<font face="Verdana][size=2]That may be true. Still, 2008 and 2009 (so far) are the ONLY recent years EVER that I was genuinely interested in new Märklin! The Märklin stores that popped up looked very nice and befitting for a premium brand. They have some absolutely great models in the Hobby range, they have very nice starter kits and the overall catalogue is very nice indeed. In short, while I have not so much LOOKED at new Märklin since the early '70s, the current catalogue and branding of the company inspired me enough to actually buy new stuff (i.e. a starter set, the expansion sets C2-C5, a Ludmilla, a V80, and a Mobile Station). If you'd told me 3 years ago that by now I would have bought all this, I'd have laughed. Three years ago I actually sort of wanted the company to go down, because I was a bit ashamed of what they had to offer. But now, for the first time in 30-odd years, I find myself proud of current Märklin. Not only that, but I find myself as drawn to (part of) the current product line as I am to my old '60s models, and that's definitely emotion.

So I dunno if the consultants are to blame, or instead if they are the ones who got the improvements through that I like so much. Who knows? Either way, I hope that the company will pull through, because what they have to offer now is damn good and it smokes the competition.</font id="Verdana]

Looking at them <u>very </u>closely Athearn BB & Marklin BB are not the same object .

Now I would like to make an experience : making them running 15 hours a day and see which one stops and fails the first + the reason of the fail .

This kind of experience have been made already with other models .
Marklin Models or Fleischmann models show the longest running time before something broke .
The most interesting was not only how long it last .
The most instructive was : the reason why the models broke , which part , how , etc...

I find reading the point-counter point in this thread exhausting especially in view of the situation but I also realize the contributors are well-intended.

I'm interested only in the way forward and wish the employees, owners and the legacy of Marklin well in staying a going-concern for another 150 years.

"I can believe anything, provided that it is quite incredible." -Oscar Wilde

I can't believe that the scale of 1:87 is even remotely related to a discussion thread about Marklin financing. Yikkes.

It is the R1-curse that put the jinx on Marklin in the end

For those who would like to expand the thread regarding models, prices and relative quality, desirability etc, I have started a new topic - Models - relative quality and relative price https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...ult.aspx?g=posts&t=12227

regards
Kimball

Ditto
more specifically the German market..

If they want to expand their sales, they need to start thinking about how to capture more marketshare outside EU.

If the croc set is now sold out maybe making more would be a good idea to increase sales. Small runs for collectors are fine but if there is a chance to sell more then go for it.
Being a German firm it follows that their product will be items from Germany,Switzerland,Austria etc which is why I buy their models. If you want to buy Australian trains then buy from an Australian manufacturer. It is unlikely that Marklin will manufactrure in small amounts just to please a few folk outside Europe when the firm has difficulties as it is.

Yes, Lutz' sales information is enlightening. Basically, what buried Marklin in the last couple of years was bad management and expensive consultants. Someone smart that understands the market can take those latest numbers and manage to a profitable line. The economies of scale are certainly there. That's why there is a lot of hope. My personal dealer's sales were up 10% last year, after being on a rough road before.

I was in Doerfler's shop (Nuernburg) on Friday late afternoon Feb 6 and he did not seem worried at all, and was having a meeting with other dealers that night where of course the situation would be discussed. I actually ran into my dealer there also-slightly embarrassing meeting your dealer at another shop!!!!!

On the other hand I saw Huib Maaskant (whom many of you must know) a Dutch journalist earlier the same day, and he was all doom and gloom! But he had yet to do a scheduled interview of the people at Marklin.

And to complement the picture:

End 2002: 170,5 Mio.€
End 2003: 164,4 Mio.€
End 2004: 148,5 Mio.€

As Lutz says, the problems was there before Kingsbridge took over (2006). From what I understand there was a general drop in the MRR-market in Germany. Maybe some of our German friends can help us to explain why there was such a rapid decline?

It would be hard for any company to be able to react to such swift and dramatic changes, and I guess Roco and Fleischmann didn't manage much better than Märklin.

But it has now been four years with about the same turnover for Märklin, still their losses have continued to grow. In that respect, the advisors that Kingsbridge hired (cost 40 Mio.€ 2006-08) have obviously not been very cost-efficient.

I see that this thread is now a discussion about scale, but as I said before, I think that the new owners (that we hopefully soon we'll see) will focus primarily on getting a cost-structure that goes with a 130 Mio.€ turnover...

/Torbjörn

Speculation now drifts toward Porsche: http://www.wer-kauft-wen.de/meldung/21077.html

Sorry a bit off-topic, but it has happend to me several times with other things (not MRR stuff) that what I look for is "sold out". When I ask why, I get the answer: "There was no request". I.e., "sold out" means the first batch sold so slowly that the dealer didn't bother to order another batch. Don't know if it applies to 1:87 coaches though.

This would be great! Porsche shares the traditional values, betting on quality and craftmanship. Plus, they have a bunch of cash and a bank. At least until 2007, not too sure how it's going today, one crisis and VW purchase afterward.
Plus, I have a 911 Turbo, so this would be a great conjunction for my own pride of ownership on both!

There is some great marketing possibility's too. How a bout a Store in a Store at your local Porsche dealer ship. And now you have a good distribution network for the US and other countries. Give a starter set with new car purchase. Its a very strong cross over market.

