 Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Hi guys  A question came to mind: A layout and the rights of its designer. I wonder if every designer of a route has property rights on his layout? If while surfing on the forum or anywhere else on the net, I spot a layout that is exactly the one I want to make. Can I reproduce it without asking for anything or do I have to do something? Personally, my conscience of respect for the laws pushes me to ask the designer for permission. But in reality, what is it like? Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
 1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,563 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Thewolf
IMO, if you spot something (a layout) on the public domain (TV show, exhibition, book,..) you are perfectly entitled to reproduce / replicate / take inspiration it for your own usage (i.e.: do not try to sell it as a business).
If on the other hand you want to distribute , sell, even without profit, then you must check if there are restrictions, deposed model, copyright before starting your business activity.
PS! it is common practice to take inspiration from other layouts, real landscape for your own creation.
Cheers
Jean |
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1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB  Hi Thewolf
IMO, if you spot something (a layout) on the public domain (TV show, exhibition, book,..) you are perfectly entitled to reproduce / replicate / take inspiration it for your own usage (i.e.: do not try to sell it as a business).
If on the other hand you want to distribute , sell, even without profit, then you must check if there are restrictions, deposed model, copyright before starting your business activity.
PS! it is common practice to take inspiration from other layouts, real landscape for your own creation.
Cheers
Jean Thank you Jean That's what I thought. I found the layout I needed here on this forum. In all conscience, I sent an MP and an e-mail to the member to let him know that I was going to strongly inspire myself from his layout. I feel calmer. Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
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 Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 488
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Unless you try to sell the design you should not run into any troubles. You can contact the designer and say you are you using their design, most likely they will consider it a form of flattery.
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2 users liked this useful post by SteamNut
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 Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 433 Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
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Does the creator claim copyright for his work? If not, you can safely assume that he/she has placed it in public domain. Then you can use the layout in any way you wish, including republishing it. Of course, good manners suggest that even then credit is given to the original creator. And asking for permission as suggested by SteamNut is a nice gesture that will be appreciated. If the creator claims a copyright for the layout, then it should be honoured. As Wikipedia states, "Copyright is the exclusive right given to the creator of a creative work to reproduce the work". To be on the safe side, one should not republish such a layout in this forum, for instance, unless the creator has explicitly given a permission to it through a public license such as Creative Commons licenses. For instance, the Märklin Magazin Gleispläne are explicitly copyrighted by Märklin, and should not be reproduced, say, in this forum. (Embedding a link to them, as I just did, is in my understanding OK.) You can still build one of these layouts and publish pictures and videos of it as much as you like - the whole point of publishing them was to encourage such behaviour. |
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1 |
1 user liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Does the creator claim copyright for his work? If not, you can safely assume that he/she has placed it in public domain. Then you can use the layout in any way you wish, including republishing it. Of course, good manners suggest that even then credit is given to the original creator. And asking for permission as suggested by SteamNut is a nice gesture that will be appreciated. If the creator claims a copyright for the layout, then it should be honoured. As Wikipedia states, "Copyright is the exclusive right given to the creator of a creative work to reproduce the work". To be on the safe side, one should not republish such a layout in this forum, for instance, unless the creator has explicitly given a permission to it through a public license such as Creative Commons licenses. For instance, the Märklin Magazin Gleispläne are explicitly copyrighted by Märklin, and should not be reproduced, say, in this forum. (Embedding a link to them, as I just did, is in my understanding OK.) You can still build one of these layouts and publish pictures and videos of it as much as you like - the whole point of publishing them was to encourage such behaviour. Thank you I bring friendly to your attention that I have already sent a PM to the designer who is a member of this forum, long before the comments here. Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,475 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Does the creator claim copyright for his work? If not, you can safely assume that he/she has placed it in public domain. Then you can use the layout in any way you wish, including republishing it. Of course, good manners suggest that even then credit is given to the original creator. And asking for permission as suggested by SteamNut is a nice gesture that will be appreciated. If the creator claims a copyright for the layout, then it should be honoured. As Wikipedia states, "Copyright is the exclusive right given to the creator of a creative work to reproduce the work". To be on the safe side, one should not republish such a layout in this forum, for instance, unless the creator has explicitly given a permission to it through a public license such as Creative Commons licenses. For instance, the Märklin Magazin Gleispläne are explicitly copyrighted by Märklin, and should not be reproduced, say, in this forum. (Embedding a link to them, as I just did, is in my understanding OK.) You can still build one of these layouts and publish pictures and videos of it as much as you like - the whole point of publishing them was to encourage such behaviour. Any item you publish has automatic copyright, even it not explicitly claimed. Explicitly putting an item into the public domain is the only way to remove copyright. Lack of a copyright annotation does NOT mean you can safely assume it is in the public domain. If using an item like the wolf wants to then I believe that he can do so under 'creative commons' usage - but IANAL (I am Not A Lawyer). If referencing where the inspiration came from then by all means provide a link to the original material. In any 'blurb' about the layout it is only good manners to list where the inspiration comes from.
