Hi Chris, your better of using 7244 relay. Those old relays never lasted very long, before the dirt got to the contacts. I’ve been using a 7244 on my automatic signal for some time and it’s not failed!!
I also had Z in the past. Dan also from England

I have had experiences like yours and can sympathize. But I only know Z scale and what it costs. Not relative to other scales. But if we are to help one another in our pursuit of Z then your post:

“It's not just Marklin. I've purchased AZL items with similar problems and dissapointments.

My latest adventure into DCC Z gauge is another story all together. Don't even think of going there. Z gauge and DCC aren't yet compatible.”

Is not too helpful (for me). Could you give specific examples so we can learn from them? I hope you don’t mind. I have found this scale very rewarding, maybe too much problem solving but again, I can’t compare it to other scales. While not everything I bought worked right out of the box it has all been fixed, everything I own works. Buying new or from a dealer you trust gives the best chance of a perfectly working item but is more expensive, eBay from unknown sellers gives the best chance of acquiring a “needs work” item for a good price. But then you or your mechanic will need to fix it.

I had Märklin HO from the mid 1990s and had to return the first digital loco under the guarantee which took many months to get repaired, the next one (V188) that went wrong almost went out of guarantee whilst the shop in Marlow and the importer in Ford argued over who should send it back to Göppingen. I gave up HO reluctantly since we no longer had room for a permanent layout and it was extremely difficult to actually buy anything. At that time the then importer always seemed to have lots of Z available so I moved into Miniclub. For the last 20 years I have been steadily acquiring a lot of Z but so far the only permanent layouts have been large and small briefcase ones from Noch. These taught me two things: Miniclub does not like gradients or 145mm radius curves. Hence I like the idea of the 8930 Toporama with neither of those. The only two locos capable of climbing gradients seem to be the Märklin G4 and a Rokuhan German outline loco which has traction tyres.
Apart from a 2018 insider V80 (88803) all my locos and railcars run well on both Märklin and Rokuhan test tracks. The V80 is abysmal, it has the modern can motor but will barely move. I did not discover this until after the receipt went awol so returning this is not possible. I don’t experience trouble with dirty track - on the large briefcase layout I have had various locos running for relatively long periods up to a couple of hours at a time and, yes, they get hot! What about the track cleaning wagon, is this effective?
The Flying Hamburger can barely move (wheelspin) - it is a pity the powered bogie wasn’t the central Jacobs Truck.

I thought that the Rokuhan controllers would be ideal since they are electronic and have internal batteries but the Märklin locos draw more current than Rokuhan ones and they keep tripping out. I have a variety of the Märklin controllers from the small starter set ones to the large Märklin/Seimens ones and all are good at their jobs.
The older 3 pole motored locos are definitely the liveliest and most unpredictable, the 5 poles are smooth but the juries out on the can motors atm.

I tried N gauge many years ago intending to supersede the Hornby Dublo 3 rail that I was running in the 70s and early 80s but the quality then was appalling which put me completely off that system. About 15 years ago my youngest son had an N gauge railway with Fleischmann and Minitrix stock which worked well enough but it didn’t hold his interest.

So, yes, Miniclub is demanding and high maintenance but that is the challenge and part of the enjoyment. A 1980’s Miniclub catalogue lists digital locos - why did these not make it to market? Reports of DCCed Miniclub sounded positive but others don’t have that experience I read on these pages.

Interesting to read of other people’s views on and experience of Märklin Z, I look forward to much more.

Chris

Man, Wasn't there a review of the 88803 V40 in Trainini recently? Is that the one that naturally runs unusually slowly? I'll have to look back....
I have a Noch Cortina (who doesn't?) with gradients and 145 curves. I believe I will install the track and run it ASAP based on your observation. I need to see for myself... Luckily I do have the Rokuhan loco you refer to! BTW Rokuhan locos with their controllers is a great system, a poor mans DCC with the ability to turn the lights on and off while stationary and great performance. But introduce other manufacturers locos and you might have issues like tripping or locos that you can't throttle to a stop.
I haven't even considered trying catenary power for Z. I took one look at it and decided a man has got to know his limitations. At least as a "newbie".
In the end it sure sounds like we have all had very similar experiences and it kind of depends on the mood we are in whether we finish a Z session thrilled or thwarted!

.

Edited by user 17 June 2021 12:23:16(UTC)  | Reason: Deleted - Off Topic

Hello. I hope all is well.

I have been watching this topic and can see it has become very interesting.

Regarding the Toporama project, last year there was a fellow from New York who took up a Toporama project too. He posted his project on YouTube as he progressed with the work. Here is a link for his posts: (this might not be his first YouTube for his project)



I found it interesting and was surprised with the switch control system he added. Check it out, you can see what he finished with. It has been a while since I watched it, but perhaps the system he added also controls stops and starts etc.

