Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 200
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
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Hi there, I use a 60VA transformer (Marklin 60052) with my CS1. My layout is prepared for several circuits but with the CS1 can't use them because Marklin made the CS1 a nasty bussines for owners. However, when i buy a new CS i probably will use at least one extra booster. My question is in using a different transformer for powerring the TT 7286 with the 7687 kit and powering at the same time, with the same second transformer, some Viessmanns k83 (5211) that have an extra connection for exterior power in the "E" socket at the top (like shown below) and other similar devices:  Can i do this with different kind of transformers, like using the Marklin 6052 with the CS1 and then using a Viessmann 5200 (52VA) for the other devices, setting up a command ground "0" (brown) between them? (or even use an old Marklins 32VA Transformer from an old Starter Set, one with the analog dial but also have a separate output for acessories). I also have a spare 60052 that i was saving for an extra booter, but can use it. So, something like this: (IMAGE EDITED)  Thanks. Pedro. Edited by user 01 June 2022 22:36:08(UTC)
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Pedro Rosa. Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal. My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital) |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Hi!
The transformer that powers the CS must not be connected to anything beside the CS.
You do not show the CS in your drawing.
The CS can have a common ground with other transformers - this is even needed for level crossings.
The CS can be used with ESU boosters provided is has software level 2.0.4 or higher. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 200
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
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Originally Posted by: H0  Hi!
The transformer that powers the CS must not be connected to anything beside the CS.
You do not show the CS in your drawing.
The CS can have a common ground with other transformers - this is even needed for level crossings.
The CS can be used with ESU boosters provided is has software level 2.0.4 or higher. You're right, i corrected the image to show the CS1. I didn't knew that however seems right because that CS was made by ESU (if i remember correctly because i was away from the hobby for many years). Pedro. |
Pedro Rosa. Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal. My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital) |
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,578 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Pedro
Powering the CS1 with a 60052 transfo is what was advised at the time but the drawback is the voltage fluctuations causing trains to change speed in an unwanted manner. Causes: power consumption changes, Voltage fluctuations on the mains.
The best (IMO is to use an old PC power supply (19 VDC, 50 or 100W). It provides stable smooth operation because the voltage is regulated.
Now how to connect other transfo? Here are the rules:
- never use the CS1 power source for anything else simultaneously.
- can connect any transfo (14, 16 or 18 VAC) to the digital power PROVIDED only ONE transfo pole is connected to the "Digital ground".
- any brand will do PROVIDED it has an over-current protection
- clearly identify in your wiring the shared ground Best is to use color coded wiring
Cheers
Jean |
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1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 200
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
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Jean, Thanks again for yout wonderful tips. Just a question: for the newer CS3 this 60052 are not advised anymore by Marklin? (I understand that you gave a personnal opinion about their use in the CS1). Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Pedro
Now how to connect other transfo? Here are the rules:
- never use the CS1 power source for anything else simultaneously.
- can connect any transfo (14, 16 or 18 VAC) to the digital power PROVIDED only ONE transfo pole is connected to the "Digital ground".
- any brand will do PROVIDED it has an over-current protection
- clearly identify in your wiring the shared ground Best is to use color coded wiring
Cheers
Jean So, for what i understand, the diagram i made is correct? I have all the wiring very well documented on the layout. Pedro. |
Pedro Rosa. Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal. My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital) |
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,289
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Pedro
Powering the CS1 with a 60052 transfo is what was advised at the time but the drawback is the voltage fluctuations causing trains to change speed in an unwanted manner. Causes: power consumption changes, Voltage fluctuations on the mains.
The best (IMO is to use an old PC power supply (19 VDC, 50 or 100W). It provides stable smooth operation because the voltage is regulated.
I did used Lenz digital system with trafo that feeded system and there was no voltage fluctuation any at all. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,289
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I have not see yours drawing but i suppose you mean difference power supply for your layout?
Be attention that when you use CS1 you can only feed by trafo.
I did used old turntable 7286 for many years ago with the CU 6021 and did connected the bridge with digital power source and turntable cab control with analog power via trafo. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
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Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 200
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
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Thanks! I think that you can see it now. Sorry... Originally Posted by: Goofy Be attention that when you use CS1 you can only feed by trafo. Sorry, didn't understand exactly what you mean by this. |
Pedro Rosa. Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal. My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital) |
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,578 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: pmgsr Thanks again for yout wonderful tips. Just a question: for the newer CS3 this 60052 are not advised anymore by Marklin? (I understand that you gave a personnal opinion about their use in the CS1). No, for the CS2 there was an option to use a 60052 transfo but a recommendation to use a switched power supply. With the CS3, this is not an option anymore. You must feed it with the switched regulated power supply (60045 or 60061 before that). Why? You purchase an expensive loco with an excellent load regulation (same speed uphill and downhill) and all would be ruined because the voltage feed to the CS3 is not constant, causing jumps or brutal slow downs? no way anymore. Beside, in the EU there are rules against energy waste (one is caused using transformers) Jean |
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1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,578 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: Goofy I did used Lenz digital system with trafo that feeded system and there was no voltage fluctuation any at all. I don't know about Lentz but I do know that CS1s, CS2s and CS3 rectify the incoming power (no voltage regulation) and digitalise it (hash it). I also know that with the best Märklin locos and motors, this has a direct consequence on their speed. So maybe Lenz is just great or maybe you did not observe a real feed voltage change and its consequence on a loco speed. Cheers Jean |
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,578 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: pmgsr So, for what i understand, the diagram i made is correct?
I have all the wiring very well documented on the layout. I don't know I cannot see your diagram but a no-entry sign instead.Sorry Jean |
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,508 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB ... but I do know that CS1s, CS2s and CS3 rectify the incoming power (no voltage regulation)
I don't think the CS3 does rectify the power, this is why you must use the switch mode power supply that provides DC power to the CS3. I would expect it to have a diode to protect against reverse polarity though. The CS2 does definitely rectify the incoming power which is why a transformer can be used.
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Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 200
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB I don't know I cannot see your diagram but a no-entry sign instead.Sorry
Jean
I think it's available now. Pedro. |
Pedro Rosa. Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal. My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital) |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: Goofy Be attention that when you use CS1 you can only feed by trafo. The CS1 works better when used with a switching-mode power supply, but it can be used with a transformer. And yes, only one transformer should be used for the CS1. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,578 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: pmgsr I think it's available now.
Hi Sorry I wrote something false when I was meaning the opposite. Indeed the CS3 does not accept AC power. The power connector for 60215 and 60216 has 4 pins. 2 pins are for + and -19VDC, 2 pins are for AC power. On the CS3 (60216, 60226), the AC pins are not connected. Here is the Pin Out common to 60213, 60214, 60215, 60216 and 60226 (taken from Mr Pallund website in Denmark)  Sorry again for my mistake Cheers Jean |
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1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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