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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#1 Posted : 24 October 2019 16:32:18(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 51
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
I have contemplated converting or upgrading some of my older locomotives. For this, I have browsed the Web for information, and also the older threads of the forum. Nevertheless, as I don't have any experience on the matter, I decided to ask for the advice of the other members of the forum, who collectively and individually possess formidable knowledge of the topic. So, please bear with me.

What I am primarily after are improved driving characteristics in line with the natively digital locomotives in my fleet. I don't need sound. If possible and sensible, I nevertheless would like to enable a few other functions, see below.

The locomotives I have in mind are as follows:

BR 89 006, a Delta locomotive that originally came from the Delta starting package 2915 from around 1989. It has a drum-style commutator motor. As the loco has no special features, I am thinking that a basic upgrade package is sufficient. Specifically, I am thinking of the Märklin 60760 kit.

BR 211 286-0, Märklin item no. 3473, another Delta loco from late 1980's. For this, too, the Märklin 60760 kit appears appropriate. Nevertheless, it might be fun to improve the head and tail lights of the loco so that they would change from white to red depending on the driving direction. What do I need for this?

BR V60 1009, Märklin item no. 3065. This dates from mid 1960's and has (I believe) a small flat commutator motor (SFCM). I have two of these, so one can be converted. For upgrading the motor I am thinking of the Märklin 60943 kit. The special attraction of this model are the Telex couplers, so I should like to select a decoder that can handle them as well. I am looking at ESU Lokpilot 4.0. Do I need some other stuff to make the Telex couplers work?

BR V200 056, Märklin item no. 3021, variant 3021.6. This also comes from mid-1960's. It is a candidate for conversion as I also possess a BR V200 027, variant 3021.05. If I have got it right, the loco has a large flat commutator motor (LFCM). Therefore, the upgrade kit Märklin 60944 seems fit for the job. For this one, too, I am thinking of the ESU Lokpilot 4.0. Like for the BR 211, it would be nice to upgrade the head and tail lights of the loco so they would change colours depending on the driving direction.

So, in summary, my shopping list would consist of two Märklin 60760 kits, one each of Märklin 60943 and Märklin 60944 kits, and two ESU Lokpilot 4.0 decoders. Can this be improved (within the scope of my goals)? Do I need some additional materials?

- Martti M.
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 24 October 2019 17:05:54(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,469
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Martti,

I have done conversions similar to those that you are proposing. In general I would agree with your choices, except that maybe I would use a Marklin 60972 mLd3 decoder instead of the ESU, as the Marklin decoder will not require any CV changes to work well with the converted motor. My conversions using the ESU decoders do not always work well unless I do a lot of fiddling with CVs.

Your suggestion to add working red tail lights might be a challenging project. The locos involved have blanked out red tail lights, so to get them to light up you need to drill the body shell where the red lights are and install LEDs which would shine through the holes. It's do-able but fiddly. Alternatively you can try to get the white lights to change to red, but this would involve changing the light bulbs to LEDs and finding some that change colour.

Either way, good luck!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#3 Posted : 08 November 2019 15:44:11(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 51
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Just to close off this theme, I bought two 60760 sets and a 60943 + 60972 combo and so far I have installed the former sets to my BR 89 and BR 211 locomotives. The installation process went smoothly especially as my elder son did much of the soldering work: he is much more meticulous than me.

The only trouble came when we assembled the BR 211 afterwards. In particular, the Treibgestell (part 16 in the exploded image of the loco) got jammed and the locomotive refused to move. After several reassemblies it finally started to run properly.

My only explanation for this is that the kinematic chain consisting of the motor gears (part 6), the Treibgestell (part 16) and the small linking part ("Mitnehmer", part 15) can be put together in no less than 8 configurations. They should all be equal, but I suspect that after 30 years of service, one specific configuration had become much more equal than the others. So it took some tries to find it again.

All in all, I am very satisfied with the result. The locomotives work fine and exhibit exactly the kind of performance I was hoping to achieve.
- Martti M.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
Offline eberhardt  
#4 Posted : 09 November 2019 21:43:05(UTC)
eberhardt


Joined: 06/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
I still haven't caught up yet with the complexities of converting to digital, so if I ask what appears to be a stupid question, please educate me. How did you manage to fit the 60760 into the BR 89? I tried and I couldn't make it fit any way I tried. I had to purchase a 60943, which doesn't come with a decoder, so I had to get that separately. ( I then proceeded to fry it). Is there a list of which motor upgrade and which decoder is suitable for a given engine, all mine are old and steam? Thanks, John.
Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#5 Posted : 09 November 2019 23:28:28(UTC)
Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 51
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Thanks for the reply, John! I am also a newbie in the conversion theme, so take my comments with caution.

