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Offline Janne75  
#1 Posted : 06 February 2020 22:55:18(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi all,

These are probably just dumb questions but I have to ask these as I don’t have any experience installing Märklin current conducting close couplers (in NEM pockets). I have a few sets of coaches I want to use these with. I ordered 50 pcs. of these.

With TEE coaches that have factory installed interior lights these should work just fine as they have at the moment current conducting draw bars which are really PITA to put coaches on the track or off the track. This TEE coach set has one or two current pick-up shoes. Similar to my DRG Rheingold 41928 set which has table lights and current conducting close couplers from the factory.

But I have also DRG coaches like 43211 etc. All coaches have their own current pick-up shoe as almost twenty years ago I installed Märklin lightning kits to all these coaches. Is it now possible to just use one or two current pick-up shoes (in the first and the last one) with these coaches and take off those other ones? Then install current conducting close couplers between the coaches?

I have many SNCF Märklin 4244, 4245 and 4246 coaches also with their own current pick-up shoes/sliders. These have Märklin interior lightning kits installed. Is it possible to use with these also only 1-2 pick-up shoes and be able to have lights in all coaches with these current conducting close couplers?

I want to install these couplers also to my DB 27 cm long coaches from 29855 starter set and the extension coach set. There is not any interior light kits installed yet, but I understood that these coaches should be better ready to current conducting couplers. So is it like I only have to change the couplers to current conducting close couplers and install Märklin interior light kits or do I need something else too? If yes what do I need then?

Thank you very much in advance! I’m not an expert in these coach interior light things... RollEyes

Regards,
Janne

Edited by user 03 March 2020 22:38:28(UTC)  | Reason: I have still issues with 7330 light kits and current conducting close couplers. See my last reply.

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Agneaux  
#2 Posted : 07 February 2020 01:37:59(UTC)
Agneaux

Australia   
Joined: 16/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 34
When marklin states that coaches "are prepared for lighting" they usually have the conducting plate already installed in the bogies.
This connects the couplers with the lighting kit. The coupler makes contact with one end and the lighting plugs into the other.
Note that theses are large 4-axle bogies. Can't remember doing any single axle carriages.

Check the marklin database for the correct lighting kit. The bogie plate differs, depending on the carriage and the bogies installed on it
I'm sure that the kits come with the plates anyway for the older models. When updating newing models, you'll have parts left over.

Do a google image search for catalogue number. this will show you the difference between the two types. At least two types IIRC.

This is my recollection of how it all works.


EDIT: memories return.
Quote:
I have many SNCF Märklin 4244, 4245 and 4246 coaches also with their own current pick-up shoes/sliders. These have Märklin interior lightning kits installed. Is it possible to use with these also only 1-2 pick-up shoes and be able to have lights in all coaches with these current conducting close couplers?

these may be carriages that dont have any hardware like the bogie plate. Connecting the coupler to the lighting might be difficult, if not impossible.
this is what i meant about carriages with single fixed axles compared to twin axle bogies.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Agneaux
Offline Agneaux  
#3 Posted : 07 February 2020 01:52:31(UTC)
Agneaux

Australia   
Joined: 16/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

they have at the moment current conducting draw bars which are really PITA to put coaches on the track or off the track. This TEE coach set has one or two current pick-up shoes. Similar to my DRG Rheingold 41928

Regards,
Janne


try using those drawbars on the 42283 metal set. the carriages are so heavy that one coupler eventually slips out and you have two half-trains.
i think theres a coupler set that is just couplers and not a "kit" without any more hardware. these should just plug in.
You lose the close coupling effect (unless theres a newer version that fixes this).

Offline Janne75  
#4 Posted : 07 February 2020 11:12:35(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Agneaux Go to Quoted Post
When marklin states that coaches "are prepared for lighting" they usually have the conducting plate already installed in the bogies.
This connects the couplers with the lighting kit. The coupler makes contact with one end and the lighting plugs into the other.
Note that theses are large 4-axle bogies. Can't remember doing any single axle carriages.

Check the marklin database for the correct lighting kit. The bogie plate differs, depending on the carriage and the bogies installed on it
I'm sure that the kits come with the plates anyway for the older models. When updating newing models, you'll have parts left over.

Do a google image search for catalogue number. this will show you the difference between the two types. At least two types IIRC.

This is my recollection of how it all works.


