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Offline johnmarklin  
#1 Posted : 30 August 2020 18:28:30(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Good afternoon fellow enthusiasts.

I am looking for your assistance. I purchased a Marklin Big Boy 4013 from Marklin starter set 29848 as a project. The locomotive had been dismantled by the previous owner and came to me in pieces. I have managed to re-build the locomotive after many hours. The drive was also locking up and it took a lot of trial and error to re-quarter the wheels correctly. All is fine now. The locomotive runs fine but I have no sound. I know the decoder is not damaged as it made the horn sound when I first put the tender on the track. How this worked I do not know considering the decoder in the tender has to be wired to the decoder in the locomotive for it to work.

My problem is I have manged to connect all wires from tender to main decoder except for one grey one. I cannot find a pad any where on the decoder or the circuit board to the front that is not already soldered to a cable. Would anyone have a diagram of where the wire should be connected. I have checked the HGH-Moba website. The grey cable is shown on the image of the sound decoder in the tender (see attached). It is connected to the pad to which the white wire
is connected but it is not shown soldered to the main decoder on the HGH-Moba site.

All suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

John
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 30 August 2020 19:15:50(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,118
Location: Paris, France
Hi John
According to Märklin this Big Boy Sound is limited to the whistle sound
See here: https://www.maerklin.de/en/products/details/article/29848/
Sorry for the bad news.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline owidgie  
#3 Posted : 30 August 2020 20:54:28(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: SoCal
Hello John - and John, there is possibly some good news here, the 4013 Big Boy was the first one issued by Marklin 37990 in 2001. This was the insider locomotive where you could order the CS1 also. The Big Boy 4015 was the locomotive in the 29848. The 4015 came with limited sound on a single decoder. The 4013 had 2 decoders one for locomotive control and one for sound (basically), they were addressed 40 and 41.

So if you have the 4013 road number it is the Insider.


If you want me to, I can take a look at mine, Just let me know which Big Boy you have since wiring is slightly different in some of them. - I have all 9 Big Boys from Marklin (and both Challengers) <--- Bragging shamelessly! BigGrin



Rick
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 30 August 2020 21:28:59(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,118
Location: Paris, France
Hi Rick
The Big Boy in the set 29848 has a 4013 road number and only one Sound function

Another one is the Delta Version also with a 4013 road number, no Sound
,
The last one (I have it) is also with a 4013 road number. It is the insider version 37990. A separate sound decoder is in the tender with 4 sound signals activated with a separate address. Running sound is made using a Hall transistor to sync with wheels. 2 different whistle sound and a Bell sound complete the sounds
37990 Big Boy 4013.jpg


This is to say that sometimes Märklin re-uses the same road number with different electronic features or accessories

Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
Offline owidgie  
#5 Posted : 30 August 2020 22:11:26(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: SoCal
Hi John, I respectfully disagree, unless there was some substitutions at the factory. Big Boy 4015 was from the starter set 29848. Someone here could be mistaken and that's ok. It could be a matter of what was packed at the factory for different countries ( I doubt it).

The evidence that I have is:

1 - 29848 Big Boys were the only ones mounted on an unfinished wood base board.

IMG_4320.JPG


2 - All packaging for the 29848 starter set and pictured in the catalog were Big Boy 4015

29848.jpg


3 - Koll's lists the loco as Big Boy 4015 also

IMG_4321.JPG


At the train shop that I used to work at back then, I never saw a 4013 in a 29848 set. It was always a 4015.



I could see someone along the line swapping the bodies I guess, it wouldn't be hard to do, there are only 3 components that would need to be changed and viola! new sounds!

I'm not trying to be difficult but if there is a Big Boy that I missed by mistake, I will need to find one so I don't have a hole in my collection. As it is I forgot about the Delta version but I am not sure that constitutes a hole since I would put a sound decoder in it anyway, then I basically have a 37990 from a 34990.

Rick
Offline johnmarklin  
#6 Posted : 30 August 2020 22:26:51(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Sincere apologies to you all for mis-leading information.

The locomotive I am referring to is4015 from starter set. It has a separate decoder in the tender as in the image. I have 4013 Marklin 37990 as well and I mixed them up.

So the locomotive I need the wiring instructions for is 4015.

Thank you,

John
Offline owidgie  
#7 Posted : 30 August 2020 22:44:14(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: SoCal
Blink

OMG after all of that, you picked the only locomotive that I have upgraded with a new sound decoder! I'm sorry but I don't have the original decoder on this one.

