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Offline waterslip  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2021 03:38:34(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello Community,
I recently upgraded my layout to digital; I am using a Marklin 6021 with a Transformer 6001, the layout has 13 turnouts, I have connected 7 of them with 74491 mechanisms (and light 74471) all to the left 2 terminals on the 6001 Transformer, the turnouts are controlled using 72710 control switches. And I am operating 2 locos.

So far everything has been working perfectly until I added 6 more 74491 mechanisms (total 13 with lights) and connected them the same way to the transformer 6001 like the rest however that seems to have damaged my control Unit 6021 and it is no longer working, I hear it clicks but no lights come on Confused .

I would like operate the layout with 13 turnouts equipped with 74491 using a 6021 and 6001.
For the wiring of turnouts and lights I combined them (yellow with yellow and brown with brown) using 26AWG wire extensions to the Transformer 6001.
The Layout is average 65 feet in track length on an 8 by 12 foot table and has 1 feeder track connected to a 6021 and 13 turnouts which has always worked perfectly.

My question is:
1. What have caused the damage to the Control Unit 6021? What was wrong with the setup?
2. How should the wiring be done ? Do I have all the necessary equipment ? How can I get the layout to function properly ? I want to keep using my 6021 and analog control of turnouts.

The wiring of turnouts under the layout
l_1234.png

THe Transformer, Control Unit and Switches
Controller.jpg
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 05 February 2021 04:42:36(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Generally speaking you should never feed anything other than the 6021 from the transformer connected to the 6021. Use a separate transformer for your lights and turnouts.

Hopefully it is just an overload situation you have and no other damage has been done. Try removing some of the lights / turnouts you installed and see if that helps.

At worst you might have inadvertently connected (touched) a yellow wire to the red track output which could mean you've blown the output transistors in the 6021. There are threads on the forum on how to fix that if it has happened so not all is lost.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline PJMärklin  
#3 Posted : 05 February 2021 05:19:39(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Hello Community,
I recently upgraded my layout to digital; I am using a Marklin 6021 with a Transformer 6001, the layout has 13 turnouts, I have connected 7 of them with 74491 mechanisms (and light 74471) all to the left 2 terminals on the 6001 Transformer, the turnouts are controlled using 72710 control switches. And I am operating 2 locos.

So far everything has been working perfectly until I added 6 more 74491 mechanisms (total 13 with lights) and connected them the same way to the transformer 6001 like the rest however that seems to have damaged my control Unit 6021 and it is no longer working, I hear it clicks but no lights come on Confused .

I would like operate the layout with 13 turnouts equipped with 74491 using a 6021 and 6001.
For the wiring of turnouts and lights I combined them (yellow with yellow and brown with brown) using 26AWG wire extensions to the Transformer 6001.
The Layout is average 65 feet in track length on an 8 by 12 foot table and has 1 feeder track connected to a 6021 and 13 turnouts which has always worked perfectly.

My question is:
1. What have caused the damage to the Control Unit 6021? What was wrong with the setup?
2. How should the wiring be done ? Do I have all the necessary equipment ? How can I get the layout to function properly ? I want to keep using my 6021 and analog control of turnouts.



Hi Waterslip,

I also run my digital setup with control unit 6021. I also use the same transformer as you (amongst other transformers and boosters), noting that my Märklin transformer whilst giving 230v , I expect performs the same as yours. Whilst many use the keyboard units (and Memory units) to change turnouts, your setup should still work fine. Also, whilst most folk would use an independent transformer to power turnouts and accessories (thus sparing the power to the 6021), the 42 VA from your transformer should be adequate for your described loads:

UserPostedImage

Both the transformer and the Control Unit have internal circuitry to protect against short circuit - they just turn the units off.

I note Biddaddy has provided a germane reply whilst I have been preparing this reply ! From your described events you may also have a shortcircuit somewhere, possibly involving the connections of your most recent additions. When this occurs in your accessories the transformer will shut down. When this occurs in the 6021 output connections (track and digital accessories) the unit shuts down and the top righthand red light on the 6021 "goes out" but will come on again transiently when you again try to "turn on" the 6021 with the green "go" button if the shortcircuit persists.

You can test if this issue comes from the accessories run from the transformer direct or from the 6021 connections:
- if you disconnect the 6021 (mains power to the transformer should be off while you connect or disconnect the 6021) from the transformer, do the lights and turnouts work?
- if you disconnect the transformer direct accessories (turnouts and lights) from the transformer but maintain connection between the transformer and 6021 and remove your 2 locos from the track does the 6021 work (top righthand side red light illuminates) ?

