Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline heinzb  
#1 Posted : 08 November 2020 06:25:18(UTC)
heinzb

United States   
Joined: 05/04/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Have a Maerklin Briefcase Layout, Z scale, 405A, I think. Anyway, the lok runs sluggishly and stops at various points along the track, despite track being cleaned with iso-propyl alcohol. Some of the rails seem to be discontinuous.
Should I put solder between all of the rail joints, or is there a simpler solution?
Also, there is a plug for a transformer connection-does Merklin have a suitable plug-in transformer for it, so I don't have to use a battery?
Thanks for any help on this.

Also, for Christmas last year my wife gave me a z scale Christmas train, which she wants me to run as a shuttle in a kitchen cabinet.
I bought a Viessmann shuttle control module for this, any idea how to set this up?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by heinzb
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#2 Posted : 08 November 2020 15:02:07(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 295
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: heinzb Go to Quoted Post
Have a Maerklin Briefcase Layout, Z scale, 405A, I think. Anyway, the lok runs sluggishly and stops at various points along the track, despite track being cleaned with iso-propyl alcohol. Some of the rails seem to be discontinuous.
Should I put solder between all of the rail joints, or is there a simpler solution?
Also, there is a plug for a transformer connection-does Merklin have a suitable plug-in transformer for it, so I don't have to use a battery?
Thanks for any help on this.

Also, for Christmas last year my wife gave me a z scale Christmas train, which she wants me to run as a shuttle in a kitchen cabinet.
I bought a Viessmann shuttle control module for this, any idea how to set this up?


I would start by gently squeezing the offending rail joiners using a pair of fine pliers to restore continuity. You can solder, but I have found that can cause other problems by preventing the rails to move as they expand and contract, so I would use that as a last resort and only on the connections that are not already making contact. If you do solder, use a good quality soldering iron of reasonable power and 60/40 lead/tin solder. Modern lead-free solders have a higher melting point so you're more likely to do damage to the sleepers. I'd also recommend you apply a bit of flux to the joint before applying the heat and solder as this will make the solder flow more quickly and evenly. Do be sure to clean off what's left afterwards though.

As for the shuttle question - do you have the instructions for the module as these include wiring diagrams? It's quite simple to set up - just four wires from the shuttle module to the rails, but you will need two isolating tracks or insulating rail joiners. I'd recommend the former unless the track is going to be fixed down.

Hope that's of help


Chris
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2020 22:54:34(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 295
Location: England, Cambridge
The original post piqued my interest and in a weak (alright, drunken) moment I bought myself a Viessmann shuttle controller.

It is very easy to wire up, but does require insulating rail joiners on opposing sides of the track. This isn't a problem in most circumstances but could be difficult if you want to add it to an existing layout, as I did, with common return wiring.

In case anyone is interested, I have developed a small add-on circuit that allows the controller to work in this configuration. I'm very happy to share details if anyone is interested.

Cheers


Chris
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 21 November 2020 00:55:08(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,192
Location: Paris, France
Hi Heinz
Originally Posted by: heinzb Go to Quoted Post
Have a Maerklin Briefcase Layout, Z scale, 405A, I think. Anyway, the lok runs sluggishly and stops at various points along the track, despite track being cleaned with iso-propyl alcohol. Some of the rails seem to be discontinuous.
Should I put solder between all of the rail joints, or is there a simpler solution?
Also, there is a plug for a transformer connection-does Merklin have a suitable plug-in transformer for it, so I don't have to use a battery?
Thanks for any help on this.

Also, for Christmas last year my wife gave me a z scale Christmas train, which she wants me to run as a shuttle in a kitchen cabinet.
I bought a Viessmann shuttle control module for this, any idea how to set this up?

- never solder the rail joiners, better remove the rails, clean them, squeeze or replace the joiners and apply a power feeder so that power is connected anew after 7 or 8 feet of track.
Alcool is not great for a good contact, better use W40 FOR CONTACTS
I don't see why you would need a battery if you have a Märklin Z transformer (attention voltages are different compared with other scales
Note: I don't have a Z-scale train but I had an N Scale which was sensitive to dust. Many Z-scale hide their layout in a glass box.

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline husafreak  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2020 04:35:06(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 236
Location: California, Bay Area
I would like to know more about this "shuttle" business? Is it a layout which does not loop around but rather shuttles the train back and forth along the line? In a weak (drunken?) moment I purchased an N scale Marklin loco. This is last summer. And I would like to run it along a linear track segment, back and forth automatically. Via DCC control though. Anyway I am "off topic" but the mention of a shuttle controller caught my attention.
To the OP heinzb I am in Livermore, CA just off 580. If you ever drive through PM me and we can meet, maybe drive your loco around my test track and make sure it is OK, cheers!
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2020 20:31:55(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 295
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: husafreak Go to Quoted Post
I would like to know more about this "shuttle" business? Is it a layout which does not loop around but rather shuttles the train back and forth along the line? In a weak (drunken?) moment I purchased an N scale Marklin loco. This is last summer. And I would like to run it along a linear track segment, back and forth automatically. Via DCC control though. Anyway I am "off topic" but the mention of a shuttle controller caught my attention.


