Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
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Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 6 users liked this useful post by H0
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 Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,898 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Power outages do occur, weather by equipment breakdown, or construction and weather. Therefore, If I were a railroad top level manager, I would keep some hybrid motive power in the system. Vectrons can be ordered with "Last mile" diesel or elecrtric power. A diesel electric loc. such as the br 66 etc. would need much modification to install a pantograph or two.
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,476 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: H0  I guess 'last mile' diesels come under the 'climate neutral' umbrella. They have tried doing this in the UK as well. The major infrastructure project has been to electrify the Great Western Railway tracks that run west from London out to Swindon and on to South Wales. They were having great problems, and the work was getting way behind and running well over budget. They have got as far as Didcot where I live and have run out of money to go any further. One of the problems was (according to one of my fellow local club members) that when the track was installed many years ago they had problems with built up road bed collapsing or getting washed out, so large amounts of concrete were used to shore it up, and this wasn't documented. So when the electrification construction crews came along they were supposed to be putting in bases for around a mile of overhead masts, but were only managing to drill down to do the foundations for a couple of masts each night. Well, I guess it is best of luck to the DB in their efforts. will they still allow Steam specials? I guess the Harz will carry on, they have lots of forest to absorb the carbon ... 
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2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 05/03/2016(UTC) Posts: 368 Location: England, Bedford
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Main line electrification from London St Pancras to Sheffield has been halted at Bedford, only 50 miles north of London. The commuter spur to Corby will still be electrified though. New build East - West Rail Oxford - MK - Bedford - Cambridge will not be electrified at construction stage.
IanC
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2 users liked this useful post by IanC
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 Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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I suggest third rail Best regards Joël |
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,476 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: TrainIride I suggest third rail Best regards Joël Nah, we leave all that around London and the South Coast.
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2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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 Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Well, I guess it is best of luck to the DB in their efforts. will they still allow Steam specials? I guess the Harz will carry on, they have lots of forest to absorb the carbon ... I am sure they can offset the emissions for any steam specials if they need. |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
1 user liked this useful post by applor
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 Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 570 Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
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Originally Posted by: applor Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Well, I guess it is best of luck to the DB in their efforts. will they still allow Steam specials? I guess the Harz will carry on, they have lots of forest to absorb the carbon ... I am sure they can offset the emissions for any steam specials if they need. It is estimated that here in the UK the demand for coal for steam specials and heritage lines amounts to some 28,000 tons per year. With domestic production drying up and imported coal being less suitable, attention is turning to synthetic "coal" made from waste vegetable matter with one narrow gauge line reporting success with their trials. Sorry can't remember which one. It was a report that came up on facebook.
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2 users liked this useful post by rmsailor
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Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC) Posts: 252 Location: England, Guildford
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: TrainIride I suggest third rail Best regards Joël Nah, we leave all that around London and the South Coast. Third rail is expensive too since you need a substation every 4 miles maximum and traction paralleling huts in between each pair. The Austrian/German Siemens trains that came to Wessex (Lines out of Waterloo to Portsmouth and Weymouth) to replace the 1960’s and 70’s EMUs draw far more current than their predecessors - not very green- and more substations and larger cross section conductor rail have become necessary. Because of the hazardous nature of fully unprotected exposed 750v dc conductor rail any further schemes fall foul of Health and Safety etc regulations. The last major third rail scheme was the Docklands Light Railway but that uses bottom contact on fully shrouded conductor rail. A former colleague of mine was a manager in the early days of GWR electrification and he attributed the colossal budget overrun to inexperienced project managers who, because no OHL installation had been done in the UK for decades and privatization got rid of swathes of experienced staff of all disciplines, had no realistic idea of costs and logistics involved. I had not heard of concrete rafts under the track, the masts have been installed quite a distance from the rails so its use must have been extensive. Perhaps lifting the track necessitated raising bridges etc to accommodate the wires? Edited by moderator 01 July 2021 02:02:30(UTC)
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 Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 1,157
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Originally Posted by: rmsailor Originally Posted by: applor Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Well, I guess it is best of luck to the DB in their efforts. will they still allow Steam specials? I guess the Harz will carry on, they have lots of forest to absorb the carbon ... I am sure they can offset the emissions for any steam specials if they need. It is estimated that here in the UK the demand for coal for steam specials and heritage lines amounts to some 28,000 tons per year. With domestic production drying up and imported coal being less suitable, attention is turning to synthetic "coal" made from waste vegetable matter with one narrow gauge line reporting success with their trials. Sorry can't remember which one. It was a report that came up on facebook. I remember reading an article recently in a British train magazine. and it was basically a call for more environmentally friendly heritage railways. They even wanted the volunteers to have carbon-neutral traveling to and from the railway. It may seem strange but I guess some heritage railways will have to adapt to more "enviro-friendly" fuel like pellets, oil, or syntectic coal. if not only to keep local politicians and population on their good side. As for the big picture, will it really make much difference ?. sometimes it seems that the whole picture is forgotten when a solution is considered and they only focus on low carbon emission and forget the rest. And you also have the Swiss solution ;) 
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2 users liked this useful post by bph
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,563 Location: Paris, France
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Hi In France, for passenger trains there is since 2020 the development "bimode" (dual mode) locomotives or passenger sets that run on electric power by can run "the last mile" on diesel Here is one example the B 82500 (2 modes: Electric and Diesel, 2 Systems 1500 VDC or 25 000 VAC, 4 bodies)  For freight traffic with full power evaluation testing by VFLI is starting also in France of EuroDual (Staedler / Vossloh): a mainline locomotive of 6MW (electric 1500 DC or 25 000 VAC) or 2.8 MW in Diesel traction. Maximum speed 160 km/h  Alstom was ordered 47 dual mode locos Prima H4 2 by SBB Infrastructure in 2015 Here is the beast  The Prima H4 loco is Diesel, electric (1500 VDC, 25 000 VAC) and battery for yard operation Cheers Jean |
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2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 1,157
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi In France, for passenger trains there is since 2020 the development "bimode" (dual mode) locomotives or passenger sets that run on electric power by can run "the last mile" on diesel Here is one example the B 82500 (2 modes: Electric and Diesel, 2 Systems 1500 VDC or 25 000 VAC, 4 bodies) Cheers Jean we have something similar in Norway, the type 76 (Stadler FLIRT). It'ss designed to operate fully on diesel and electricity, and short movements on battery. they can manage 200 km/h in electric mode and 160 km/h when running on diesel's.  Photo:jernbanedirektoratet.no and Njål Svingheim. The wagon that contains 4xDeutz V8 and the battery pack.