From what I see that is left of the original wiring is that there are 2 grey wires going to the lighting board. One is for the cab light and the other is for the number board light.

IMG_4322.JPG

Rick
Offline jerdenberg  
#8 Posted : 31 August 2020 09:36:18(UTC)
jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 970
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
In haste, here are two pics of my 4015:

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Good luck!

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jerdenberg
Offline johnmarklin  
#9 Posted : 31 August 2020 19:51:42(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Thank you Rick and Jeroen for the images.

Rick, your loco looks the same as mine except my loco does not have a wire soldered to the pad adjacent the three tabs that the boiler springs press on. Jeroen your image is most like mine but the grey wire that I refer to is not shown.

If you look at my second image it shows the decoder in the tender. On that decoder are two solder tabs stuck to an IC. On one solder tab there are two red wires soldered, one going to the board and the other connected to the decoder in the boiler. The second solder tab has two grey wires, one going to the board and the other going to the locomotive but where should it be soldered to? there are no free solder pads. It is a puzzle

Any ideas?

John
Offline owidgie  
#10 Posted : 31 August 2020 20:36:45(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: SoCal
Hi John, I think that model had the headlight and number board on the same circuit. That could be why you don't have two separate wires for it. I separated them out as different functions when I did the upgrade.

Rick
Offline jerdenberg  
#11 Posted : 31 August 2020 22:50:19(UTC)
jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 970
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Hi John,

With my 4015, the grey wire is in the lowermost bundle-of-three going to the tender (it emerges from under the main decoder) and it would seem it comes from the board at the front? If you find that helpful I can check if that is really the case.

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
Offline johnmarklin  
#12 Posted : 01 September 2020 00:14:49(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Jeroen,

It would be very helpful if you could find where on the front board it is soldered to.

Thank you,

John
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#13 Posted : 01 September 2020 12:11:08(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,444
Location: Italy
The first model of Big Boy had a poor sound, the ciuff ciuff was piloted by a camme (two of the four wires that go in the front) that after some years, used or not, have problems.
I have replaced the decoder with a locksound, that work without camme.
Open a close the model is very difficult, but not impossible.
I have a topic in italian that you can translate by google, if you want have a look:
http://www.marklinfan.co.../topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4326

Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Alberto Pedrini
Offline jerdenberg  
#14 Posted : 01 September 2020 14:07:53(UTC)
jerdenberg

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 970
Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland
Hi John,

As I saw in the manual that the main decoder has to be tilted in order to get to one of the lubrication points of the transmission, I gathered that would be simple – it wasn't. Due to all the wires connected to it I could not tilt it upright; I had to shift it around a bit to reach the lubrication hole. This issue also made it impossible to make a decent picture of the bottom of the decoder; the best I was able to do was to focus on the side of the board with the relevant connections to bottom soldering pads:

UserPostedImage

As you can see, the grey and red wires that enter from the tender and vanish under the board are soldered to pads on the bottom of the board, as is the grey wire that leads to the contacts for the number boards (the red wire for the number boards is soldered to a pad on top of the board). The grey and red wires to the tender are connected to a board in the tender that serves the back-up light.

Hope this helps.

Jeroen
Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
Offline owidgie  
#15 Posted : 01 September 2020 19:26:21(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: SoCal
Alberto - Great story on the conversion. I had done mine years ago and this brought back memories and nightmares. I am glad to see the someone changed the amber LED headlights to warm white like I did. In fact I went through my Big Boys and changed the lights. Now they all have warm white LEDs - What an improvement!

Rick
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by owidgie
Offline johnmarklin  
#16 Posted : 02 September 2020 00:03:59(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Alberto,
Thank you for for your reply. Your images show the way my locomotive was when I got it. I think the sound unit on mine is damaged as I cant get any sound from it now. It looks as if a power transistor has been damaged on the sound module. The ESU sound definitely sound better.

Jeroen,

Thank you for the image. it will be useful to me. As far as I remember there are no wires soldered to the underside of the board on my loco. As I mentioned to Alberto I think the sound module was damaged when I got the locomotive. I cannot get it to make any sounds even though it made the long horn sound which is not a sound for this locomotive when I placed it on the track for the first time. It never made any other sound. It has me puzzled. A replacement sound module is impossible to get now. I will check my locomotive tomorrow and report back.