Regards,

PJ
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PJMärklin
Offline waterslip  
#4 Posted : 05 February 2021 05:35:36(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello PJMärklin,
Thank you for the thorough explanation. Before the Control Unit 6021 went out When I connected 13 turnouts, the keys on the CU and the display were working but the loco went crazy and not responding; moving full speed with all functions ON and would not respond to the STOP button command from the 6021. Tried it a few times without any accessories connected same behaviour.
I unplugged everything even the feeder track from the main layout and connected only 2 things together: the 6021 and 6001 with no accessories no tracks and nothing else and the 6021 won’t come on, no lights, only a brief light on the 6001 and then it clicks and goes offline (no light).
I tested the 6001 separately (without 6021 connected but with the accessories) and they works.

I believe I fried the 6021 I will try replacing the transistors to see if that works,
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline PJMärklin  
#5 Posted : 05 February 2021 06:27:35(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Hello PJMärklin,
Thank you for the thorough explanation. Before the Control Unit 6021 went out When I connected 13 turnouts, the keys on the CU and the display were working but the loco went crazy and not responding; moving full speed with all functions ON and would not respond to the STOP button command from the 6021. Tried it a few times without any accessories connected same behaviour.
I unplugged everything even the feeder track from the main layout and connected only 2 things together: the 6021 and 6001 with no accessories no tracks and nothing else and the 6021 won’t come on, no lights, only a brief light on the 6001 and then it clicks and goes offline (no light).
I tested the 6001 separately (without 6021 connected but with the accessories) and they works.

I believe I fried the 6021 I will try replacing the transistors to see if that works,


Hello again waterslip,

Your further information does tend to suggest that.
As Bigdaddy has noted, it would seem from the 6021 failure posts here over the years that output transistor
failure is the commonest cause of the malady. Sorry for your griefSad

This may be a useful post :

https://www.marklin-user...n-6021-Repair#post509485

Good luck in repairThumpUp ,

PJBigGrin
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PJMärklin
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 05 February 2021 08:42:23(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Before the Control Unit 6021 went out When I connected 13 turnouts, the keys on the CU and the display were working but the loco went crazy and not responding; moving full speed with all functions ON and would not respond to the STOP button command from the 6021.


That's one of the symptoms of stressed output transistors that Clapcott noted in post #19 of this thread

https://www.marklin-user...1-control-unit#post54008

I see PJ has already linked to the 6021 Repair thread but I will put it and others here for completeness of my answer

https://www.marklin-user...5117-Marklin-6021-Repair

https://www.marklin-user...r-4-attempts-it-is-fixed

https://www.marklin-user....aspx?g=posts&t=8569
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline waterslip  
#7 Posted : 05 February 2021 17:08:58(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
This is great information. The symptoms were very similar to what was described in those threads. I will look into it, thanks alot.
Offline waterslip  
#8 Posted : 25 February 2021 16:11:09(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 70
Location: Quebec, Montreal
So I finally received the transistors and replaced them as per the excellent repair guide from Gordon. Thank you; that fixed the issue and the trains are back online.
2 minor issues I noticed:

1. Not sure if it's as per design or caused by my set up; but rarely when running all 3 locomotives (37779, 37780 and a 37955) with all functions on, at some point and very rarely the direction arrow indicator (Up forward or Down reverse goes off) but all other lights are on and the Control Unit 6021 doesn't respond but the locos keep running. And if I hit the STOP button they stop. I have to power Off the Control Unit for a few seconds and power it back on for things to come back to normal. Not sure what is causing this Confused Do I have to do a reset it on it ? a reset of the locos !?

2. I noticed in some parts of the track there are "dead zones" the train keeps moving without a problem but its lights flicker briefly off, this happens at specific locations on the layout and only for some trains (Brand new ones). The tracks are brand new too, I ran an extra feeder to power that zone same thing, not too sure what is causing this.
Specs:
Transformer 6001
COntrol Unit 6021
13 turnouts with lights (connected separately on a 6646 all by themselves)
Offline rbw993  
#9 Posted : 25 February 2021 17:10:46(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 954
Did you clean the new tracks? They often have residue of the lubricant used during the extrusion and assembly process.
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