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Offline morsing  
#1 Posted : 12 June 2019 18:37:50(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 556
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Hi,

I tried following the advice to solder wires to C-track, but the shiny spade connectors do not take to solder well. It just rolls off... Is there a trick?

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline LongHairedDavid  
#2 Posted : 12 June 2019 19:06:16(UTC)
LongHairedDavid


Joined: 04/01/2019(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: England, Ipswich
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

I tried following the advice to solder wires to C-track, but the shiny spade connectors do not take to solder well. It just rolls off... Is there a trick?

Thanks


Hi there I use a flux pen - I got mine from Amazon (no surprise there!) https://amzn.to/2wOyb4v

Makes soldering much easier.
Long Haired David
AKA David Pennington
A mystified Maerklin Newbie
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Offline Minok  
#3 Posted : 12 June 2019 21:20:26(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,180
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
I think the use of flux here is a requirement; either paste or oil. Oil is probably a bit less messy; and be sure to clean off any excess flux afterward as it is corrosive. Of course a hot iron as well, so that the time to get the solder to melt is very short and thus no chance of melting the track body in the process.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2019 21:28:58(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,522
It’s normally very easy to solder on the spades.

Make sure you first apply heat to the spades for 1-2 sec, then come in with your solder.

Apply a small tap of solder to the spade. Apply separately some solder to the wire. Then bring them together.

If it doesn’t work could be the solder iron not hot enough (or the tip is too large) or you are using a wrong solder?

I don’t normally use flux pen for these spades.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Purellum  
#5 Posted : 13 June 2019 00:15:58(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,247
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I'm not sure if you're soldering directly on the taps on the tracks, or on the spade connectors ( 74995 ).

The connectors should be easy, even though the are meant to be crimped; on the taps a bit of sanding with very fine sandpaper can help.

In both cases pre-soldering makes life much easier.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 13 June 2019 06:27:04(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
Cut the spade connectors off and solder the bare wires to the lugs underneath the track. Job done!
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Offline morsing  
#7 Posted : 13 June 2019 08:37:37(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 556
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Ok, maybe my terminology was wrong, didn't know what the little buggers are called.

I'm trying to solder wires to the shiny taps/lugs whatever they're called, underneath the track.

Is the flux pen any different to normal flux?

I will try and sand them a bit and pre-solder.

Thanks
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#8 Posted : 13 June 2019 10:21:43(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,462
Location: New Zealand
I use resin core solder to solder wires to the track lugs. This solder has flux embedded in the core of the solder wire. You just need to tin the end of the wire and the lug itself with solder then solder the wire to the lug.

Some fluxes can be quite corrosive - I have a nearly full bottle of flux that my Dad had (and he has been dead for 41 years now) and it is very corrosive. I tried using it to solder some power wires to some brand new K track pieces. The track corroded severely where the flux was applied within a couple of weeks. Better to use the resin core solder, that doesn't have the corrosion issue.
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Offline David Dewar  
#9 Posted : 13 June 2019 13:04:13(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,978
Location: Scotland
As Dave says just tin both the wire and the lug then make sure your iron is hot and hold wire to the lug and place iron on top of wire and it will join.

I am not good with a soldering iron but the above works for me.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline morsing  
#10 Posted : 13 June 2019 14:21:21(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 556
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Thanks, sanding and pre-soldering did the trick:

UserPostedImage
-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by morsing
Offline Boxbrownie  
#11 Posted : 11 October 2019 18:19:50(UTC)
Boxbrownie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/10/2019(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Cornwall
New so not sure why the recommendation to solder rather than use spades?

I have 15 points (C-Track) to fit the new Viessmann 4568 motors to and was going to use spades rather than solder them, are the Marklin spades not very good or something?
Best regards.........David
Offline morsing  
#12 Posted : 11 October 2019 18:50:29(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 556
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: Boxbrownie Go to Quoted Post
New so not sure why the recommendation to solder rather than use spades?

I have 15 points (C-Track) to fit the new Viessmann 4568 motors to and was going to use spades rather than solder them, are the Marklin spades not very good or something?



They fall off just putting the track down...


-----
Modelling west Denmark era IV - possibly with some out-of-place elements!
Marklin C-track + CS3+
12m2 layout to be controlled by RocRail
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Offline Boxbrownie  
#13 Posted : 11 October 2019 19:22:44(UTC)
Boxbrownie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/10/2019(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Cornwall
Can they not just be squeezed slightly to tighten them up, or is 1there something more fundamentally wrong with them?
Best regards.........David
Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 11 October 2019 19:54:26(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,531
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Boxbrownie Go to Quoted Post
Can they not just be squeezed slightly to tighten them up, or is there something more fundamentally wrong with them?


A potential problem with the spades is that they can fall off and are relatively soft so it does not take much movement to work them loose. If you use spade connectors be sure and leave a few cm's of slack and not use wire heavier than is practical or required.

Also, any form of push/plug connectors are subject to vibration and temperature variation and this can eventually lead to oxidation, high resistance, micro-arcing and result in a poor/failed connection.

