Wonderful collection...

Hi Goofy,

I never said it was 'necessary', just that it looked tidy, but you would have to agree that the thicker the wire (within reason), the better for avoiding any voltage drop between the controller and the layout. I always felt that a single thin wire sort of looked 'flimsy', and IMHO the twisted wires are very tidy - but that is personal preference only. Each to his own of course

I think we are all largely agreed that the newer transformers are preferable if you have one, but not everyone does. To the best of my knowledge, I have never read a statement from Marklin stating not to use the older Blue trafos. If you purchased a new Blue (plastic case) trafo in the early 80's or even the later 70's, and it is of a suitable power rating for the needs of your layout, why replace it before you need to? Internally there is nothing fancy.

Don't forget that Delta (a subset of Digital) is almost always shown in the catalogues running off a Blue Trafo, and the basic Digital technology used is still the same.

It's largely an academic discussion now anyway because the newer generation Digital controllers already come with proprietary power supplies, problem solved.

Cheers

Cookee

Hi Tom, Goofy, and others watching this, sorry I should have been more clear in the statement I was making, it grew from a slightly different discussion and may have become wider than I intended. I'm still not following the point about not using Blue trafo's. WHAT??? is the difference between a 220v BLUE Trafo and a 220v WHITE Trafo? The colour, that is all. Of course you don't plug a 110v trafo into 220v? (BANG!), or vice-versa 220v Trafo from 110v supply (no bang, just no operation either as this thread proved).

And I have to clarify I was not specifically talking about running Digital Loco's off a Blue Trafo, what I meant was POWERING a 6021, Control 80, Intellibox etc from the direct AC uncontrolled output (Brown/Yellow) of a Blue Trafo.

But..., in saying that, right from the start Marklin have always said you could run your new Digital loco's from your Analogue controller with the idea that sometime down the track you might want to convert to Digital Control so why not start with the Loco's when you purchase new ones?

You make a valid point Tom about the current Trafo's, but looking at the 2010 catalogue, it appears they now only offer 6646 & 6647, and it seems, no transformer-only version. But these two units are now only rated at 32va output, a considerable drop from the 52va of the 6002.

And Marklin themselves don't help the situation with their (once-again) re-using of item codes. I have a 6002 52va Trafo. It is marked as a Primary of 220v. In the 2000 catalogue for example, the 6002 is now referred to as having a 230v primary. Probably as much as anything to fall mid-range within the international voltages that range anywhere from 220v to 240v. But really, they should have change the code at that time, either a new number or a suffix like 6002B.

But I note also on the same page of that 2000 cat (p313), they have controller 6646 rated at 120VAC USA Primary, and Trafo 6001 rated at 110VAC USA Primary so even then there was confusion.

I have just taken a measurement of the household AC supply, it reads 245VAC in metropolitan Melbourne. Unfortunately it's with a cheaper hobby multimeter so I will have to wait until Nadine and the girls get back so I can do the same check with my professional Fluke Meter from my toolkit (it's in the car). That 245VAC Primary equates to 18.5v at the Secondary so yes it's about 15% higher. Perhaps this should be a new thread for other members to take their measurements of their various controllers, their current household voltage and the output, it might make for interesting analysis.

At the end of the day, each to their own. We are all friends here. I will continue to use my Blue (suitably-rated) Trafo if the need requires and because it suits me.

Of course I would strongly encourage anyone starting or re-starting with this hobby to try wherever possible to use the latest available power units and controllers. Particularly if they are not electrically-minded. For then, they have peace-of-mind and don't have to worry.

For others of us that have been in the hobby for a longer time, and perhaps have greater faith in the generally robust design of Marklin products, and if we are more comfortable with electrical concepts, there is much greater scope and flexibility available.

It's a good debate from which we shall all learn something I'm sure.

Cheers to all

Cookee

I read through this thread with great interest. Has there been any discussion on the forum about using appropriate step up step down trafos for using Euro equipment in North America? I recall at one point a comment that disparaged its use. I am currently using one here in Canada that we actually got in Portugal when living there and can be changed to either step up or step down. I have had no issues when using it with my 6021, that is with white trafo 220 or 230 (I will have to check later) with step up trafo option to step up from 120/110 to 220/230 ... will have to check the exact numbers since this has now been clarified to me in this thread. I had never understood why some had either 110 or 120 and the same for the 220 or 230 difference. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to get Europeans to agree on using the same voltage when they can't even agree on which way is best to eat eggs for breakfast.

The only time I fried a decoder was in my initial phase of running my first lovely digital Kreigslok insider edition which was one of my first digital loks to try out in conventional operation. I used the old metal Marklin re-railers while the track still had some power. That was probably my biggest lesson in stupidity wrt to the sensitivity of MMR electronics and now the poor thing is a shelf-queen. They use the C-sine engines that apparently has unique decoders and so not easily replaced oneself. I have yet to revisit the problem for correction but when contacting Marklin at the time I recall that the cost of repair was the same as the cost of the lok. So matching power and protecting decoders is a concern.

It was a bit the same in Australia, which had 230V, 240V and 250V, depending which state you were in. However my understanding is the international standard is now 230V +/- a wider percentage (I think it is 20%) than the narrower percentage that it used to be, so they are all within the nominal 230V.

In practice there is quite a variation on the voltage anyway, due to loading varying as heaters and electric stoves are turned on and off, along with TVs and other appliances. The aim of the supply authorities is to keep the mains frequency within a very close tolerance (although this does also vary with loading) as this can have a significant effect of other things run off the mains.

Ok. Someone had refered to as such. Its all grey which seems unusual. Its been years since I revisited it. Of course if it is DB is has to be post war.

I would love to know which direction to look for 3rd party components, (edit: appropriate decoder?)
... what decoder brand/type do you suggest?
And what motor would you replace it with?
- Mark

Edited by user 06 May 2022 16:14:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The link tells me in German that the page cannot be found.

Replacing the Decoder would seem like the easier option. It was working fine and then just froze after what appears to be a short.
There should be a way I can just power the motor to test it at least before taking on a replacement project.
How would I do that with a C sine motor without potential damage?
Where can i find the specifications?