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Offline cintrans  
#1 Posted : 16 April 2022 00:33:50(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Hi all, it has been a while since i posted.

Got my hands on a nice used Santa Fe set today out of a local estate sale, but i am not sure witch one i have.... got the 37622 box with it and a 4063 box.... but i don't think does are the right boxes for it...
The set seems to be delta digital, it has sound (engine, bell, whistle and horn), it has the two A units and the B unit coupled permanent to each other. Both A units have 5 pole motors with permanent magnets. The slider is on the B unit. One A unit has the decoder (???) witch are two boards back to back, with one having 4 dip switches and two pot meter and the other board 8 dip switches....
Anyone here that knows witch model # this is supposed to be?
Serial # on the A units are H8128643 & M8094211

Now the issue i am having is that every time it goes over a turnout the slider seems to create a short circuit. It shorts out the 6021 controller and the set obviously stops dead on the track....

I am using the train on C-rails, the slider is 62 mm long and as said, sits under the B unit. Is it possible that the slider is wrong or is something else wrong?

Regards from Aruba

Jean-Pierre


Offline mvd71  
#2 Posted : 16 April 2022 00:45:00(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,463
Location: Auckland,
Probably best if you post a few photos of the units showing the decoders and how the units are all linked together. That way members can get a better idea of things and may be able to help.

Cheers….

Mike
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Offline cintrans  
#3 Posted : 16 April 2022 02:36:30(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Lets see if this works... never attached a pic to a message on this forum...
santa fe 1.jpg

santa fe 2.jpg

Jean-Pierre
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 16 April 2022 08:13:20(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,286
Location: Southwesternmost
How about a picture of the infamous slider? Reading your report, it could be that the slider - being pushed up by the raised center studs of a turnout - is touching an un-insulated axle which in turn causes a short circuit…
Offline cintrans  
#5 Posted : 16 April 2022 14:28:34(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Here you go...

santa fe 3.jpg

That is a good point!
Looking at pictures i found a Santa Fe #3362 that came with a similar set up as mine (A-B-A and slider on the B unit), but the slider seems to be shorter on that one, the booklet on the # 37622 states the slider should be # 7185, same as on mine.
When i push the slider up i don't think it would touch the axles, but bend edges are very close to the front and rear brace of the wheel boogie.
I am going to try to insulate those edges with insulation tape to confirm this....

Otherwise, a shorter slider would be the solution??

Jean-Pierre
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#6 Posted : 16 April 2022 14:59:10(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,286
Location: Southwesternmost
Unfortunately I buried all my F7s somewhere and thus cannot verify the slider positions or lengths. However, according to the Märklin 37622 data sheet, the slider is under the F7A front bogie and not under the F7B. When Märklin equips a F7B with a slider, at least one axle has an insulation around the axle to avoid a short circuit. On your photo it seems as if none of the F7B axles of the truck with the slider is insulated. Therefore I guess you have procured a kit-bashed version. Independent from the slider length you should wrap some electrical insulation around the affected F7B axle(s).
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Offline cintrans  
#7 Posted : 16 April 2022 15:34:18(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Thank you Ak

The number in the front lights is "339", so it looks indeed to be a kit-bashed set based on #37622 and a second A-unit.

There is indeed no insulation around the axles of the B-unit and looking closer to the truck with the slider i just found also that the head of the bolt used to connect the permanent coupler is quite long, M*N shoulder bolts #75303 were used (found a bag in the #37622 box), there is also a possibility that this touches the inner corner of the back side of the slider....

So i have some insulation work to do this afternoon to see if i can remedy the fault!

Thanks
Jean-Pierre
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Offline cintrans  
#8 Posted : 17 April 2022 02:42:30(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Alright, the short has been repaired.
The shoulder bolt used to make the permanent connection from the A unit to the B unit did not sit right thru the assembly surrounding the truck. I widen the hole a bit so the bolt could pass thru the way it suppose to be. The bolt as high enough now so the slider corner does not touch it any more.....

Unfortunately another issue arose now....
The train only keeps on driving for an extended period of time when i crank the controller all the way up. If i have the controller on lets say 1/2 power or something the train would make one or two laps around the track normal and then stops randomly. Sound and light stays on. After a short time (without doing nothing) the train starts moving again for maybe a quarter of a lap and stops again. Moving the controller when it stops makes no difference....

Could this be the decoder that is acting up? Or as this seem to be a kit bashed train, could it be because there a two high propulsion motors connected to this one decoder? Do original 2 motor units have one or two decoders?

Jean-Pierre

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#9 Posted : 17 April 2022 09:54:34(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,286
Location: Southwesternmost
Sounds to me like the decoder is at fault, i.e. gone. I am collecting F7s for a decade, and my first acquisition was a used 37622 which - only after a couple of years - was the first and up to now only original F7 decoder to die on me. I replaced it with a simple EUR 30 decoder by ESU,which did not let me down. This meant the end of bells and whistles, as I did not bother to invest in "reviving" the sound functions.

