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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#1 Posted : 19 June 2019 14:04:51(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,987
Location: NY, NY
Hi all,

A friend and I recently acquired a small-medium collection of late 1940's Marklin HO. I was the minority buyer in this deal and am only taking a few pieces due to lack of funds and the trains being a bit older than my collecting tastes, but there is some incredible stuff. (more on that later once unpacked etc...)

But for now a question I can use some help with- we need to box things up correctly as everything was mismatched when packed. The freight cars are driving me crazy. In a few instances there are multiple examples of the same car/part number, and I need to make sure they go in the correct boxes- which are not all the same...

For example: I have two boxes for a 326 Banana car. One is the earlier plain tan, and the other the red diamond style. The problem repeats across a few other models and is driving me a little crazy.

So the big question is- in what year did marklin switch from plain tan to the red/maroon pattern boxes for freight cars? I can date and ID the cars no problem via kolls, but the boxes I have no idea how to match to them and get it right. Should it help I think the earliest pieces are ~1947 and there may be some 1950/51, but everything I've dated so far is right in the 48-49 range.

Thanks!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#2 Posted : 20 June 2019 15:24:20(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,599
If you post photos of the boxes we can certainly help order them by production year. Generally that transition is tough - certainly in 1947 most of the rolling stock boxes were tan. Probably 1948 and 1949 too. By 1950/1951 I believe they were almost all red diamond boxes. The labels will help you too...

Paul
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#3 Posted : 20 June 2019 15:55:05(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,987
Location: NY, NY
Thanks Paul! That is actually an excellent start for me. Is there anywhere online I can learn about labels?

I sorted my 326 conundrum fairly easily via common sense. But as another challenge, I have a few 316s and a few boxes. Some grey cars, some brown cars, and all dating similarly so all is confusing! LOL

I'll try and snap photos this evening, the problem is they are all at the widow's house, and some goes north to a friend in MA and some south to me in NY. So in the second round of boxing things tonight I've got to get mostly right, otherwise its a game of fedexing them back and forth at a later date.
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline kamstutz  
#4 Posted : 20 June 2019 19:01:46(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Orlando, FL
I know the problem of matching cars with their boxes. The problem is compounded also because these days you find "replica" cartons that are mixed in with originals. Most recently I bought a 315 open box car with brakesman's cabin and "original box". The box looked legitimate on the eBay picture depicting it, but when I received it I noticed otherwise.

The box top didn't quite fit onto the box bottom. Closer observation revealed that they were indeed mismatched - the bottom part of the box an obvious replica due to the clean cardboard and pristine staples. Also the height of the box was about 1/4" (+- 0.6cm) too low for the wagon. Of course you couldn't see this in the photos. Adding insult to injury I noticed that the box top's label seemed "strange". I looked closer with a magnifying glass and the numbers of the model on the label, "315g" which appeared original again in the auction photo, were altered. The last two digit has been carefully scraped off and new numbers were in it's place. So only the "3" of the "315g" was original. The letter "g" was added with pencil by a very talented artist. I should have caught the forgery because with the addition of the letter "g" the centering of the text on the label was no longer perfect as is the case with original labels.

In any case I feel your pain for matching boxes and cars. As Paul pointed out we can help with your "matchmaking" if you attach some pictures.

Kurt
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#5 Posted : 02 July 2019 02:54:47(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,599
Hi friends,

Here is my quick guide for early boxes for freight / rolling stock - from roughly 1947 to 1951. For some reason I couldn't find good examples of boxes stamped 1950 but you can see the transition in there. The 1950 boxes are similar to the early 1951 box.

boxes

I provide one image for easy comparison. I tried to make it high resolution but if you want an individual image please let me know. Please note these photos are pulled from reference images online so in some cases I don't have all angles and these are the best photos I have available.

In doing this research the myth of the control stamp becomes even more interesting! It seems "M" was used in 1948 then "J" and then back to "M" in 1951 ... the stamps certainly do follow a chronology (not linear) but it's difficult to decipher.

Here's an article on the topic: https://marklinstop.com/...marklin-boxes-1935-1956/

Best wishes,

Paul

Edited by user 15 February 2020 18:35:46(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#6 Posted : 02 July 2019 15:48:23(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,987
Location: NY, NY
Super useful- thank you!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline Soest  
#7 Posted : 30 January 2020 19:26:30(UTC)
Soest


Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 190
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
20200130_130827.jpgHere are some pictures of what I believe are late 40's to early 50's boxes for passenger wagons.

Mike
Why do grown men play with trains?
Their wives insist they are insane
But their dreams they won't let down the drain
'Cause there ain't no thing so hard to lose as those disappearing railway blues.
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#8 Posted : 31 January 2020 17:37:41(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,599
Hi Mike,

Here's some of my analysis on the photo of the boxes.

box_analysis.jpg

Paul
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Offline Soest  
#9 Posted : 01 February 2020 18:20:34(UTC)
Soest


Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 190
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Thanks very much, Paul. Very interesting.

Mike
Why do grown men play with trains?
Their wives insist they are insane
But their dreams they won't let down the drain
'Cause there ain't no thing so hard to lose as those disappearing railway blues.
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