I have heard and understand how the switches you are looking at using have an abrupt stop and start character of train controls which everyone seems to criticize. I have some of these also and planned to use them but have yet to move on this idea. Perhaps these would work well for crossing gates or other similar applications. I could not suggest how these could be cleaned. If it is a failure of that little post in the middle, you might try to lightly clean it with contact cleaner spray (WD 40 pro contact cleaner might be considered, or something you find locally). Use a small drop and then work the switch back and forth to see if it can be saved. As a side benefit, I use this spray to clean the track. I made a small cleaning tool out of a wood dowel and fastened a bit of scrape wool onto it. Adding a drop or two of cleaning spray goes a long way, my tip is don’t soak it as your roadbed glue may be released or damaged. Be carefully.

I am getting sidetracked, sorry.



Regarding catenary there are really no shortcuts. There are quite a bit of different components which go into this system and there seems little instructional guides out there. What I can tell you, the catenary poles are made out of non-breakable nylon or something because it seems they will flex and bend in any direction. The attaching wires on the end also seem to be well designed and up to the task. Clipping the lines to the poles is a challenge but as you do more, you will get the hang of it. Myself, I purchased a number of sets just to make sure I had what I thought I would need. I got the small cork pads for under each pole, but I think these could be DIYed if you have some extra cork. I have two train lines and a station yard and I covered it all, working only a few lines of catenary at a time. When I finally finished, I discovered the problem of removing engines and cars from the rails. (Even a derailment or stall can be a problem). This is why others create a staging yard. I don’t have a staging yard, so I removed the catenary from the station yard, just to be able to get to things easier. You can keep this in mind as you work.

Everyone is right, the z scale can be expensive and more difficult to work with, just because everything is so small. I have been interested in z scale trains for a while now, but only in the last three years have I actually worked on locomotive repairs and maintenance. I have had some successes and failures during this time. One common failure I can share, I think my first project was a railbus motor upgrade. I made certain I had the railbus parts diagram which are available from Marklin’s website. Well, of course I dropped the coupler spring and must have stepped on it in my search. (This is why I always suggest adding a small spot of super glue to the coupler post. This makes the spring and coupler one piece. But be sure to let it dry completely because I didn’t and damaged the truck housing when I assembled it with wet glue but that is another sad and expensive story.)

Well back to that spring, of course I didn’t have a spare. I don’t have a Marklin dealer in my town either. I have to mail order most everything (EBay) I had to order replacements and this was a wait. Once I had this part, I put it all back together but when I put it on the track, it would not work. When you are on your own, you just get a sinking feeling, what now you ask yourself. When this happens I put it aside for a time. I study the parts diagram or study similar models and try to discover where I messed up. These are precisely designed and assembled jewels. Overlook something and you might have disappointing results, but keep at it, ask the forum, and you will likely have a 40 year old classic running on your layout too. I have a few and nothing gives you a more satisfying feeling. For certain, they can still surprise, but to see them traveling around your newly completed layout is what it is all about.

So if you feel like you are spending a great deal of time fiddling around, I believe this is part of the train hobby. Layout assembly can be complicated, engine repairs can be real time burners, and all this can be frustrating. I can tell you, from my experience, you can do it all. Just see it thru, have patience. I had to get a magnifying head set, various tools, and even sonic cleaning equipment and things which make the process easier. I believe this could be expected no matter which scale is chosen.



Hope this long winded post helps.



Dwight

Your 88856 Class 03.10 express loco "should" run fine. Clearly something is wrong and it is surprising that Marklin did not repair it properly. They actually have a pretty good track record for fixing new locos that did not run well out of the package. But not 100%. That is a beautiful machine and Marklin has made a lot of 2' C 1' locos over the years, but I have not needed to work on any of my newer steam locos with bell shaped armature motors and finely detailed valve gear and rods. I did recently have to send a new 88889 back to my dealer twice before I got a smooth running dependable loco. The problem with that one was a deformed part so I could not fix that.
While I agree that the steamers need to run slightly faster to be really dependable on track I have many and they should not need to be pushed around the track or cough and splutter.

You said:
"I can see that a steam loco's traction system will never have the smooth running of a multi-bogey diesel American loco but to be honest this one is barely fit for purpose."

So you might want to try an AZL Mikado. A North American train. I have one and it is a fantastic running steam train. It doesn't like curves, 195 is bit tight, but mine will disprove your theory. Eh, most of my Marklin will too but the AZL are nice and can pull a lot of cars.
Or perhaps consider a Rokuhan BR181 European electric loco. I bought one early on and it helped me remain sane while I was fussing with my early collection of Marklin steamers, most of them old used eBay purchases that required work. They should come with Marklin compatible coupler parts. Mine runs terrific.

