 Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 106 Location: Fish Hoek, Cape Town
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I recentky received some c track wifh really badly rusted centre studs. Outer rails are fine though. Can I use smooth emery paper/sanding sheets to remove the rust on the studs only? Do I have to coat the studs afterwards to stop/slow down further rusting? if so, What do i use?
thanx for any suggestions, Joe M |
Medium digital C track layout with MS2: When I grow up I want to be a steam engine driver.... |
 1 user liked this useful post by Joe Meiring
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Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 497
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Yes, you can use fine emery paper to remove the rust. When the rust is removed only ordinary track cleaning is needed (maybe combined with a stick of graphite carefully rubbed on problematic studs/pieces of track).
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4 users liked this useful post by Copenhagen
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 Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Instead of emery paper I use a track cleaning rubber. It's enough to clean the very tip of the studs as that is all that's in contact with the sliders. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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3 users liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 106 Location: Fish Hoek, Cape Town
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Originally Posted by: RayF  Instead of emery paper I use a track cleaning rubber. It's enough to clean the very tip of the studs as that is all that's in contact with the sliders. Thanks Ray...I have one of those track cleaning rubbers! Are you supposed to apply some sort of "sealer" on the studs to prevent further oxidation/rust after cleaning the studs? The rails themselves look perfect after a good clean wifh my track cleaning car fitted with those cleaning pads! Thanks, Joe |
Medium digital C track layout with MS2: When I grow up I want to be a steam engine driver.... |
1 user liked this useful post by Joe Meiring
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Originally Posted by: RayF Instead of emery paper I use a track cleaning rubber. It's enough to clean the very tip of the studs as that is all that's in contact with the sliders. Thanks Ray...I have one of those track cleaning rubbers! Are you supposed to apply some sort of "sealer" on the studs to prevent further oxidation/rust after cleaning the studs? The rails themselves look perfect after a good clean wifh my track cleaning car fitted with those cleaning pads! Thanks, Joe In my experience the best maintenance is to run trains regularly. The sliders will keep the ends of the studs nice and shiny! I don't think you can apply any kind of sealer without blocking the electrical connection. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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3 users liked this useful post by RayF
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 Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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All good suggestions above. I may just want to add a trick I've used since I had water deluge (plugged AC system...) raining on some of my tin plate coaches . It was suggested to use the smoke fluid as a cleaner and rust blocker. I was first a bit skeptical...but I had nothing to loose trying it...  I can confirm it does both and the few affected vehicles are all doing fine today. And now I'm also using it on C-track and K-track pukos, and when renovating M-track (as far as pre-war vintage!) for clean up. They sell in relatively large containers, so it seems that the one I have will last a lifetime. Hope this helps |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
8 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 106 Location: Fish Hoek, Cape Town
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Originally Posted by: jvuye All good suggestions above. I may just want to add a trick I've used since I had water deluge (plugged AC system...) raining on some of my tin plate coaches . It was suggested to use the smoke fluid as a cleaner and rust blocker. I was first a bit skeptical...but I had nothing to loose trying it... I can confirm it does both and the few affected vehicles are all doing fine today. And now I'm also using it on C-track and K-track pukos, and when renovating M-track (as far as pre-war vintage!) for clean up. They sell in relatively large containers, so it seems that the one I have will last a lifetime. Hope this helps Oh great.... wil definitely try the smoke fluid!!..... Thanx, Joe |
Medium digital C track layout with MS2: When I grow up I want to be a steam engine driver.... |
1 user liked this useful post by Joe Meiring
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 Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,253 Location: Sydney, NSW
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This has been the bane of my model train experience. you mention that the outer rails haven't rusted and they need to carry the return current, so why in the hell don't they make the centre pukos out of the same metal ? Can anyone please explain this ? If someone mentions the cost factor, I'll scream - as the hobby costs a lot to start with, then why short charge the whole situation with one of the major components with a cheap part ? |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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2 users liked this useful post by Drongo
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 Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 693 Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
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The outer rails of track are made of rust free steel, presumably stainless steel.
I think that this would be too soft a metal for the centre studs, the friction wear from the solid pickup shoes would wear down the studs too quickly.
I guess it is not possible to have hardened rust proof steel, at least not at an economic price for mass production?