My F7 A-B-A article 3662 came with one decoder controlling two motorized F7A units.

One of our forum members once described how he converted a formerly analogue F7 A-B-A Demonstrator set (article 3349) to digital by installing a single decoder to control two motors:

Edited by user 17 April 2022 15:56:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline cintrans  
#10 Posted : 02 May 2022 20:33:28(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Thanks for the video link, remember seeing that one some time ago.

Well, finally got around to tinker a bit with the trouble Santa Fe.

I took out the motor of the second A unit (removed the rotor) and the train drives beautiful now....
No more random stopping, nice crawl speed and all....
So i guess the original decoder can not handle 2x 5* motors?

I do like the original sounds so for now it will need to do with one motor, maybe in the future we'll update the decoder and build the 2e motor back in....

Regards

Jean-Pierre

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Offline cintrans  
#11 Posted : 02 May 2022 23:59:16(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
OK, just found and corrected another issue....

The lamp in the A unit i removed the motor from stayed on all the time, no matter if "function" was on or not or the train was driving forward or reverse. The light in the 1e A unit worked as it should.

When the previous owner kit bashed the 2e A unit to the train, he only ran the yellow wire from the light back to the decoder and instead of connecting the orange wire to the other side of the bulb, he connected that side to chassis ground.....

I am now wondering if that might have been the issue all along of the bad driving behavior? The bulb just pulling to much current from the decoder for it to work properly with two motors....

I'll re-install the motor next week-end and see if that theory makes sense... we'll report back!

Jean-Pierre

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Offline marklinist5999  
#12 Posted : 03 May 2022 13:04:44(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,662
Location: Michigan, Troy
Could be that too. My shorting problem ha sbeen isolated to the bogie, because I eliminated the possibility of a short in the solder points on the pcb board. With no power to the board, it still is shorting. I think perhaps a small insualting tab between the pick up slider connector and the bogie may be missing, so it is grounded to the bogie and causing it.
Offline cintrans  
#13 Posted : 20 May 2022 04:59:02(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
Update:

No luck when re-installing the 2e motor back.... the train returned to the "stop and go" behavior.
Additionally, the lamp in the second A unit, although now working at "normal" clarity (was kind of dim before) still does not want to change over when changing direction (stays lit all the time)

So it looks indeed the decoder is partially gone!

That said, i also bought the Burlington double A unit from the same estate. This one was upgraded with a 5* motor and a MLd decoder. Next tinkering plan will be to install that decoder in the Santa Fe and re-install the 2e motor and move the decoder and soundboard from the Santa Fe into the Burlington.....

Alternatively:
Anyone ever attempted to rewire the original sound decoder board to another decoder?? Looked at the diagram at https://www.bogobit.de/sound/29848-f7/ but could not put my finger on it yet how to proceed with such an "operation"

Regards
Jean-Pierre
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Offline marklinist5999  
#14 Posted : 20 May 2022 14:23:36(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,662
Location: Michigan, Troy
My shorting was caused by too much bare slider wire at the bottom. It was just enoigh to touch the bogie. Once I used a new wire with less, it worked.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#15 Posted : 23 May 2022 09:49:20(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,286
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: cintrans Go to Quoted Post
Next tinkering plan will be to install that decoder in the Santa Fe and re-install the 2e motor and move the decoder and soundboard from the Santa Fe into the Burlington.....
How about swapping the shells, truck covers and fuel tank instead? That requires only a brief screwdriver intervention (instead of a more risky work with a soldering iron).

Originally Posted by: cintrans Go to Quoted Post
Alternatively:
Anyone ever attempted to rewire the original sound decoder board to another decoder?
Oh yes, but that was above my pay scale. Therefore, I discarded the sound option and limited the "operation" to install a 30 Euro decoder by ESU. I mean, the bells and whistles are nice, but the regular Marlin motor noise is already there anyway...


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Offline cintrans  
#16 Posted : 24 May 2022 00:53:33(UTC)
cintrans

Aruba   
Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
I thought about that, just switching the shells and other parts, but its a lot more work....

The Burlington is a A-A unit, one motor and one dummy, with the slider under the first A unit
The Santa Fe a A-B-A with the slider under and the speaker inside the B unit

So solder work is unavoidable, but i want to keep it to a minimum where possible....

Agreed on the "standard engine noise", sounds nice also! Just did not want to give up yet on that factory decoder, so it will get a second life in the Burlington now!

BTW, there is still a A-B-B-A Santa Fe unit (also red / silver / yellow) and a black A-A Southern Pacific in the estate!!

Regards
Jean-Pierre

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