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Offline luckas  
#1 Posted : 03 May 2021 12:13:46(UTC)
luckas


Joined: 06/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: ,
Greetings friends,

So I've successfully placed contact tracks at the beginning and end of the 4 tracks in my station area, using a Link S88 as discussed here:

https://www.marklin-user...act-Track-Placement-Help

I've also managed some basic automation with my new CS3. Train enters station, brakes when it hits K1, stops at K2 which switches some turnouts, starts a train at K3, etc.

The only problem, of course, is that the automation in CS3 appears to be "train dependant". I can only create an event that moves a particular locomotive, not just any locomotive that is sitting on a contact track. If I want to control blocks independent of locomotive using CS3 events, I would need to include an M84 and isolate power. Is that correct?

If so, then I think I understand why software such as Rocrail is so useful, as it only needs contact tracks for automation, with signals purely cosmetic.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. I had hoped to be able to create generic events in the CS3 using contact tracks and the Link S88.

Advice / help gratefully received.

Paul
Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 03 May 2021 12:20:40(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Hmmm, I need to watch the webinar again on YouTube about setting up events. Seems I recall them checking a box for all locomotives run in event, or it should be standard unless you select only certain locos for an event.
Offline luckas  
#3 Posted : 03 May 2021 12:32:29(UTC)
luckas


Joined: 06/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: ,
Interesting - thanks. I've only managed to create an event where I literally 'drag' a loco into the timeline, but I'm happy to be corrected. I've done a lot of 'youtubing' on the subject but it seems that almost all use signals (with m84s I guess).

Paul
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by luckas
Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 03 May 2021 12:40:52(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, I guess I presumed you had a signal. Sorry. Do you have another relay to cut power to the block section?
I haven't wired anything in yet. Dies the CS3 have block switching without a relay or signal or decoder?
Offline luckas  
#5 Posted : 03 May 2021 12:51:05(UTC)
luckas


Joined: 06/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: ,
I'm just using contact tracks and a Link S88 at this stage.

There's a very good thread here, which you may have seen already:

https://www.marklin-user...locks-and-contact-tracks

Paul
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#6 Posted : 03 May 2021 13:34:31(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 750
Location: Täby
There are some interesting possibilities with CS3 in automation. But in computer software you can do more, since the program keps track of where each train is on the layout. If you run just one train on the track you can automate a sequence where the train slows down, stops etc. But then a CS3 is probably already a bit of overkill.
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 03 May 2021 15:00:15(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,501
Location: Paris, France
Hi Paul
Yes I agree, so far, all automation made using a CS3 is train-dependent. There are a few new tricks to make it less so (by adding a condition - for instance a switch position to an event.

Only software like Rocrail make automation truly loco-independent. It goes even further:
- Rocrail can compute the length of each train to see if a block can accept it
- Rocrail checks the type of energy so as not to send an electric loco to a block without overhead line
and much more.

So indeed Märklin tries to add functions to the events (see the new macros associated with events (OR, AND, LOOP, RANDOM, BLOCK) but as long as it does not updates each loco's location, a true automation is not feasible.

Here is an example of automatic operation with Rocrail that is totally impossible to make with a CS3 alone



I like Rocrail a lot as it gives huge possibilities (humping yard, loco-dependent positioning for watering steam engines, etc


Cheers
Jean



My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Crazy Harry  
#8 Posted : 04 May 2021 00:41:01(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 400
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Here's a link to the YouTube channel to see the webinars prepared by the US Marklin Digital gurus: Marklin Trains YouTube Channel

I believe these are the webinars that marklinist5999 is referring to. Programming events is covered in #7 and #8.

I haven't watched them. I hope they may answer your question.

Harold.
Offline Tie  
#9 Posted : 04 May 2021 17:39:12(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
Will not debate what is best for automation. However I get a lot of fun programming the cs3. I can set up routes for 4 trains. Having them to run their routes. Stopping at stations, waiting for their next block to be free/released by incoming train coming to the station in opposite direction. Then setting nex block to occupied and entering it on their way to next station. Do not hawe the pretty layout but setup😀 but look at my two videos on youtube. Search for Thor Inge Eie
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Tie
Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 05 May 2021 10:00:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,406
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: luckas Go to Quoted Post
The only problem, of course, is that the automation in CS3 appears to be "train dependant". I can only create an event that moves a particular locomotive, not just any locomotive that is sitting on a contact track. If I want to control blocks independent of locomotive using CS3 events, I would need to include an M84 and isolate power. Is that correct?
The full paragraph is not correct

While an event may need to have a locomotive to act as a placeholder, and it is used if you call the even manually..

The CS3, and CS2, provide for the event/memory to inherit the locomotive id of a calling Locomotive function.

e.g.
Event created referencing Loco 103
You may define F21 on loco 232 to refer to the event/memory.

When you select F21 on loco 232 it calls the event/loco and that loco will be the target of any programmed loco command.


That is probably not the answer you were after, as you still have have a way to track which loco is where.
But it does offer a solution.

Other considerations come into play if you wish to do a one event for all.
If the sequence includes a slowdown and stop using the locos own decceration settings, then you need to set all your locos to the same setting for it to look good.

Peter
Offline luckas  
#11 Posted : 05 May 2021 10:32:09(UTC)
luckas


Joined: 06/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 172
Location: ,
So let me get this straight. I can create a loco function that calls an event that was created with another loco as its placeholder, and it will run it for the locomotive on which the function exists? And I could create that function on all locomotives that I wanted to run this event with, possibly taking into consideration variables such as deceleration.

Paul
Offline clapcott  
#12 Posted : 05 May 2021 10:59:33(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,406
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: luckas Go to Quoted Post
So let me get this straight.

Essentially correct.

your terminology re "creating a function" might better read "setting up a(n unused) function ..."

This inheriting became available with the CS2 and I giave the Function concept as the first mover.

In the CS3 the inheriting also applies to any(sic? I haven't checked all permutations) chaining of macros.
There are some quircks and the recent updates release notes speak to some bug fixes in the area.

Specifically, you can prime the "Braking Macro" in a similar way.

Peter
Offline Tie  
#13 Posted : 06 May 2021 14:18:08(UTC)
Tie

Norway   
Joined: 28/09/2019(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Rogaland, Haugesund
It is possible with cs3 to define vitual contacts. Similar as for S88, however the virual ones are set in the events programming(on/off) I use one such contact for each block. In general at startup all blocks are set to free(contact off) except the ones occupied by trains. When starting a train on a routein an event) the program is: check if first block is free(program will wait until it is) if or when free next command is to set it on(occupied) then same for all blocks required for the train to get to the next passing area/station. Then Program required turnouts to correct position and set train to go. Then program event to until train hits second blocks S88 contact. This indicating previous block is free. Program relevant vitual sensor to free/off making it possible for orher trains/events to use the block. This may be extended for as long as you want. My layout is to circles and i generally program all routes back to start point. It is then possibly to have cs3 to repeat program as many times as you wish. I have made this work with 5 trains simultanously. Running their routes but patiently waiting at stations/passing areas until required blocks necessary to reach next staition is free and trserved for the specific train. If anybody find this interesting I can detail some more. There are some more details to consider.
TIE
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