EDIT: memories return.
Quote:
I have many SNCF Märklin 4244, 4245 and 4246 coaches also with their own current pick-up shoes/sliders. These have Märklin interior lightning kits installed. Is it possible to use with these also only 1-2 pick-up shoes and be able to have lights in all coaches with these current conducting close couplers?

these may be carriages that dont have any hardware like the bogie plate. Connecting the coupler to the lighting might be difficult, if not impossible.
this is what i meant about carriages with single fixed axles compared to twin axle bogies.


Hi and thank you for your help

These SNCF 4244, 4245 and 4246 are also four axle coaches. So maybe also these have those conducting plates already installed in the bogies?

It seems like this will be then easier than I first thought. I will soon get those current conducting close couplers so I will test how it goes.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline rhfil  
#5 Posted : 07 February 2020 15:51:10(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 73
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
I would also be interested as I have a couple of cars that I would like to light up and installing the drawbar is a pain. In fact I will check to see if the drawbar connects with the coupling by installing one on the car I have lit up to see if there is continuity between the drawbar and the coupling.
Offline rhfil  
#6 Posted : 07 February 2020 18:36:42(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 73
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
I just looked at the manuals for the 72020 and the 72021 and the 72020 seems to be for cars without drawbars and existing lighting while the 72021 seems to be for cars with drawbars and lighting and if you want to replace the drawbars on all but one of the cars. Would love to see or hear your success with the cars without lighting as I would like to do the same with some of my cars.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 07 February 2020 22:03:39(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 889
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Most Märklin passenger cars are not equipped with a slider, a ground return on one of the bogie, a contact tongue on the draw bar.
If you want to illuminate your cars you must install the contact tongue on each draw bar (by far the most delicate thing to do because you need to dis-assemble completely the passenger car, must not lose the central return springs).
Also you need on each car a ground return flat spring (in contact with the 2 axles of one bogie).
and of course the lighting set.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
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Offline Agneaux  
#8 Posted : 08 February 2020 05:26:14(UTC)
Agneaux

Australia   
Joined: 16/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi

Most Märklin passenger cars are not equipped with a slider, a ground return on one of the bogie, a contact tongue on the draw bar.
If you want to illuminate your cars you must install the contact tongue on each draw bar (by far the most delicate thing to do because you need to dis-assemble completely the passenger car, must not lose the central return springs).
Also you need on each car a ground return flat spring (in contact with the 2 axles of one bogie).
and of course the lighting set.
Cheers
Jean


^^ all of this.
If your coach doesnt say "prepared for internal lighting" in the description then you have some work as stated above.

Quote:

These SNCF 4244, 4245 and 4246 are also four axle coaches. So maybe also these have those conducting plates already installed in the bogies?

Sorry, youre better placed to decide on that than I am. My guess is that, that specific coach set regardless of livery, will have its own unique lighting set.

The 42757 set was issued in 2002, yet the cars in that set all had slightly differing lighting and I think all had a slider.
the 42767 set issued in 2015? - gets around this problem by dispensing with lighting and the pre-fitment altogether. Not even sure if the diner has lit tables.

M-users 42767 dicsuss

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Offline Janne75  
#9 Posted : 08 February 2020 09:48:56(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I should get those current conducting close couplers in the beginning of the next week. I opened many types of my coaches like 29855 starter set DB same as 42758 set, plastic silberlinge from some starter set 29820?, those DRG coaches already installed with interior light kits (43201, 43211, 43221, 43231, 43261) and so on. All of these have those metal ”brass?” plates near the couplings in the end of the coaches already installed from the factory. I think this is what makes all of these ”already ready for current conducting close couplers”. But are those NEM sockets also current conducting or how will current go through otherwise? They look like plastic ones but are they made conductive?

I also opened one of that type SNCF 4244, 4245, 4246 and it does not have those ”brass metal plates” in the floor of the coaches so this convinces me about that these are not ”already ready for current conducting close couplers”. It was also the only coach type that I had problems to put it back together as it is very tight in the center section of the body. I decided I will not open again that type of coach.

Interesting that I found out that one of my older era 1 set 42754 all coaches have interior lights factory installed. I had forgot this... But lights are only working in those end baggage coaches as these have sliders. Soon I will install current conducting couplers so this set is easy to get interior lights working in all coaches.

