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Offline Snowfun  
#1 Posted : 13 February 2022 17:04:02(UTC)
Snowfun

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: The Highlands
Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any experience of the Gaugemaster Z controller with simulation?
I’m tempted by it but… is it really worth it given I want to watch trains running not decelerating, stopping and accelerating again?
For my 4 track layout it is twice the price of the basic Gaugemaster Z 4 track controller so not insignificant. Worth it IFF anyone can provide a compelling reason!

I do enjoy slow speed shunting type operations on my outside 16mm scale locos but my initial thoughts are that Z locos are too small for all that… just get them moving and enjoy!

Comments appreciated!
Tim
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#2 Posted : 13 February 2022 19:59:27(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Snowfun Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any experience of the Gaugemaster Z controller with simulation?
I’m tempted by it but… is it really worth it given I want to watch trains running not decelerating, stopping and accelerating again?
For my 4 track layout it is twice the price of the basic Gaugemaster Z 4 track controller so not insignificant. Worth it IFF anyone can provide a compelling reason!

I do enjoy slow speed shunting type operations on my outside 16mm scale locos but my initial thoughts are that Z locos are too small for all that… just get them moving and enjoy!

Comments appreciated!
Tim


Carim is your man to give hands one feedback on that subject, but I absolutely recommend Gaugemaster's controllers for Z. They give so much better slow speed control than the standard Marklin offering.

Cheers


Chris

Offline Carim  
#3 Posted : 13 February 2022 23:44:43(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
I think it is well worth the money - just adds an extra element to the simple power on, power off proposition. Get your timing on the brakes wrong and watch your loco smash into the buffers LOL. Carim
Offline husafreak  
#4 Posted : 14 February 2022 05:49:39(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 557
Location: California, Bay Area
I would not choose that feature. Because guys I respect with tons of experience don't. To elaborate: I recently played with the "momentum" feature on my DCC equipped locos. It really is amazing to see these trains behaving like real ones. Taking forever to get going and stopping. So I asked on another US based train forum if the other DCC guys were using it (momentum simulation) and what values they were using. My heroes said they do not use the feature. They run their throttles manually. Maybe they prefer to have complete control...
Offline Snowfun  
#5 Posted : 14 February 2022 10:40:41(UTC)
Snowfun

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: The Highlands
So, contrasting opinions!
I like the timing element alluded to by Carim. To stop at the platform would add an additional “play value”.
Does it make any difference what motor the (all Marklin) locos have? Any adverse effects?
Secretly I also quite like the idea of having so many dials for what is quite a simple 4 track layout (no turnouts).
Thanks for comments so far.
Tim
Offline parakiet  
#6 Posted : 14 February 2022 11:38:18(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Flanders!
Depends how you want to operate.

If you run one train, you have a big track and want to simulate real behaviour it is what you need.

If you want to run multiple trains with signal / block control: you don't need it.
Offline husafreak  
#7 Posted : 14 February 2022 17:31:19(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 557
Location: California, Bay Area
BTW I have a small hand held “Snail” controller which has adjustable momentum simulation. It is something to play with but often the trains get hung up at the slow speed start and then it takes the hand of god to get them moving again, not good. But it does not cost extra. I guess I was saying that I wouldn’t pay so much extra for that feature.
I don’t know the Guagemaster, they are not sold at the correct line voltage for us and the company told me that using a step up controller is not recommended and may not work properly. But boy I would love to have their 4x controller!
Here is a question you might ask, many controllers have “steps” in speed, the Marklin 67271 controller I like has course steps, and even the first step is not a crawl. So using the throttle manually still gives those steps, this is the same with my DCC locos. But with DCC the momentum simulation can give a much more realistic acceleration and deceleration without noticeable steps. It can also hang up on very slow starts. But it generally works well and turning it off resumes normal operation, no need for Mr Hand.

