Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline bmc1275  
#1 Posted : 30 April 2020 10:03:45(UTC)
bmc1275

Japan   
Joined: 13/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Tokyo, Tokyo
I am using M track with CS2, to connect M track turn out and transfer table, I did like attached diagram. Everything seems working OK. However, I am not sure whether this is OK or not. Because my TGV POS 37790 mysteriously had some misbehaviour and funny smell. After that, LED in the car was dimmed (It had an accident and one of the wire was pulled, may be this is causing something).

Can I have your opinion or advice for this?


Marklin Electrical circuit.pdf (227kb) downloaded 60 time(s).

Circuit.jpg

Edited by moderator 01 May 2020 09:33:55(UTC)  | Reason: Image added to post for convenience

Offline LoeM  
#2 Posted : 30 April 2020 22:12:13(UTC)
LoeM

Netherlands   
Joined: 18/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Zuid-Holland
I think it's not wise to combine a digital and analog circuit with each other. The central station and the Titan Transformer share the ground.
It's possible this is disturbing digital signals from the CS2.
In the manual of the CS2 is a safe instruction: The CS2 must not be powered simultaneously from more than one power supply.
Also in the manual of the TGV POS, SNCF | Spoor H0 - Art.nr. 37790: This locomotive must never be supplied with power from
more than one transformer.
My advice: split the circuits. Don't use the M track for feeding analog bulbs in signals or switches. Give them a separate ground wire.


Best whishes
Leo
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by LoeM
Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 30 April 2020 22:53:07(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Leo you are absolutely correct in showing the danger that the full power (i.e.: both poles) of an AC source poses when it is connected to a digital source. The digital source (CS1, CS2, CS3, rail box will "burn".

On the other hand it is also Märklin's official solution to drive their grade crossing in a digital environment by connecting the "Ground" (O or Brown) to both the digital source and the 0 plug of a Märklin transformer. The other transformer pole (Yellow of +16 VAC) is connected only to the yellow plug of the grade crossing.

With a neat cabling it is all fine. This is because the transformer is very well insulated from the digital source (floating voltage). This is also what we do when we connect all O poles of our digital layout no matter how many boosters we have and provided the B (or red) is specific to each booster zone.
Cheers
Jean
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline bmc1275  
#4 Posted : 01 May 2020 01:53:27(UTC)
bmc1275

Japan   
Joined: 13/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Tokyo, Tokyo
Originally Posted by: LoeM Go to Quoted Post
I think it's not wise to combine a digital and analog circuit with each other. The central station and the Titan Transformer share the ground.
It's possible this is disturbing digital signals from the CS2.
In the manual of the CS2 is a safe instruction: The CS2 must not be powered simultaneously from more than one power supply.
Also in the manual of the TGV POS, SNCF | Spoor H0 - Art.nr. 37790: This locomotive must never be supplied with power from
more than one transformer.
My advice: split the circuits. Don't use the M track for feeding analog bulbs in signals or switches. Give them a separate ground wire.


Best whishes
Leo


Thank you very much for your opinion. Yes, you are correct about not powering the same track from two power source. That is why I make yellow line from transformer absolutely separated from the track. However, it is not easy to insulate M track turnout bulbs alone as bulbs are using rail itself as a ground.
Offline bmc1275  
#5 Posted : 01 May 2020 01:59:15(UTC)
bmc1275

Japan   
Joined: 13/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Tokyo, Tokyo
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi

Leo you are absolutely correct in showing the danger that the full power (i.e.: both poles) of an AC source poses when it is connected to a digital source. The digital source (CS1, CS2, CS3, rail box will "burn".

On the other hand it is also Märklin's official solution to drive their grade crossing in a digital environment by connecting the "Ground" (O or Brown) to both the digital source and the 0 plug of a Märklin transformer. The other transformer pole (Yellow of +16 VAC) is connected only to the yellow plug of the grade crossing.

With a neat cabling it is all fine. This is because the transformer is very well insulated from the digital source (floating voltage). This is also what we do when we connect all O poles of our digital layout no matter how many boosters we have and provided the B (or red) is specific to each booster zone.
Cheers
Jean


Thank you very much for your info. Yesterday, my friend gave me exactly the same info and advice. My circuit is ok but make absolutely sure that transformer yellow is separated from CS2 red. If they short circuited, CS2 will burn.

Offline dominator  
#6 Posted : 01 May 2020 07:52:53(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,195
Location: Kerikeri
I HAVE RUN ALL MY POINTS FROM A BLUE TRANSFORMER FOR YEARS. i CAN RUN THE LOCOS FROM 2 ms2'S AT THE SAME TIME WITHOUT INTERFERENCE. Go ahead and wire it correctly. The same earthing on both systems works well. My set up has been working in analogue since 2000, and i added the MS2's about 4 years ago never looked back.

Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dominator
Offline Johnvr  
#7 Posted : 01 May 2020 10:47:03(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi,

The circuit looks fine to me.
Remember that it is quite acceptable to run a digital circuit on the centre rail and an analog circuit on catenary and both of them using the same ground.
You circuit looks similar to me.

RegardsBigGrin
John
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Johnvr
Offline bmc1275  
#8 Posted : 01 May 2020 12:07:34(UTC)
bmc1275

Japan   
Joined: 13/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Tokyo, Tokyo
Originally Posted by: dominator Go to Quoted Post
I HAVE RUN ALL MY POINTS FROM A BLUE TRANSFORMER FOR YEARS. i CAN RUN THE LOCOS FROM 2 ms2'S AT THE SAME TIME WITHOUT INTERFERENCE. Go ahead and wire it correctly. The same earthing on both systems works well. My set up has been working in analogue since 2000, and i added the MS2's about 4 years ago never looked back.

Dereck


Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I also have blue transformer which is very old, but working fine. I like the digital very much however, I sometimes miss simplicity of Analogue.
Offline bmc1275  
#9 Posted : 01 May 2020 12:12:13(UTC)
bmc1275

Japan   
Joined: 13/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Tokyo, Tokyo
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

The circuit looks fine to me.
Remember that it is quite acceptable to run a digital circuit on the centre rail and an analog circuit on catenary and both of them using the same ground.
You circuit looks similar to me.

RegardsBigGrin
John


Thank you very much for your confirmation! Very encouraging.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 01 May 2020 12:45:33(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi
With very old Märklin transformers, the critical point is to check the power cord. Those made around 1950 had a rubber-like insulation / coating that may come apart and be dangerous.
Before this power cords were made of fabric insulation also very dangerous.
The replacement must be made in a professional manner especially if used by children.
Cheers
Jean
Offline bph  
#11 Posted : 01 May 2020 15:15:06(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Hi

you might find Märklin technical tip 405, useful (in German)
https://www.maerklin.de/fileadmin/media/service/faq/Technik-Tipp-405.pdf
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline bmc1275  
#12 Posted : 01 May 2020 16:11:32(UTC)
bmc1275

Japan   
Joined: 13/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Tokyo, Tokyo
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Hi

you might find Märklin technical tip 405, useful (in German)
https://www.maerklin.de/fileadmin/media/service/faq/Technik-Tipp-405.pdf


Thank you very much for your info!


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bmc1275
bph
Offline aswap5  
#13 Posted : 27 March 2021 15:16:19(UTC)
aswap5

India   
Joined: 14/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 32
Sorry for a very delayed post/question: if I use an entirely separate analogue circuit for motorised c-track points (turnouts) and digital for train operation with an ms2 it should be safe right? Thanks
Ashok
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.570 seconds.