Regards,
Janne

Edited by user 09 February 2020 12:21:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 08 February 2020 19:49:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 889
Location: Paris, France
Hi
On Märklin passenger cars I purchased in the last 10 years, the construction includes:
- a frame (plastic) with 2 axle holes for bogies
- 2 bogies with a hollow axle to clip on the frame and to receive the slider
- a metal rectangular iron plate (to add weight)
- 2 coupler mechanisms (a V-shaped piece (Deichsel in German) and its coil spring. They look like this
UserPostedImage
Plse disregard the text I used on a German forum.
- 2 brass plates to hold the coupler mechanisms in place.

This is also what Märklin calls "prepared for lighting".

To have a lighting you need to add:
- a current-conducting coupler (unless you want a slider per car instead of one per consist)
- a flat contact spring that is inserted into the coupler pocket at one end and has the same V- shape of the coupler mechanism. (see note 1)
- an illumination bloc (LEDs)
- a ground pick-up shoe ("H" shaped to be clipsed in one bogie with a ground (brown) wire.

Note 1 : What Märklin could easily do is to factory install this flat contact spring to avoid a complete disassembling of every car when you want to install lights.
For the end user it is a delicate operation that can result in damaging the car by breaking the tiny plastic locking tabs or, losing the mechanism coil spring.
In fact the Preparation means that you can purchase the parts (above) and disassemble and reassemble the whole car.
Competitors more and more sell lighted cars directly with light intensity adjustment.
Sorry for the long yakkeddy yak but it is shocking (I think) that Märklin forces us to such a delicate operation when it could be far simpler.
Cheers
Jean
My lay-out videos
latest vid
humping yard
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Janne75  
#11 Posted : 12 February 2020 23:55:17(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I got those 50 pcs. current conducting close couplers. Now they are installed to those six TEE coaches and also to six DRG 432xx series coaches. I removed sliders from four of these DRG coaches and left them in the end coaches. Now the lights work perfectly without too much noise and friction from many sliders. Märklin 42754 set is also now equipped with current conducting couplers and work perfectly. I will order some lightning kits 11 x Märklin 7330 for eight 29855/42758 type coaches and three ”Silberlinge” coaches from 29845 starter set. I won a few auctions so I can extend my DRG 432xx train from six coaches to eleven coaches. I bought Märklin 43258 and 43259 DRG sets. They will also get these current conducting close couplers (I had to order more of them... Wink ) and lightning kits 4 x 73150 and 1 x 73155.

I also won an auction of Märklin 43290 ”Merkur” set. These have factory installed interior lightning and current conducting close couplers.

I will not even try to open those SNCF 4244, 4245 and 4246 coaches. They are so difficult to put back together as the sides are so tight fit. Best to let them be just how they are now. One slider per coach. Noisy? Yes! BigGrin

I have one Märklin set DRG 42762 with different type current conducting couplers but I don’t know the manufacturer. These are not compatible with Märklin close couplers. Problem is there are not any sliders in this set. Only interior lightning installed and those odd looking ”like hand shaking” current conducting couplers. I have an extension set of two coaches for this 42762 set = 42763 set with normal Märklin couplers and no interior lightning. I have to figure this out how to get lights to this nice old train consist.

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Agneaux  
#12 Posted : 18 February 2020 10:31:00(UTC)
Agneaux

Australia   
Joined: 16/03/2018(UTC)
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post

I have one Märklin set DRG 42762 with different type current conducting couplers but I don’t know the manufacturer. These are not compatible with Märklin close couplers. Problem is there are not any sliders in this set. Only interior lightning installed and those odd looking ”like hand shaking” current conducting couplers. I have an extension set of two coaches for this 42762 set = 42763 set with normal Märklin couplers and no interior lightning. I have to figure this out how to get lights to this nice old train consist.

Cheers,
Janne


I would have thought that the Mitropa car would have the slider? I can't remember.


Offline Janne75  
#13 Posted : 03 March 2020 22:26:05(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
I just looked at the manuals for the 72020 and the 72021 and the 72020 seems to be for cars without drawbars and existing lighting while the 72021 seems to be for cars with drawbars and lighting and if you want to replace the drawbars on all but one of the cars. Would love to see or hear your success with the cars without lighting as I would like to do the same with some of my cars.


