As a railroad modeller, your modelling interests are generally private unless you take your layout to one of the many Train Shows or Layout Exhibitions.

In which case it is your choice to show something that may or may not encroach on other peoples sensibilities.

There are German railway prototypes in museums showing the 1938 extended Eagle synonomous with that era.
There are production models the same.
So in my opinion your modelling interests are your choice entirely.

Kimball

Hello,

My other hobby addiction is RC Model Warship Combat. My family fleet is ~50/50 between US and German ships. My Scharnhorst, her sister Gneisenau (1942 mod w/ Bismarck 15" cannon) and my Admiral Hipper all sport WW1 Imperial markings (hard to see in 1/144 scale). At public events, no one has ever expressed a problem with folks having German ships from WW II.

The only time I've ever seen someone raise a concern, was when a friend purchased a Bismarck from someone else in the hobby and brought it to the club's next battle. The model was originally painted with the big red and black swastika on the bow, similar to the historical ship. My friend didn't think much about it, until a visitor at the event expressed their opinion that the markings were inappropriate. By the next month's event, the deck was sanded clean and refinished. Bismarck has been wreaking havoc with the allied fleet for over ten years now, without any further comments as to her heritage.

So, I agree with Kimball. There is nothing wrong with modeling something from that era. If you do decide to take your models into the public, it's the symbols on them that can evoke feelings. BTW, I have a panzer division train loosely based upon the 130th Panzer Lehr. (Yes, at one point I was a serious war gamer). It's a hypothetical BR53 with a slowly growing collection of flat cars and 1/87 scale mechanized vehicles. The models all have period markings with iron crosses ... no swastikas.

I'm not sure if I will ever take this train to a show, but I have no shame in owning it. It represents a time in my life where I spent countless hours pushing the cursed allies back into the English Channel (Avalon Hill's Longest Day). Actually though, short of getting extremely lucky on weather die rolls or playing the Rommel setup scenario where mechanized units are near the beaches, the allies invariably win an extremely brutal battle of attrition by the end of the summer

The engine I like from the period is Marklins 3469/3769 E19 electric in that dark red. Along with the passenger cars it pulled.

That is a model of a museum loco. And AFAIK it was never operational in that museum livery.

For a red era II version, look at 39192. 39193 is the museum livery again.

Modelling war and creating realistic displays is not wrong.
Glorifying nazism and killing is!
Modelling a concentration camp with perfectly created details of preiserleins being graphically tortured and murdered is just sick...

However... The subject is sooo big. F.x. one might want to model the POW camp from the TV-series Hogans Heroes. I dont think anybody would think badly of that.

The black humour series ´Allo ´Allo ran for several years, complete with SS and Gestapo atroceties.

I remember seeing a video on Youtube of a complete H0 railroad layout based on the castle and theme of Where eagles dare.

I find all of these things OK. It´s simply a question of when things become tasteless, which means that the fine line is very personal.
I´m with Dale; If you have to ask, then you have probably already passed the line of the majority of people.

Answering the OP´s question specifically;

I would find that completly OK.

Sorry for butting in, I'm not Tom, but could it be that this is or was actually a black and white picture that was partially colored at a later stage? It seems unusual to me that only certain parts in the image are remarkably red, while for instance the visible skins of the staff around the locomotive are white. The track and ground in the foreground also don't show any kind of vegetation and rust etc.

Hi, all.

I have two similar E-Loks: E 18 and DB 118. One silver and the other beige and blue. Both from Marklin SOMO set 3667. None supplied with the Whermacht insignia.
I understood that on some E-Loks the badge was supplied lose in the box, for the owner to apply on the loko if they wanted.
I also understood Liliput and Roco supplied the "bage" loosely.
Nowhere could I find that item listed on any parts list, as I wanted to apply the badge one of my E-lokos.

For me I do not see any harm in doing so. The past is gone..............
If all "wrong doings" on this world have to be avoided we would not get anywhere, or return to the dark ages.
Just refer to certain technologies, chemistry and cars. Those are used and accepted all over the world.

In any case why are some people not offended by many model planes assembled, painted, de-called and exhibited as such all over the world.??
Just mentioning this, as the mistakes of this country, South Africa, is thrown into my face every day, and I was not even born then.

Let us move on, and show more sensitivity to what is to come of an overpopulated world.

Thanks,

HANNES.

( No offence intended)

AFAIK Maerklin has never supplied any of their post WW2 models with the Hakenkreuz to be applied later. I own all of the E18 Era 2 period correct models produced by Mother M. Had you applied the Hakenkreuz to your models, that would have been anachronistic, as these are Era 3 items.