All of these are avoided by soldering and some would argue that if you are going to solder wire to the spade connector anyway, why not just solder direct to the track tab?

Fair point. Having said all that, I still use connectors and plugs for two main reasons.

1: Convenience of connection and replacement if required

2:.Troubleshooting. Far easier to isolate a problem via a removable connector than having to unsolder/cut and then resolver. Just always remember that the connector itself may BE the issue. Laugh

Although having said that, I would agree that strategic placement of screwed connectors (ie chocolate-block style) would achieve the same thing.

Hope that helps.

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Boxbrownie  
#15 Posted : 11 October 2019 20:03:51(UTC)
Boxbrownie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/10/2019(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Cornwall
Cheers, Yes well if the connector material is a bit suspect that would not be a good feature, I have actually already bought a whole bag of spade connectors from RS Components (professional electrical supplier) and I always give the connectors a little splash/blob of Copaslip before connecting, nice and conductive and stops all corrosion/micro arcing.

I had a garden railway for over 20 years, it was all just normal LGB track using just the fishplate connectors ( and the plastic tensioners) but with a good dosh of Copaslip on each rail, in twenty years we NEVER had a bad connection, and that’s in the our weather 😂
Best regards.........David
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 11 October 2019 23:01:52(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,143
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

I tried following the advice to solder wires to C-track, but the shiny spade connectors do not take to solder well. It just rolls off... Is there a trick?

Thanks


Hi Morsing

I guess the trick is to use regular solder for electronics (with soft soldering agent). The other part is to use a soldering iron for electronics (with regulated temperature). Then it works every time. I use a 40 years old Weller soldering iron not had ever a soldering issue on C rails. I even use it to solder SMC diodes and components.

Now they are expensive (but good for life) otherwise on the internet you may find acceptable ones for around 25€.
Here is one possibility: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Yihua-60...39dff:g:fiAAAOSw9MtcrZWJ

What you describe seems related to a too high temperature / waiting to long before soldering which make the soldering agent to burn/disappear.
cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline Boxbrownie  
#17 Posted : 12 October 2019 13:33:04(UTC)
Boxbrownie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/10/2019(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Cornwall
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

I tried following the advice to solder wires to C-track, but the shiny spade connectors do not take to solder well. It just rolls off... Is there a trick?

Thanks




What you describe seems related to a too high temperature / waiting to long before soldering which make the soldering agent to burn/disappear.
cheers

Jean


This could well be your issue, does the solder “bead” and roll off the connector or sit there cool down and fall off?

One is too hot the other is like you’ll get trying to solder to stainless steel, although even that is possible with the correct flux and solder.

For virtually every soldered joint on any of my railway stuff I have always used just a high quality flux cored coil of solder made for electrical soldering, but as Jean says a temperature controlled iron is the best way to go for a start.
Best regards.........David
Offline rbw993  
#18 Posted : 21 October 2019 17:34:22(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 678
David,
I love the weather in Cornwall. You just need to dress for it!

Roger
Offline Boxbrownie  
#19 Posted : 21 October 2019 19:20:05(UTC)
Boxbrownie

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/10/2019(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Cornwall
Originally Posted by: rbw993 Go to Quoted Post
David,
I love the weather in Cornwall. You just need to dress for it!

Roger



Indeed, no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing BigGrin

Lovely here.......in the Summer its never a blinding heat wave and in the Winter its never a brass Monkey ball dropping freeze......Gulf Stream makes sure its always (usually) mild....although we do get the occasional storm, and when that happens we may as well be out at sea in it!

Great fun.
Best regards.........David
Offline oranda  
#20 Posted : 12 October 2020 21:46:42(UTC)
oranda

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 104
Location: ENGLAND
Originally Posted by: Boxbrownie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

I tried following the advice to solder wires to C-track, but the shiny spade connectors do not take to solder well. It just rolls off... Is there a trick?

Thanks




What you describe seems related to a too high temperature / waiting to long before soldering which make the soldering agent to burn/disappear.
cheers

Jean


This could well be your issue, does the solder “bead” and roll off the connector or sit there cool down and fall off?

One is too hot the other is like you’ll get trying to solder to stainless steel, although even that is possible with the correct flux and solder.

For virtually every soldered joint on any of my railway stuff I have always used just a high quality flux cored coil of solder made for electrical soldering, but as Jean says a temperature controlled iron is the best way to go for a start.





My recent discovery for soldering contact detector wires to the outside edge of stainless steel track is a flux of 75%+ phosphoric acid. It should also work well with the tabs on the underside track beds.
Offline rrf  
#21 Posted : 16 October 2020 23:49:01(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 273
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello,

I like the flexibility provided by the spades. I have adopted a few of procedures to mitigate the chance of a connection coming loose.

First, never having been a fan of crimped connections, I solder my wires to the end of the spade. Next, I squeeze the spade a small bit with pliers to make sure I get a tight fit. Finally, I use silicon RTV to fasten the wire to the track, just beyond the spade.

So far, I haven’t had trouble with loose connections and have been able to move and reuse my spade cable connections countless times.

Regards,
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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