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Offline HughC  
#1 Posted : 18 November 2020 23:23:20(UTC)
HughC

Canada   
Joined: 25/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 7
Hi All from S. Ontario, Canada,

I have read the forum with much interest for many years but have rarely posted. I'm stuck and hope that some of the experts out there can help.

I have a Marklin 39563 crocodile (CE 6/8 14307) purchased around 2012. It had an SDS motor. (I love these motors btw - and wish that M still used them.) Unfortunately, the motor seized and is ruined (that story for another time perhaps). Since Marklin does not carry spare parts for these, I found a replacement from SB modellbau. I have done the conversion with their bell armature motor but they say that if one uses the original Marklin decoder you must edit CV 52 for it to work. That CV is currently set to 1 (for SDS); it should be set to 4 (for the new motor).

OK: so far, so simple.

The problem is that when I try to edit the CV using a CS3 it shows that CV 52 is just coded as 1 and is not modifiable. The decoder is mfx (but not DCC).

So, how do I change it? (Is it even possible to modify that value or is it essentially hardwired? How could one tell?) I have thought of a few things:

- use the mdecodertool but that seems to work only for the newest decoders. It will let me test the decoder (lights and whistle work fine) but won't actually read the decoder as the CS3 will.

- add a new loco under MM which may give more control over what can be edited than the "know-it-all" mfx approach. The loco responds to MM commands to address 68 but when you try to edit the loco you don't get anything. I guess being MM it can't read the decoder info???

In either case, it would be best to be able to read out the current config of the decoder, work on that (i.e., change that one value and any other relevant motor parameters) and then read it back in. All of these other methods seem to require one to enter every last parameter anew and I worry that I will completely screw up the decoder. If I look up the loco in the database it (un!)helpfully tells me that this is an mfx loco and doesn't do anything useful.

Has anyone encountered a problem like this and/or have any suggestions as to how to proceed - or am I out of luck?

Thanks in advance,
Hugh
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 19 November 2020 09:10:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,838
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: HughC Go to Quoted Post
So, how do I change it? (Is it even possible to modify that value or is it essentially hardwired? How could one tell?)
Factory-installed decoders can have all sorts of locks. IIRC I have seen Märklin decoders where you can change the motor type to any value you want (using a CS2), but it doesn't have any effect. Maybe different decoders do not allow changing the value.

Don't forget to write changes to the decoder after making a change.

I think using a different tool won't make a difference. Probably time to get a replacement decoder.
You can get an ESU decoder to show how pleased you are about Märklin locking there bally decoders. Probably that's what I would do.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline HughC  
#3 Posted : 19 November 2020 17:02:26(UTC)
HughC

Canada   
Joined: 25/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 7
Many thanks, Tom,

Not what I wanted to hear but is what I was coming to suspect!

On the "glass half full" side, I guess with a new decoder I can add full sound (it originally only had a whistle).

Thanks again,
Hugh
Offline franciscohg  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2020 18:16:22(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,225
Location: Patagonia
Hello
Tom is right.
just a question arises, you are using the original board? How do you connect the motor? Or sb-modellbau also provides a suitable board?
Regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline applor  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2020 23:40:28(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,567
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Interesting.

I have some Marklin MFX decoders which I have retrofitted into a different locomotive. These Marklin decoders are actually ESU lokpilot 3 M4 decoders and completely unlocked - I could change everything when I used lokprogrammer.

I would have thought yours would be the same from that sort of time period. You're touching the edit (spanner) icon in the loco properties? Maybe decoders used for SDS locos are locked to avoid people ruining them.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
Offline HughC  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2020 15:50:17(UTC)
HughC

Canada   
Joined: 25/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Hello
Tom is right.
just a question arises, you are using the original board? How do you connect the motor? Or sb-modellbau also provides a suitable board?
Regards


Yes, using the original board. In their instructions they show photos of the lok's innards that look identical to mine. They solder motor leads to the feet of pins 18 & 19 and then make the comment that if you use the original Marklin decoder you will have to reprogram it.
Offline HughC  
#7 Posted : 20 November 2020 16:00:58(UTC)
HughC

Canada   
Joined: 25/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Interesting.

I have some Marklin MFX decoders which I have retrofitted into a different locomotive. These Marklin decoders are actually ESU lokpilot 3 M4 decoders and completely unlocked - I could change everything when I used lokprogrammer.

I would have thought yours would be the same from that sort of time period. You're touching the edit (spanner) icon in the loco properties? Maybe decoders used for SDS locos are locked to avoid people ruining them.


Maybe I should try to get a hold of a lokprogrammer to see if my decoder can be suitably reprogrammed. I have been trying to do this using a cs3 (my old cs2 only seems able to work as a slave/booster not standalone) and I admit that it is not obvious how to write changes to the decoder. However, it is still the case that it doesn't even let me edit the field! (I can edit several other fields.)
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 20 November 2020 16:09:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,838
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: HughC Go to Quoted Post
Maybe I should try to get a hold of a lokprogrammer to see if my decoder can be suitably reprogrammed.
Maybe not.
Only Märklin mfx decoders have the motor type CV 52.

The CS2 can show the manufacturer ID of the decoder (151 for ESU, 131 for Trix) beside the manufacturer ID of the loco (always 131 for Trix in Märklin locos).

Only the first batch of ESU mfx decoders in Märklin locos back in 2005 was not locked. Later ESU mfx decoders in Märklin locos were locked against updates.
If the decoder is from Märklin (ID 131) then the ESU Lok Programmer will not be able to make any changes.

ESU decoders have a blue board, Märklin decoders are green, red, or white. So first check colour or ID to find the maker of the decoder, then decide the next step.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ocram63_uk  
#9 Posted : 20 November 2020 20:09:01(UTC)
ocram63_uk

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 376
Location: England, Suffolk
I think that SB-Modelbau strips out all the Marklin muck and gives you a proper motor that doesn’t need a PCB to work :-)
Offline eduard71  
#10 Posted : 21 November 2020 04:25:37(UTC)
eduard71

Chile   
Joined: 27/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 244
Location: Santiago
Dear Hugh
Marklin locomotives with a Sinus motor use a special board to drive the motor. For that reason CV 52 is 0. I am not sure if the board will work with any other kind of motor.
Instead the decoder should work with a standard 21 pin board and your new motor.
It is not recommended to change the configuration of the decoder using the board of the sds locomotive. Some years ago I upgraded my Gottardo train set to full sound. Following the recommendation in the stummi forum the programming of the decoder was made in a ESU programming board instead of the locomotive. The electronics of the sds board tend to interface the programming process of the decoder. Actually this happen when I want to change cv setting in the train set, the decoder does not get fully mapped by my cs3 and to do this I need to take out the decoder and program it in a non sinus locomotive.
Hope this tip helps you.
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 21 November 2020 15:43:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,838
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ocram63_uk Go to Quoted Post
I think that SB-Modelbau strips out all the Marklin muck and gives you a proper motor that doesn’t need a PCB to work :-)
The decoder has a PCB with a socket (21MTC) and requires a PCB with a plug inside the loco. The motor driver PCB for the C Sine motor is no longer needed.

Originally Posted by: eduard71 Go to Quoted Post
The electronics of the sds board tend to interface the programming process of the decoder.
The motor driver board interferes with DCC programming, but not with mfx programming. It will be removed or bypassed for coreless motors anyway.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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