The DB museum has the E18 on display with the Hakenkreuz on the front of the model. So although it is not currently legal to produce items with this logo in Germany, the museum has the historically correct treatment on display.

And much like things from that time frame in Germany, the Confederate battle flag also can get strong reactions these days. I do wish Marklin would make a model of the Italian 2-8-0 that was used in Von Ryan's Express, one of the better WWII movies with a train in it, along we several star actors. And yes, on a 1930's era layout, the focus would be on the trains and exclude certain types of trains as there is no need to model certain things. There was even a railroad in the USA that used that now hated cross that AH used. The Chicago Attica and Southern, a small obsure coal hauling line along the Indiana/Illinois state line used it in their logo on the tenders. Long before it became a symbol of hate. He soon when funds permit, I will pickup one of the 3469/3769 electrics and maybe a later DR engine from more modern times. Just certain engines are attractive to me for their looks and no so much that time frame. My railways always seem to end up with a railway museum look or I switch up the era to run different locomotives. Mike

Are they?
Rules are somewhat strict in Germany - and Märklin probably won't make models they cannot sell in their main market.

I just love Era II models, kind of the time period when train travel was the thing.
New steamer, electric and diesel designs were made during that Era and continued to be used long into Era III and even IV, plus older Era I locos were carried over to new designation numbers in Germany.

Not to mention all the experimental ones as eg the rail Zeppelin, Franco-Crosti boiler locos and so on...
Even the UP "Big Boy" is an Era II loco...

Since the '80s they come without swastikas in Germany.

There are also many models of Imperial Japanese war machines displaying the rising sun flag on the market.

There are some WWII Marklin trains now on EBAY showing the Nazi swastika.

I don’t even know where to start:

Developed in the 1930s (while constructed in 1929 AFAIK), plywood, a U-boat Diesel engine powering a high revolution propeller, a “test bed” that ran only once on tracks?

What is the source for this please?

Yes, from the Wiki source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schienenzeppelin

From the book I recall reading about, it was not the Rail Zeppelin itself, but rather the design team that was secretly working on the U-Boat engines. They excused the long hours and laboratory work as being part of the Rail Zeppelin project, while in fact the were working on the U-Boat diesel engine design.

So, while this remarkable train, ahead of its time, did make speed runs across Germany, it never entered into regular service. The plywood sides saved on weight.

It didn't have a diesel engine while it had a propeller. I found no source about plywood, German sources say it was painted fabric.

(1) This implies a Nazi connection, while the Schienenzeppelin construction and early "online" tests pre-dated 1933, when they seized power in Germany.

(2) And the picture shows an armored train. What is the connection to the apocryphal gold train please?

The wired.com and wikipedia links you gave are contradicting.

I have a book, somewhere that I will have to dig up. The front section of the Zeppelin Train had plywood cutouts for the lights and front end, it was not all stretched canvas and paint.

Gold train, well....Nazis and Trains. So, why not?

As for that red engine, I thought it was an actual production locomotive, covered with that sleek armored looking streamline. It was supposed to go 90 mph and pull coaches loaded with soldiers? Is that all made up? No!

The loco has a streamlined shell to make it run faster, but it is not armoured. It was built in peacetime. It was a last-ditch effort of the steam loco industry to fight against the upcoming diesel locos and diesel railcars. Class 05 was painted red, but class 03.10 was not.
Phantasy livery. Not an armoured loco. Not built for soldier trains. Not all made up.

believing that there is a left wing cancel culture in our own era is not only why we need to remember the past but is probably worse than someone modelling the past.

I believe E19 to be era II, but that’s not really relevant to the original question. Seems like an odd question to me, the vehicles are just vehicles they’re not evil. You can appreciate the engineering without endorsing the regimes they were involved in.

That is exactly what I did a couple of years ago. I really wanted that museum E 19 loco in dark red, but its past did bother me, as it would any sane person IMO.

But it really was a beautiful machine that just came along at the wrong time. Mine has the Nazi era Reichsadler on the front in bold silver, but inside of the circle that the eagle sits on there is just a round disk.

In for a penny and in for a pound I needed some coaches and I bought a three year old Insider coach set of the D12, which are beautiful. They have the same Reichsadler on their sides as the loco does, so at least they are not completely accurate. But the eagle design is iconic and you can't see it without knowing what it represents.

However in my final analysis I decided just what Suart did, that it is a machine worth appreciating, while abhorring the time it came from.

So voting with my models I now have just one train from that time and it is beautiful, but I believe that one will be enough.

That's not the issue. Part of the eagle-logo is that the eagle is sitting on top of a circle that has the swastika inside it. It seems like Märklin has chosen NOT to represent that part of the logo, but people in the know "see" it anyway, as that is what the original logo had!