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2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Does the creator claim copyright for his work? If not, you can safely assume that he/she has placed it in public domain. Then you can use the layout in any way you wish, including republishing it. Of course, good manners suggest that even then credit is given to the original creator. And asking for permission as suggested by SteamNut is a nice gesture that will be appreciated. If the creator claims a copyright for the layout, then it should be honoured. As Wikipedia states, "Copyright is the exclusive right given to the creator of a creative work to reproduce the work". To be on the safe side, one should not republish such a layout in this forum, for instance, unless the creator has explicitly given a permission to it through a public license such as Creative Commons licenses. For instance, the Märklin Magazin Gleispläne are explicitly copyrighted by Märklin, and should not be reproduced, say, in this forum. (Embedding a link to them, as I just did, is in my understanding OK.) You can still build one of these layouts and publish pictures and videos of it as much as you like - the whole point of publishing them was to encourage such behaviour. Any item you publish has automatic copyright, even it not explicitly claimed. Explicitly putting an item into the public domain is the only way to remove copyright. Lack of a copyright annotation does NOT mean you can safely assume it is in the public domain. If using an item like the wolf wants to then I believe that he can do so under 'creative commons' usage - but IANAL (I am Not A Lawyer). If referencing where the inspiration came from then by all means provide a link to the original material. In any 'blurb' about the layout it is only good manners to list where the inspiration comes from. I agree |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
1 user liked this useful post by Thewolf
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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This question came up a few years ago where some members were posting photos with 'Copyright' watermarks embedded in the photos. Juhan's position at that time was that he considered anything posted on the forum, including photos to be in the public domain and therefore able to be copied. If members wanted to assert copyright on something or the original poster did not have the rights to post an item then the advice was not to post it in the forum. I notice that some involved are now posting to Facebook which is more public domain than what the forum is!
Of course, it doesn't hurt to be courteous and advise the original poster that you want to copy/replicate/use their layout design, which Serge has already done.
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2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland
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The first person who put a circle round the Christmas tree must have a lot of folk wanting to copy his layout lol.
I like to design and make my own layout which then is my idea and work. Good fun making the design as well. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 433 Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan
Any item you publish has automatic copyright, even it not explicitly claimed. Explicitly putting an item into the public domain is the only way to remove copyright. Lack of a copyright annotation does NOT mean you can safely assume it is in the public domain.
Yes, this is correct - copyright is automatic. Nevertheless, I expect that creators who publish their works without claiming copyright probably do not plan to enforce their exclusive rights. |
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1 |
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Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC
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I have received the response from the member in question. He has no objection to my drawing on the work he did or using it. He wishes me well. I am able to work I'll introduce you to my source when I publish my layout. Thewolf |
Project Estrie Rail Road-CS3-Track C- Itrain-Digital |
5 users liked this useful post by Thewolf
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Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,205 Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
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Originally Posted by: SteamNut Unless you try to sell the design you should not run into any troubles. You can contact the designer and say you are you using their design, most likely they will consider it a form of flattery. Indeed. |
Richard |
1 user liked this useful post by rugauger
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Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 76
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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz This question came up a few years ago where some members were posting photos with 'Copyright' watermarks embedded in the photos. Juhan's position at that time was that he considered anything posted on the forum, including photos to be in the public domain and therefore able to be copied. If members wanted to assert copyright on something or the original poster did not have the rights to post an item then the advice was not to post it in the forum. I notice that some involved are now posting to Facebook which is more public domain than what the forum is!
Of course, it doesn't hurt to be courteous and advise the original poster that you want to copy/replicate/use their layout design, which Serge has already done. As already stated by another, a copyright - which exists with or without the (c) type or icon or in writing - exists for any original material published anywhere. Simply publishing your own unique work on a public forum does not waive an individual's legal copyright claim. A forum - such as this - may well have in its terms of use a statement that by posting to the site users give others a non-commercial license to copy or use the material privately (or for posting/re-posting in the forum), but this again doesn't waive a broader legal copyright. Copyright generally protects commercial use - profiting from your own work, or the work of another. Here is a summary of the LEGAL fair use exceptions: https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html And as also mentioned many publishers, like Marklin magazine, even provide a special exception to allow for explicit copying if used for non-commercial, private use. The personal message and request to copy, use, borrow whatever from another member's post, ideas, layout design, etc. is a great courtesy, and is really at the heart of how copyright was intended to to be used without a clear legal "fair use" exception and without a creator's explicit statement of allowing "non-commercial" use. The key to copyright is COMMERCIAL use. Private, non-commercial use is broadly allowed. |
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station |
2 users liked this useful post by midwestbls
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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I think you are quoting US law which is fine, but as this site is hosted out of Sweden I would think Swedish law would apply (whatever that is).
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1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland
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If anybody thinks a toy model layout should be copyright then they are in the wrong hobby. Some might get an idea from a part of anothers layout but why copy the whole layout. Most beginners will start with a circle and a siding etc of which there must be a few million but it can hardly be copyright.
In my view the point of the hobby is making your own layout. You can of course try to copy a real local station but I doubt the railway company will have a copyright. We have an expensive hobby but it supposed to be fun and why should anybody care if two or more layouts happen to be the same or similar. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
5 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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 Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,483 Location: Hrvatska
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I don't think you're going to copy someone's layout or any part of it exactly in every detail?
Even the simplest layout with a single circle can be made in a hundred ways, let alone something more complex.
Everyone can choose other objects, epochs, nature, etc.
It's another matter when everything is going to be copied faithfully, such as some layout from Marklin's gleisplan, but then that is stated.
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