providing the address, when actually DHCP on the router is providing the address it holds each time the CS2 boots and sends a request to DHCP.

If I manually change the IP on the CS2 to something totally different, and either click the blue down arrow button (save and stay on this screen), or click the tick icon (save and exit), to store the new IP value, a short while later PingTools shows the new IP registered for the CS2 on the network. I can reliably change to any other IP address but it's only for the duration of that power session.

Next I reboot the CS2, and when it comes back up it has reverted to the address previously stored in DHCP, proving that the CS2 always uses DHCP on reboot (as long as the DHCP service is active). It does not use the manually set value in the CS2 when booting, it gets it from DHCP.

So to all intents and purposes you may think you've set the new IP address correctly, but next day when you go to play trains and turn on CS2, it reverts back to the DHCP stored IP (Always use this IP address=Yes), [or if =No it gives a new IP in the reserved DHCP range, which might coincidentally be the same as used on previous occasions but could be different when other devices on the network are also requesting IP addresses from DHCP.]

Armed with this knowledge users now know that if encountering problems setting an IP address they should check their DHCP service (wherever that is running; router, server, PC, etc) to see what its doing and this is where they should set the desired IP if its wrong. Or alternatively turn off the DHCP service entirely (probably unwise as many other things may rely on it) so that the CS2 manually stored IP truly does take effect at boot time.

Cor blimey, I only wanted to play with my trains remotely!

Jim

My "trick" is to ask the server / router for an address ONCE by setting temporarily the CS2 in auto mode and pushing the DHCP key.
Then the address is updated and I FREEZE it by setting the CS2 back to manual.
Note: with the CS3 it is a bit more ambiguous but the principle is the same.
Note: by asking the router for one address ONCE, you get an address that complies with all the rules address should obey to without any hasle.
Cheers
Jean

Jim: Yes I understand your trick, and that's fine because you are then using the address DHCP gave you. But if you wanted to manually enter a completely different new IP address you would be successful during that running session, but when you powered up again, you would discover your previous address showing in the IP address box, causing you to think"Hey, I'm sure I set and saved it last night? It was working fine, how come its gone back?".


Jim: I found a post by user fhp2, I wonder if he was suffering from this problem? Also a couple of other posts which I wondered if it was the same cause. Difficult to say sometimes.
https://www.marklin-user...e-CS3-v-2-4-0#post645922

Comprenez-vous maintenant mon ami?
Jim

Edited by user 26 June 2022 23:50:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 25 June 2022 01:08:21(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,128
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jim
Glad you like my layout. Indeed Rocrail allows many possibilities.

Regarding the IP address this is no what I observe with my router, my CS2 and my CS3.
I never observed a change of IP address when the CS2 or CS3 is in manual mode. They are the client and the server (the WiFi router) is here to serve the client (to obey orders). If the server is not asked for a new address and -possibly yes- if there are no address conflicts, the server will not provide a new address and the CS2 or CS3 will NOT change irrespective how many times you boot-up the CS2/3.

For me, using Rocrail, if the addresses were not stable (you NEVER have to change them) it would be really a pain somewhere.
Besides, having do declare a new address everytime to the firewall would be crazy.
I must admit that my layout has its own WiFi router (there is not the whole internet traffic through it).
I hope, it will soon be like this for you too.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Ukjim  
#17 Posted : 26 June 2022 22:16:00(UTC)
Ukjim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 14/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: England, Corby Glen
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim
Glad you like my layout. Indeed Rocrail allows many possibilities.

Regarding the IP address this is no what I observe with my router, my CS2 and my CS3.
I never observed a change of IP address when the CS2 or CS3 is in manual mode. They are the client and the server (the WiFi router) is here to serve the client (to obey orders). If the server is not asked for a new address and -possibly yes- if there are no address conflicts, the server will not provide a new address and the CS2 or CS3 will NOT change irrespective how many times you boot-up the CS2/3.

For me, using Rocrail, if the addresses were not stable (you NEVER have to change them) it would be really a pain somewhere.
Besides, having do declare a new address everytime to the firewall would be crazy.
I must admit that my layout has its own WiFi router (there is not the whole internet traffic through it).
I hope, it will soon be like this for you too.
Cheers
Jean


Hi Jean,
I just wanted to thank you very much for your input on this difficult subject.
At least we have given some info to make other people aware of something to check if they encounter similar problems.
Best wishes
Au revoir!
Jim
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