John
Offline johnmarklin  
#17 Posted : 03 September 2020 00:05:29(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Jeroen,

The image is a great help. I have been able to remove the decoder on my locomotive but have not soldered the wire yet. Hot water system at home needed attention and takes priority. I hope to do the soldering tomorrow evening.


Rick & Alberto,

The led conversions sound interesting but unfortunately for me the lens from both number boards are missing and there is probably nothing to be gained by doing the conversion.


As a matter of interest which ESU decoder did you use? I might consider upgrading the decoder.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 03 September 2020 00:13:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,358
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post

As a matter of interest which ESU decoder did you use? I might consider upgrading the decoder.


The only one you can get now is the Loksound 5.

Get your dealer to load it with the Big Boy sound file S0516 (second one on the page) if you don't wish to also purchase a Lokprogrammer to download the sound file yourself. You can change CVs afterwards to tune various things.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline johnmarklin  
#19 Posted : 03 September 2020 09:34:31(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Thanks Alan,

I do own a Lok Programmer and I have a Loksound 5 available which is not performing as expected despite doing a reset on it. I am awaiting an ESU decoder tester to check it. Thank you for the sound file number.

John
Offline johnmarklin  
#20 Posted : 04 September 2020 20:06:41(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Thank you to all who replied to my query especially Jeroen, Rick, Alberto and Alan. Your suggestions were appreciated.

The locomotive is now running, the lights are working but the sound does not work. I suspect one of the surface mounted devices (transistor) is damaged on the sound board. If anyone has an old sound board from a 4015 even if it is not working I would be interested. I might be able to salvage the damaged part and get the board working again. I have had success doing this in the past.

John
Offline owidgie  
#21 Posted : 05 September 2020 00:12:10(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: SoCal
John - before you change anything on, or the decoder itself, try changing the speaker. I have had a few fail in the past.

Like my Dad always says "change the inexpensive parts first - sometimes you get lucky"


Rick
Offline johnmarklin  
#22 Posted : 05 September 2020 11:42:01(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Good morning Rick,

I agree with your dad. I am confident that the speaker is OK. As I said in my initial query I got the locomotive in parts. The only complete bit was the tender which had all of the wires disconnected from the decoder. When I put the tender onto the track (not connected to the decoder) it gave a loud blast of the horn. This is not a sound that is normally available on this locomotive. How this could have happened I do not know, it is a mystery to me. This suggests the speaker was working then unless it has blown since. What is more of a concern is one of the surface mounted devices (a transistor) has a small spike on it. This to me usually indicates that the device has incurred some damage. The device is so small that it is impossible to read any any code on it even with an illuminated magnifying glass. I will keep experimenting. Ultimately an ESU decoder might be required.

Keep enjoying your Marklin.

John
Offline johnmarklin  
#23 Posted : 06 September 2020 12:00:16(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Good morning Rick,

I have tested the speaker and it works perfectly. I have also tested the loco using Marklin 6021 controller and an Intellibox but still no sound. The central station indicates that there are four functions allocated to this locomotive. The loudspeaker setting is set at zero and cannot be adjusted. Is this telling me that the decoder is not identified as a sound decoder or is it because you have to set the volume manually on the tender. All other settings are set to zero also and cannot be edited either. Is this normal for this locomotive when used with CS2?

John
Offline kiwiAlan  
#24 Posted : 06 September 2020 13:29:32(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,358
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
Good morning Rick,

I have tested the speaker and it works perfectly. I have also tested the loco using Marklin 6021 controller and an Intellibox but still no sound. The central station indicates that there are four functions allocated to this locomotive. The loudspeaker setting is set at zero and cannot be adjusted. Is this telling me that the decoder is not identified as a sound decoder or is it because you have to set the volume manually on the tender. All other settings are set to zero also and cannot be edited either. Is this normal for this locomotive when used with CS2?

John


With the standard decoder and sound card then yes that would be correct. I believe there should be a potentiometer on the sound card, similar to the two on the loco decoder, to adjust the sound level, but i cannot see it in your picture at the top of the thread. It may be hidden under the green PCB that seems to be there as a wire joiner.
Offline johnmarklin  
#25 Posted : 06 September 2020 16:09:13(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Alan,

Thank you for your reply. you are correct. There is a pot on the top left corner of the sound card (other side of my image at top of article).

John
Offline johnmarklin  
#26 Posted : 10 September 2020 11:29:07(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 165
Location: Ireland
Thank you to everyone who responded to my query. The locomotive is running perfectly and I have got a replacement sound card. All is working as it should be.

John
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