Hi,

Like I wrote before installation for my DRG coaches was a success. But now when I bought Märklin 7330 light kits for eleven 29855/42758 type DB coaches I have to say I just really hate how this light set is made. No plug connections like in 73150 or 73155 sets. Just some contact ”tongue” metal strips you have to connect the wires in. I also had to install contact springs to coupler pockets and these are not coming from factory with 7330 kit. To dismantle a coach or installing those contact springs is easy for me like everything else except when you want to have only one slider and other coaches without one. Then it gets complicated with these 7330 light kits. The problem is you have to connect those brass plates connectors to this 7330 light kit so you have to use some extra wires which are not also coming with this kit. When you contact these extra wires it is very PITA as it is difficult to get them to stay in place in those contact ”tongues”. It seems like these 7330 light kits are more manufactured for installation type like one slider per each coach and not for current conducting close couplers. It is relatively easy to connect one wire per light bar end but not more than that. I may end up with just installing all of these 7330 kits this easy way as I’m so frustrated with these kits at the moment. But then I will loose that what my main goal was. Only 1-2 sliders and current conducting close couplers for eleven coaches.

Or maybe I will install these differently. First just connect those two brass plate connectors with each other to get the connectivity between those couplers. Then just solder one wire from one brass plate connector to get current to 7330 positive ”terminal”. Grounding is easy as only one wire needs to be connected per coach. These 7330 light kits are not like plug and play sets for use with current conducting close couplers and I’m dissapointed with them. I know there is Märklin 72021 sets which could be used to get these done, but again it gets even more expensive to have them done if I still buy eleven 72021 sets... ThumbDown

First I bought eleven 7330 light kits and just though it is enough when I had already bought before current conducting close couplers. With 73150 or 73155 light kits it was like that... but not with 7330. Today I bought just those coupler contact springs separately from my Märklin dealer. But now I still need those wires to contact to those brass plates. I have to take a short brake from these 7330 installations and see how I will do it.

If someone else uses these 29855 or 42758 sets DB 27 cm long coaches with 7330 light kits AND current conducting close couplers please let me know how did you do it? With one 72021 set per coach I assume. RollEyes

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 04 March 2020 00:16:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,030
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I've converted all my French coaches with Roco 4 pin electrical couplings and I can't remember being difficult to open them or putting them together again, some times the first time is the hardest one but after that its ok

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Janne75  
#15 Posted : 04 March 2020 09:11:08(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I've converted all my French coaches with Roco 4 pin electrical couplings and I can't remember being difficult to open them or putting them together again, some times the first time is the hardest one but after that its ok

John


Hi John

I will leave my SNCF coaches like they are now so each passenger coach will have their own slider. I can live with that as I don’t want to have even more troubles with them.

I have more issues with these 7330 light kits and DB 27 cm long coaches from 29855 starter set or 42758 extension set for them. But today I figured out how I will do these. There comes a long enough black thin wire with every 7330 kit. I will use these and I will buy those small 2.8 mm wide female brass crimp connectors. Then I will cut that wire to proper lenght and make an wire with soldered connectors in each end of it. I will connect those brass plates protecting coupler springs etc. with these wires as these have male 2.8 mm connectors in them. So this way I will have good connectivity trough all coaches current conducting close couplers. Then I just solder a wire to one of these crimp connectors for each coach to supply current to these 7330 light kits light diffuser bars positive terminals or what it is called. At the other ends I will just connect that one ground wire from these kits to light diffuser bars negative terminals. I first thought it will be easy just to connect shorter wires from each end of those brass plates to light diffuser bar and have conductivity through this but it is not a reliable way to do it and those 7330 kits ”connectors” or ”spring connectors” are best to use with only one small wire per each end of it.

I still have to decide how I will route those wires from brass plates through coaches. Maybe under those plastic interior seats so those will not be visible in any way.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Janne75  
#16 Posted : 17 March 2020 22:38:51(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Hi

Today I got two sets of Märklin 7317 lighting kits. One 7317 kit is for two 3-axle wagons. I installed these kits to my DB 3-axle ”rebuild cars” from 29500 Mega Starter set. These cars are without ”DB cookie”. I installed only one slider to this four car combo and instead of using those kind of permanently connected current conducting draw bars I used current conducting close couplers. These lighting kits were a pleasure to install. Much better product than those 7330 lighting kits.

Cool

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Janne75
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