Nevertheless, the two sets 60760 and 60943 you mention are intended for different types of motors: the former for drum-style commutator motors and the latter for smaller design flat-style commutator motors. (For an overview of different kinds of motors, I recommend peeking into this article from modellbahnkeller.eu.) So if your BR 89 has the latter kind of motor, 60760 was never going to work.

The particular kind of loco I upgraded was BR 89 006, Koll's version 3000.20 that originally came with the 2915 starter set. It had a commutator motor operated by a Delta decoder. So, 60760 was a good fit.

I also own a BR 89 028, version 3000.03 that poses a quite different conversion challenge. I will leave it as is.

I was worried about the space issue, but in the end this particular loco posed no real problems; we just had to route the cables appropriately. The end result of the conversion is shown below; I hope you agree that the handwork of my eldest is quite neat.

- Martti M.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Martti Mäntylä
Offline eberhardt  
#6 Posted : 10 November 2019 10:39:10(UTC)
eberhardt


Joined: 06/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Thank you Martti, My 89 is from a set I bought in 1976, so it's fairly old, the design must have changed a bit. Thanks for the link, I'll study it. Your sons handiwork is much neater than mine, which is probably why it works where as mine simply died on the track. : ) Thanks again, John.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 10 November 2019 10:53:20(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,796
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: eberhardt Go to Quoted Post
Is there a list of which motor upgrade and which decoder is suitable for a given engine...


Marklin did have one on their website, I don't know if it is still there.

AJCKids also has one - https://www.ajckids.com/...klin_tech_tips.ASP?NR=92

Helmut Kern's website lists what motor type various locos have up until about 2004, but this is no guarantee that a given loco can actually be converted.

http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Menue.html

Also check this forum thread - https://www.marklin-user...version-of-M-locos/page1
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Offline eberhardt  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2019 19:19:23(UTC)
eberhardt


Joined: 06/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Thank you Bigdaddynz, that is a most useful list. John.
Offline TEEWolf  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2019 21:41:23(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,006
Originally Posted by: eberhardt Go to Quoted Post
Thank you Bigdaddynz, that is a most useful list. John.


Found good videos in English for conversion a loco to digital.

Marklin Model Railway Club - Wellington NZ




and from ajckids part 1



and part 2



P.S.: Maerklin gives the tipp making pictures from every working step.

I do not only use a white background (as you see in the video), I also use a platter, if any little part falling down are secure contained. Last week I even could buy a platter with a magnetic bottom. But no experience yet with this platter. But I hope never searching a tiny black screw on a dark floor.BigGrin
CS 3 is a controlling station from Märklin - not a central station.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by TEEWolf
Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2019 22:24:20(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,626
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
John, by clarifying what type of loco you've got its always a good idea to show us some photos, whether its the loco itself or the conversion you're trying to do.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Purellum  
#11 Posted : 10 November 2019 22:27:03(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,208
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
I also use a platter, if any little part falling down are secure contained.


I use a white bed sheet, then the small parts doesn't jump or roll Cool

I've tried things like the platters; but have had screws falling next to them or just jump up again,
so I figured it had to be something soft and BIG BigGrin

Per

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline eberhardt  
#12 Posted : 12 November 2019 00:00:49(UTC)
eberhardt


Joined: 06/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
John, by clarifying what type of loco you've got its always a good idea to show us some photos, whether its the loco itself or the conversion you're trying to do.

John


You must have read my mind, I asked my son Saturday if he could get me a small digital camera, (Mine are the old film roll types), so that I can take some pictures of what I'm struggling with. Then he'll have to instruct me in how to get them on here. I'll soon be as technically adept as everyone else on here.Blushing ( Not a chance) I haven't started to build the base of my layout yet but the room is 12' x 8'. That's around 4m x 2m 50cm. See I'm already using metric measurements. Confused The room currently houses my lathe and milling machine and other tools, they will shortly be shifted to the garage and become semi retired. My old garage was excellent for my layout, 24' x 12', but I had to downsize to a small bungalow so everything was bunged in boxes and packed away for 5 years. I have to get everything built before I'm 80, plenty of time, 6 years, and it's indoors, nice and warm with the teapot very close by. I'm currently waiting for Gaugemaster to get hold of some decoders. I've ordered them, so they shouldn't be long, and I also need a few motor upgrade kits, so I have to be patient. John.
Offline eberhardt  
#13 Posted : 12 November 2019 00:17:23(UTC)
eberhardt


Joined: 06/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
I also use a platter, if any little part falling down are secure contained.


I use a white bed sheet, then the small parts doesn't jump or roll Cool

I've tried things like the platters; but have had screws falling next to them or just jump up again,
so I figured it had to be something soft and BIG BigGrin

Per

Cool



A much better idea than my method. I usually have to grovel on my hands and knees wearing my magnifying goggles whilst holding a torch and sweeping the carpet with my hand until I feel something. BigGrin John.
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