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4 users liked this useful post by AshleyH
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Drongo This has been the bane of my model train experience. you mention that the outer rails haven't rusted and they need to carry the return current, so why in the hell don't they make the centre pukos out of the same metal ? Can anyone please explain this ? If someone mentions the cost factor, I'll scream - as the hobby costs a lot to start with, then why short charge the whole situation with one of the major components with a cheap part ? Hi Greg, With my fairly rudimentary knowledge of the properties of metals, I think I have an answer. I too have the same bane. The centre pukos are made of what may be called black iron (which tarnishes easily). Black iron is a fairly soft (usually sheeeted) metal at the low level of the elaborately transformed part of the manufacture spectrum. This is not steel, or stainless steel, both of which are harder. Rolling wheels can run on hard steel without destructive wear in the medium to long term, hence the use of stainless steel for the rails. The Märklin slider pick-up is also made of soft metal, I believe mostly brass, but the later ones also seem to be a spring metal of some sort Sliding along a soft metal reduces the wear of both the puko and the slider - soft on soft, if that makes sense. And soft on soft is used to enhance the electrical conductivity of the two metals, which make contact over a very small surface area like 1mm square. If you substitute stainless steel as the centre puko material, you would soon wear a groove (or worse - an elongated hole) in the pick-up slider. Kimball Edited by user 17 March 2020 03:54:50(UTC)
| Reason: enhanced some sense |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
4 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Keeping humidity low is critical in preventing rust and degradation of the centre stud - This means a de-humidifier in summer and wet weather for us Aussies. |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
2 users liked this useful post by applor
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: AshleyH ...
I guess it is not possible to have hardened rust proof steel, at least not at an economic price for mass production? Yes. But at least they have been "blackened" by an electro-chemical plating process , which both provides a reasonable level of rust protection, all the while preserving electrical conductivity. It also makes them less conspicuous when pointing in the middle of the track! Cheers Jacques |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Yes, you can use fine emery paper to remove the rust. When the rust is removed only ordinary track cleaning is needed (maybe combined with a stick of graphite carefully rubbed on problematic studs/pieces of track). Knowing how well graphite works as a lubricant, I phoned my local industrial supplier and enquired about said graphite stick. The only graphite they sell is powdered (used by locksmiths for key and lock) or in bandage form used in some sort of linishing machine. So I tried my carpenters pencil (made by Staedtler) and that seems to work OK on the C track pukos. I will buy a couple more carpenters pencils. These are a flat broad (3mm) graphite stick embedded in wood, unlike the office pencil which is rounded 1-1.5mm graphite. I believe the best graphite comes from Outer Mongolia. If anyone asks me to investigate the source of this substance, I might be persuaded to travel there - for the right amount of remuneration of course. Kimball Edited by user 19 March 2020 21:08:06(UTC)
| Reason: spelling correction |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
3 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 106 Location: Fish Hoek, Cape Town
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Thanx Kimball... Just waiting for the virus pandemic to subside then we off to holiday in Outer Mongolia!
😂😂 |
Medium digital C track layout with MS2: When I grow up I want to be a steam engine driver.... |
2 users liked this useful post by Joe Meiring
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Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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You can buy Graphite sticks on ebay from China, cheap. That's where I got mine. |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
3 users liked this useful post by applor
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Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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3 users liked this useful post by Tom Jessop
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Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,042 Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
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Tom thanks for that. The one on the Gold Coast in Labrador is only 5km away from me. I am going to give it a try.
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D.A.Banks |
3 users liked this useful post by Dave Banks
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Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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Mans worst enemy is having to go shopping with SWMBO when the shops are fabric / sewing / dainty hobby stuff but always worthwhile once a blue moon to check it out with her as there are many things that could be used in building the layout , scenery etc at more sensible prices than our hobby stores .
Cheers Tom in Oz.
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4 users liked this useful post by Tom Jessop
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,480 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop
Mans worst enemy is having to go shopping with SWMBO when the shops are fabric / sewing / dainty hobby stuff ...
I am glad to see that I am not the only one suffering this ... But my youngest sister sent us this cartoon the other day ... 
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3 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,253 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Originally Posted by: Drongo This has been the bane of my model train experience. you mention that the outer rails haven't rusted and they need to carry the return current, so why in the hell don't they make the centre pukos out of the same metal ? Can anyone please explain this ? If someone mentions the cost factor, I'll scream - as the hobby costs a lot to start with, then why short charge the whole situation with one of the major components with a cheap part ? Hi Greg, With my fairly rudimentary knowledge of the properties of metals, I think I have an answer. I too have the same bane. The centre pukos are made of what may be called black iron (which tarnishes easily). Black iron is a fairly soft (usually sheeeted) metal at the low level of the elaborately transformed part of the manufacture spectrum. This is not steel, or stainless steel, both of which are harder. Rolling wheels can run on hard steel without destructive wear in the medium to long term, hence the use of stainless steel for the rails. The Märklin slider pick-up is also made of soft metal, I believe mostly brass, but the later ones also seem to be a spring metal of some sort Sliding along a soft metal reduces the wear of both the puko and the slider - soft on soft, if that makes sense. And soft on soft is used to enhance the electrical conductivity of the two metals, which make contact over a very small surface area like 1mm square. If you substitute stainless steel as the centre puko material, you would soon wear a groove (or worse - an elongated hole) in the pick-up slider. Kimball Hi Kimball, thanks for the explanation. I understand exactly what you mean, however, spring steel for the pickup shoe is pretty hard, and if the pukos are made of spring steel, then it's spring steel on spring steel which is the same as soft on soft. The same hardness on each other won't change the degree of wear. Am I wrong ? Regards Greg |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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1 user liked this useful post by Drongo
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,480 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Drongo
Hi Kimball, thanks for the explanation. I understand exactly what you mean, however, spring steel for the pickup shoe is pretty hard, and if the pukos are made of spring steel, then it's spring steel on spring steel which is the same as soft on soft. The same hardness on each other won't change the degree of wear. Am I wrong ?