I must keep you in remind here,that Brawa lok has more richer details than Marklin model you did choised like other models too...!!!
So Luis,you cannot acting like this...!

Goofy [:(!]

Perz,

I was not referring to "out of stock", I was referring to "no longer available". Out of stock simply means that the dealer doesn't have any. No longer available means they can't get it anymore and you have to look around until you find one.

And to the other members:

I NEVER SAID THAT THE FAILURE OF MAERKLIN TO COMPETE IN THE 1:87 SCALE WAS THE MAIN CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM, BUT THAT IT WAS ONE OF MANY COMTRIBUTING FACTORS. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF?????

Regards

Mike C

<br />

Ok, I hate to have to say this... but if we adjusted Marklin's performance to the German inflation rate between end of 2005 to 2008, Marklin's total sale actually experienced a slight decline.

In 2006 - inflation was 2% - so to maintain same level of sales, Marklin would have to sell around 125.5 million. With total sale of 124 million, in real money terms - this is a decline of around 1.2% compared to previous year.

Overall, since the end of 2005 to end of 2008 - despite the slight increase in sales, adjusted to inflation, Marklin actually loss around 1.74% of sales revenue compared to the base year 2005.

At the very least - this shown a stability in their market, but not actually a reason enough to celebrate.
This will be one of the most basic calculations that the banks looked into when they refused to extend Marklin's credit line.

Mmmm, yes, otherwise you will punish me, right? For my terrible wrongdoing? Sorry for being such a bad boy...

BTW, how's the weather in Mars these days?

Untill 2007 Fleischman's turnover were going down years after years .
It starts to be stabilized in 2007 ...

This would be a really good thing.

As many of the wealthy locals have Porsches and are Porsche mad... - these owners could get into the MRR hobby as well. Currently no one in the region really cares much for MRR - No dealers, no intetest, no nothing.. But if MRR is associated with Porsche in some way, this may be an excellent catalyst, (if marketed properly) to get the locals intetested and buy heaps of M products.
It is the ideal new market - the guys still have cash, mostly have huge houses (plenty of space for layouts, even one gauge layouts) and we all spend a heap of time indoors because of the weather. So there is the perfect recipe for a possible lucrative new M market.[^][^]

Now your talking

My money was always on Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy.

I'm not from Germany but I have visited Germany many times over the years. Some time around 2003 Germany had some kind of home-brewn economic crisis. You could read about it in the Swedish newspapers, but it became really appearent when you met the people there in the summer of 2003. Not just one person I met said something like: "We are still going, but for how long ?" It was really a doom-of-the-nation sentiment. Germany have recovered since then, but it does not automatically bring back sales to Märklin.

Some comments on the scale discussion and its possible connection to Märklin's problems:

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I know maybe 5 serious model railroaders, apart from those I have learnt to know through this forum. Of these 5, 2 are N-scalers, 2 are H0 2-railers since forever, and one is a 2-railer who converted from Märklin in the 70's or 80's. They are mostly into American models although they have European models as well.

I know a bunch of people who have a small model railroad which spends most of its time stowed away. Sometimes some of those people take it out and build temporary carpet layouts. A few of them have set up semi-permanent layouts now and then, often low-effort layouts. All of those people have Märklin except one, who has a Pico set.

I also know a lot of people that don't have a model railroad but say they would like one. "When I get a larger apartment". "When the kids are big enough to enjoy it". "When my economic situation gets better". "When I get the time". For all of those there is Märklin and only Märklin. They know of nothing else.

So where is Märklin's market: Have the carpetbahn guys buy an extra lok and some extra track. Have those only-dreamers go and buy a starter set. That's where the market is. But Märklin does not reach that market because Märklin is not out there. They are in the hobby stores and on the Internet, not in the toy stores anymore. It suites us who are already in, but you don't get new customers that way.

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The local toy store has started to sell Märklin. Again. I used to buy some Märklin from them 12-15 years ago, before EU and the common market made it easier to buy directly from Germany. I got tired of the local toy store. They had very little in stock. They promised to order thing for me, but often the items never showed up. It was always "next week". The store got tired of Märklin and its Swedish distributor, because items they had ordered showed up very randomly. I once happened to see what they paid for the things. Their margin was below 10%. And they were still a lot more expensive than the German web shops. Actually they paid prices well over what the German web shops sold the same items for.

As already said, the same store has started to sell Märklin again. I don't understand it. It is only behind the counter, not exposed in any way. They have very few items. Prices are ridiculous. They know nothing at all about it, they hardly know that they have it. It is out there again, physically, but to what use ? I go there now and then (it is generally a good toy store), ask for the price of a lok or a starter set, tell them they are too expensive. That's it. I can see that they have the items on the shelf, because I look for it. But who else would ever observe it ?

Of all other Swedish toy (not hobby) stores I have visited the last 5 years exactly none has had any Märklin or other MRR at all.

Don't blame the Video games. Märklin has to go out there and fight for the kids' and parents' attention!

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In comparison to that, I think 1:100 or 1:87 is a very marginal question, although I share Mike's opinion that it is better to have a 1:100 and a 1:87 version than a 1:93 version that won't really satisfy any of the customer categories. It is better for the customers at least. If it is really better for Märklin, I don't know.

If you raise it from the question of this specific example, Mike is proposing "segmentation", and that is generally a good idea for a company with Märklins market position. The problem with explaining a principle with an example is that people attack the example and ignore the principle.