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1 user liked this useful post by bph
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Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 383
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi In France, for passenger trains there is since 2020 the development "bimode" (dual mode) locomotives or passenger sets that run on electric power by can run "the last mile" on diesel Here is one example the B 82500 (2 modes: Electric and Diesel, 2 Systems 1500 VDC or 25 000 VAC, 4 bodies) For freight traffic with full power evaluation testing by VFLI is starting also in France of EuroDual (Staedler / Vossloh): a mainline locomotive of 6MW (electric 1500 DC or 25 000 VAC) or 2.8 MW in Diesel traction. Maximum speed 160 km/h Alstom was ordered 47 dual mode locos Prima H4 2 by SBB Infrastructure in 2015 Here is the beast The Prima H4 loco is Diesel, electric (1500 VDC, 25 000 VAC) and battery for yard operation Cheers Jean NSW will be getting a similar thing soon - bi-mode trains that run under wires when on the suburban network but diesel when on the regional lines! https://www.caf.net/en/p...oyecto-detalle.php?p=306 |
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person! |
2 users liked this useful post by Dimi194
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Joined: 21/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 383
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Originally Posted by: bph I remember reading an article recently in a British train magazine. and it was basically a call for more environmentally friendly heritage railways. They even wanted the volunteers to have carbon-neutral traveling to and from the railway. It may seem strange but I guess some heritage railways will have to adapt to more "enviro-friendly" fuel like pellets, oil, or syntectic coal. if not only to keep local politicians and population on their good side. As for the big picture, will it really make much difference ?. sometimes it seems that the whole picture is forgotten when a solution is considered and they only focus on low carbon emission and forget the rest. And you also have the Swiss solution ;) These kind of arguments always seem very silly to me - it's the same as plastic straws, like yes we should try and use less, but banning them won't save the planet when 20 companies produce 50% of the plastic on the planet... Perspective, there are way better and more impactful ways to address pollution and climate change than banning heritage steam locos Making politicians use public transit instead all their personal cars/taxis/limos would be more than enough to offset the tiny amount of pollution made by heritage steam locos  |
Author of the gritty sci-fi novel 'Stories of Earth: WWIII' (featuring an awesome train chase)
Avid YouTuber (XtremeTrainz and TrainzXtreme) and train person! |
2 users liked this useful post by Dimi194
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Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 941 Location: Burney, CA
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I believe here in the US the diesel electric locomotive is still firmly entrenched. Other than in the East there are almost no electrified lines.  |
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia |
1 user liked this useful post by mrmarklin
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,898 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Pete Butejig is on that! Of course with Lake Mead, etc. drying up, I don't know where the hydro power will come from to run electric trains.
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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So it will soon be a picture of the past: Just caught a Vossloh Euro 4000, with its twin-turbo V16 EMD diesel engine, passing by ... Best Regards Joël |
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3 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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4 users liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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'BHP (ASX, LON, NYSE: BHP) is buying four battery electric trains to transport iron ore from its mines to ports in Western Australia, following in the footsteps of its main local rivals Rio Tinto (ASX, LON, NYSE: RIO) and Fortescue Metals Group (ASX: FMG).' 'A fully-laden BHP WA Iron Ore train typically comprises four diesel-electric locomotives pulling approximately 270 cars carrying a total of 38,000 tonnes of iron ore, BHP noted.' https://www.mining.com/b...trains-at-pilbara-mines/This diesel train I counted 240 cars:  A commuter train with batteries will be a piece of cake. Certainly for the last mile if stick a "small" battery in it.
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4 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
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 Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,288
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Here in Sweden, main lines have catenary since many years. However, there are discussions of hybrid engines for managing power outage e.g. due to crisis or weather conditions. It’s not only about capability for moving the ”last mile”, it’s also a matter of heating and air conditioning. (Yes, air conditioning, even in chilly Sweden.) Long railway lines in outskirts of low road density causes challenges for passenger evacuation…  |
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1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
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