Basically saying, seek out some known great runners and tinker with your balky locos only when you feel motivated.

It's not that exact model, but a pin insertion tool often pops up on ebay here in the UK. Of course now I've said that I can't find one listed but I saw one a couple of weeks ago. Expo tools do a couple of different sizes https://www.expotools.co...in-Pusher-2mm-75110.html but I'm not sure they're suitable for Marklin track pins.

Maybe this is some help?

All the best


Chris

Today I made an expensive blunder when renewing the rails on my small test track board which is an oval using 145mm curves. I added a couple of straight switching rails with the tiny plastic pieces that locos strike as they go past to make a contact. When I put yesterday’s purchase from GM (at an attractive sale price) on the board it would hardly move, because, as I could see, the surface of the previously un-used rails needed cleaning. Instead of reaching for my 8802 track cleaning rail bus I used a track rubber managing to inadvertently rub off the tiny plastic bit on one of the switching tracks. I see no prospect of repairing it so I have just gained a very expensive 55mm straight.
The new 2-6-0T loco from the 175 year Württemberg set runs beautifully but at crawling speed tends to stop when it reaches the surviving switching straight which gives me pause for thought about using them.
GM had quite a few bargains in Z but I limited myself to just one this time. 😇
ChrisG

Good points, sometimes the hassle is worth it with Ebay items that do not come as new or in good condition. It is always worth contacting the seller if there is a problem! Most are very sensitive to a bad rating and will provide good support if they can.
For instance I bought Marklin C track (HO) from a seller and several sections were broken, seller told me that was "normal" with old C track! As I learned more about this track I realized the "set" of track I was sold was a hodgepodge of sections from different years. So I contacted the seller again about this and finally he agreed to send me replacement track of the newer vintage and some other handy items in return for a good review. Hmmm. I gave the stars but cautioned buyers to make sure what they were getting.

I have also bought a few things from gardenerjane2 - very nice seller - I've also bought from malcrosby7 and norfolkngood with happy results. Generally I don't buy locomotives on ebay - my two 8874s being exceptions both listed as non-functioning. One actually did run, the other had no motor, but both have since been remotored and all is good. I was happy to get a pair of vintage examples and the price reflected their state of repair.

The biggest potential gotcha with rolling stock is the wheels, so if the pictures don't show them to be metal I always ask. I'd never buy a "new" locomotive on ebay. Experience has taught me there's about a 50% chance that a new loco will have a fault of some sort, so it's always better to buy through an authorised dealer.

Cheers


Chris

“The biggest potential gotcha with rolling stock is the wheels, so if the pictures don't show them to be metal I always ask.”

I wonder when Marklin sold cars with plastic wheels? I was given a bunch that had them when I first started, it was a surprise added expense to convert them.

Hello. I have done a bit of research about the wheels

When Mini Club was first introduced the wheels on all wagons were made of black plastic on a metal axle. Soon after introduction, the back of the wheels was trimmed out (see photo) and these wheels were called lite plastic wheels.



This makes it easy to identify the older wagons. Unless changed by someone, the solid back wheels were found on the earlier models.

Sometime around 1979 or so, the wagon wheels were all updated to the polished metal wheels. The most current versions have a blackened surface from 2001. Here is other info about this from the Z Insider

Variants

Märklin plastic wheels installed from 1972 to 1979
From 1972 to 1974 as full wheels
From 1973, the novelties were delivered with light wheels
From 1974 to 1979 as light wheels with a recess on the inside
In 1979, the TEE Wagons received 8734, 8735, 8736 and 8738 metal wheelsets to realize interior lighting
From 1979 then metal wheels
From 1989, state railway freight wagons received spoke wheel sets
Dark nickel-plated from 2001

While there were likely many reasons why there was a move away from the plastic wheels, it is possible the black plastic, thru wear, caused a residue on the track surface which interfered with the electrical contact of the locomotives.

Whatever the reason, we all know it is very easy to switch out the wheel sets whenever you want to. If originality is your primary goal, you can make a switch for the polished or blackened ones, but keep the original ones under the nest of your box.

Hope this helps

Take good care.

Dwight

Hi Chris, sorry to bother you, but I have inherited a Toporama Marklin 8930. Unfortunately I don't have a track layout with circuit track and signals. Is it possible you could send me the one you used for your Toporama? I would be forever grateful. My email is jlasob@bbgschile.com or if you want you can publish it here. happy holidays