The Viessmann controller I have only works with analogue, but does exactly what you say - the train goes in one direction, decelerates to a stop, waits for a bit before accelerating off in the other direction only to repeat at the other end. I have it doing this between to appropriate points on my continuous layout, but, of course, you could do this with just a straight piece of track or slightly more elaborate equivalents of that.

DCC lends itself to computer control and this sort of operation would be a doddle, but I don't know enough about DCC to be of more help. Here in the UK there is a group dedicated to automatic control of model railways - I'm sure there must be equivalents in the US, too. In general, I think US modellers have more sophisticate expectations than UK modellers.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has weak moments. Do you have a headache the following day, too?

All the best


Chris
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#7 Posted : 22 November 2020 20:47:23(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 295
Location: England, Cambridge
I'm going to follow up with what was a surprising revelation for me.

Yesterday, I was checking out the shuttle controller (with my modification) on my layout with my 88167 railcar set. I felt it was running a bit sluggishly, so I decided to give the powered car a light oiling - not expecting much. What surprised my was the immediate improvement in running - it instantly ran faster and continued running at lower controller voltage. I try to keep all of my locomotives well maintained and well lubricated, bit this was the first time I'd observed a noticeable improvement in running as a result.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is (I'm feeling weak, again) but I'd be interested to hear if other people have found a profound improvement in loco running from lubrication, or not...

All the best


Chris
Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 22 November 2020 21:16:19(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,192
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Here is a wiring of the Viessmann module 5214 for shuttle operation for analogue DC 2 rails system
Shuttle Viessmann5214.jpg
It says it all
- 4 wires for operation (2 extremes to detect the end of shuttle, 2 central to power the train)
- 4 potentiometers to adjust speed, acceleration, stop time for stopping station #1, stop time for stopping station #2

It is powered by a 12VAC transformer.
It is simply brilliant
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#9 Posted : 22 November 2020 22:10:35(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 295
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
Here is a wiring of the Viessmann module 5214 for shuttle operation for analogue DC 2 rails system
Shuttle Viessmann5214.jpg
It says it all
- 4 wires for operation (2 extremes to detect the end of shuttle, 2 central to power the train)
- 4 potentiometers to adjust speed, acceleration, stop time for stopping station #1, stop time for stopping station #2

It is powered by a 12VAC transformer.
It is simply brilliant
Jean


It does work well (though there are a few imperfections) but not if you have an existing layout with common return wiring - that with is all the section isolating on one side of the tracks. I wanted to be able to have shuttle control over a section of my layout for when I can't be around actively to operate it at exhibitions which is why I went to the trouble of developing my alternative wiring.

Surprisingly, my perception is that it works much better with the old five-pole equipped locomotives than with the new coreless motors!

Cheers


Chris
Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 22 November 2020 23:02:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,192
Location: Paris, France
Hi Chris
Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Surprisingly, my perception is that it works much better with the old five-pole equipped locomotives than with the new coreless motors!


It is not that surprising as coreless motors have a very special behavior often requiring a special electronics. The Viessmann module is a compromise to work with the most current motors. I assume there are issues with the speed ramps (up and down) of the coreless motors.
Cheers
Jean


My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#11 Posted : 22 November 2020 23:29:27(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 295
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

It is not that surprising as coreless motors have a very special behavior often requiring a special electronics. The Viessmann module is a compromise to work with the most current motors. I assume there are issues with the speed ramps (up and down) of the coreless motors.



The Viessmann module is also designed to work with all scales - up to G - so it's not a surprise that behaviour isn't optimised with our 10V Z motors!

My feeling is that the coreless motors have a much narrower speed range. Typically they seem to start moving at much lower voltage than the 5 poles - maybe as low as 1V or so - but the speed doesn't seem to increase linearly above, say, 6V or so whereas a 5 pole motor will continue to increase speed up to 10V. Oddly enough the railbus set didn't seem to accelerate that smoothly whereas my 88942 did. That might not be a fair comparison, though, because the 88943 is an exceptionally smooth running model, especially at low speed.

I am enjoying the Viessmann module, though, and I suspect it will be very good for running in new locos.

Cheers


Chris
Offline husafreak  
#12 Posted : 23 November 2020 03:05:58(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 236
Location: California, Bay Area
Thanks, very illuminating!
Offline Big AL  
#13 Posted : 24 November 2020 22:36:36(UTC)
Big AL

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/10/2020(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Scotland, Glasgow
I found this thread quite interesting, and remembered in my electronics bin I had a few Arduino's and possibly a motor controller shield.

So I had a rake about and cobbled this together to see if I could make it work just as a proof of concept. Behold after about 30 minutes...

https://imgur.com/a/gbCv9DZ (Video)

The motor shield can (PWM) control two motors up to 2 Amps each. It has current sensing and a motor brake built right in. You can also add an array of sensors such as Hall Effect sensors, IR sensors etc and you can build logic around those. You could go nuts and build your own control panel with a manual mode and automated mode. Replace the usual controller potentiometer with some speed up and slow down buttons and if you really want to go wild an LCD panel for telemetry.

I am sure I am not the first to do this, but I had the parts and had an itch I had to scratch. The official Arduino Leonardo and Motor shield are about 40 £s, $s, EUR to buy total for both, but you can source clones from eBay for about 60% cheaper.

I thought some of you guys looking at these things might find it useful. Apologies if this is old news.




Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2020, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.788 seconds.