Offline Snowfun  
#8 Posted : 14 February 2022 17:42:35(UTC)
Snowfun

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: The Highlands
The one thing I want to avoid is the Hand of God. That would ruin the fun for me. In some ways, that captures the issue here - my layout consists of 4 independent loops (they will be on different levels with bridges & tunnels but that’s a detail). Watching 4 trains (so far I have 2 German “crocs”, 2 Swiss plus the snowplough unit) going about their work is the priority. Especially watching the interactions as they pass each other or move along sections of parallel track.
That does tend to push me in the direction of the simple 4x… but having 8 dials? That is definitely tempting!
I want to “watch” the trains not necessarily or always “control” them. Perhaps that puts me in a minority?
Offline Carim  
#9 Posted : 14 February 2022 17:58:58(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 649
Location: London
Originally Posted by: Snowfun Go to Quoted Post

I want to “watch” the trains not necessarily or always “control” them.


In that case, simulation is a waste of money. You'd have to buy two GMC-DSZ.s @ £225 each compared to £240 for one GMC-QZ.

Carim

Offline husafreak  
#10 Posted : 14 February 2022 18:06:02(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 557
Location: California, Bay Area
You said:
"I do enjoy slow speed shunting type operations on my outside 16mm scale locos but my initial thoughts are that Z locos are too small for all that… just get them moving and enjoy!"

In the end of my controller search I came basically to your conclusion quoted above. The tiny motors and contacts we use just don't seem to have much torque, my attempts to run at super slow speeds often didn't work. Sure, I could single out particularly good locos for that, but across the board with all my different types of loco's and their power systems I decided reliable operation throughout the fleet was my goal, hence the clunky "old school" Marklin controller that just works. You can do shunting with Z scale but IMHO not at prototypical speeds.

I wonder why you are not going to combine your tracks? In case you are not so familiar with DC ops it is easy to transition from one track to another, just throw the switch (point) and ensure both track throttles are matched and the train will roll through. I think it is fun and use it often to transition trains the the track which accesses my staging yard. Answered!

Yes the different types of motors have very different running characteristics. The new sealed, can, bell-shaped armature motors are very efficient and don't seem to need as much power for a given speed, I think they are the best at slow speed running. The old 5 and 3 pole motors need more power to get going and seem to be more susceptible to getting hung up at slow speed running. The 3 pole motors seem to run faster than the 5 pole at any set throttle position.

Back on topic I have heard only good things about the Guagemaster, lucky for you!
Offline Snowfun  
#11 Posted : 14 February 2022 18:09:09(UTC)
Snowfun

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2021(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: The Highlands
I get the point but what constitutes a “waste” is rather subjective. After all, not in the Z business to save money!
I think I’ll get the 2x simulation then if I like it it’s another 200ish to get a second one or if I don’t it’s another 200ish to get the 4x (plus there’ll be a slightly used 2x simulation for sale!)
All comments much appreciated.
Can’t wait until I can post a layout pic and actually contribute here!
Offline husafreak  
#12 Posted : 14 February 2022 18:14:45(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 557
Location: California, Bay Area
Great, I hope you will have positive results and maybe comment on my post after you use it. Also I think the Crocs will work well for you, the ones I own are particularly good runners.
Offline aos  
#13 Posted : 14 February 2022 18:46:43(UTC)
aos

Scotland   
Joined: 03/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 524
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Hi Tim,

There is a small band of Marklin warriors just west of Edinburgh. Until the advent of covid, we used to meet regularly at Ian's place in Longridge for a weekend's get together. See https://www.marklin-user...-train-room-today/page97

Regards, Alan
Offline zoooctan  
#14 Posted : 15 February 2022 10:20:01(UTC)
zoooctan

Singapore   
Joined: 07/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Hi Tim, I noticed you posted your gaugemaster questions before so I won't really go into the same specifics. But I found the original thread and link to my own Youtube review on this post:
https://www.marklin-user...posts/t47650-A-new-world

I normally don't do many videos but this is how strongly I feel about the Gaugemaster controller. It really works well for me and also has a very nice quality finish to it.

You certainly are not alone when you say you like to just watch trains go by. This is why I try to divide my modules into ones where I can run point to point (American themed) and one where there are two connected loops (European) - to suit my mood. I'm think I'm the reverse of the other person who made the point about his layouts. My European one is DCC as I take advantage of the Marklin non-power routing track - and I mainly run Velmo DCC equipped locomotives. My American one (which does have smaller loops) but is meant to be point to point is analogue and runs on rokuhan track that allows me to take advantage of their power routing feature without complicated wiring or controls. Both layouts are almost exclusively Marklin rolling stock with some rare exceptions of Father Nature and MTL.
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