Regards
Greg
The pickup shoe slider has always been nickel plated brass in my experience.
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Drongo ...
Hi Kimball, thanks for the explanation. I understand exactly what you mean, however, spring steel for the pickup shoe is pretty hard, and if the pukos are made of spring steel, then it's spring steel on spring steel which is the same as soft on soft. The same hardness on each other won't change the degree of wear. Am I wrong ?
Regards
Greg Hi Greg, As Alan mentioned, the sliders were originally plated brass (likely). So the plating was likely as hard (or harder than) the pukos, which is why so many collectors/users are interested in how badly the plating wears off. In which case you replace the slider. Yes spring steel would be harder than the pukos in my estimation. Maybe that is the secret: the slider has to be "slightly" harder than the puko to maintain electrical continuity. I am going to pursue the graphite stick or pencil - that appeals to me after preliminary tests. regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
3 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC) Posts: 77 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Hey gents i purchased a large quantity of C track with rusty puckos and used Lanolin top and bottom (not WD40 or similar) to stop the rust and seal up the steel.
Then i went over the puckos with a track rubber, this has yielded excellent results.
A graphite stick as mentioned before is an awesome idea and also works very well after you have removed the rust with the rubber.
The lanolin is amazing at coating and protecting metals, it will dry out and leave a smooth protective film which shouldnt be a problem for dust in the future.
I applied this method to over 400 bits of track and am very happy with the results.
Please be sure to use lanolin and not WD or similar.
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LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them. |
5 users liked this useful post by lewistrain
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Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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Is the Lanolin a paste or spray can dispenser & where did you buy it from ? I am up in Newcastle .
Cheers Tom in Oz .
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Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow
Yes spring steel would be harder than the pukos in my estimation.
Maybe that is the secret: the slider has to be "slightly" harder than the puko to maintain electrical continuity.
Kimball
My own fabricated sliders made with brass sheet work perfectly. |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
1 user liked this useful post by applor
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Joined: 08/03/2016(UTC) Posts: 77 Location: New South Wales, Sydney
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Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop
Is the Lanolin a paste or spray can dispenser & where did you buy it from ? I am up in Newcastle .
Cheers Tom in Oz .
Tom you can score a spray tin of magic sheep grease (lanolin) from bunnings. i am fairly certain blackwoods carries is and also many auto stores like repco, autobahn and supercheap. if you want to see how well it work spray half a peice of rusty or clean steel in lanolin, then place it in salt water for a week. you will be able to clearly see the difference between sprayed and unsprayed. |
LOLOLOL they are just toys, grow up and play with them. |
1 user liked this useful post by lewistrain
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Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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Looks like a trip to Bunnings then about 1 km up the rd at Boolaroo .
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Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,253 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop
Looks like a trip to Bunnings then about 1 km up the rd at Boolaroo .
You better hurry Tom, aunty Gladys is planning on closing all Bunnings store in NSW. |
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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1 user liked this useful post by Drongo
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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 694 Location: England, South Coast
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The brand 'Fluid Film' is lanolin based, it comes in cans or sprays. I have used it on classic cars (and boats) and it is very, very good at preventing rust.
BUT
It is meant to creep. In other words it will creep into welded seams or into wire rope and do a very effective job
It never dries. Well it must at some point but part of its success is that it stays liquid...ish.
HOWEVER
I would see it as industrial, fishermen use it on winches, the armed forces use it, farmers use it. Never tried it on a small scale.
It is common in the US, where it comes from, but hard to find in the UK. Not a clue about availability in Aus/NZ
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1 user liked this useful post by Michael4
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Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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If Bunnings are closed for the play season I am sure my wife has some unwashed wool straight from the sheep some where hidden in her stash's. Might have to go sniffing around when she is out to see what I might find .
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 Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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really guys, please do not leave home to buy items. Dammit.
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3 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
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