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Offline TrainIride  
#51 Posted : 18 December 2016 15:04:33(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
A seminar work,congratulations.ThumpUp


Thank you so much !

And thank you to all those who took the training Smile

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline jvuye  
#52 Posted : 19 December 2016 18:31:38(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
A bit noisy, maybe because of the rotor gear teeth Smile ,

And great both flashing lights when reversing due to this special wiring.
Both coils are "opened" during this transition, so both coils are feeding current to the bulbs...

And see how the loco appreciates wide radius C-track turnouts !!
....



I love this video.
Nothing is like the feeling of "I've done it".
The noise is normal .
Old lady grinding teeth...
Gears of older Märklin loks were mostly stamped, not ground
If you had luck, the gears on you new loco would have been cut with a fresh die....otherwise the profile was mostly off!
Gears are noisy because of improper tooth shape and alignment problem (angle and distance)
That noise will reduce while "running in" is an urban legend.. busted!

Looking at the video: I have the impression that the second axle of the first coach is probably a bit out of gauge (too wide or too narrow) due to the sparking.

The rule is 13.8 mm between the inner flanges of the wheels. Tolerance is +/- 0.1 mm. And of course the wheel should be running true! Wink

Congratulations on a job well done both execution and documentation!

Cheers

Jacques


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline TrainIride  
#53 Posted : 20 December 2016 21:06:36(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
A bit noisy, maybe because of the rotor gear teeth Smile ,

And great both flashing lights when reversing due to this special wiring.
Both coils are "opened" during this transition, so both coils are feeding current to the bulbs...

And see how the loco appreciates wide radius C-track turnouts !!
....



I love this video.
Nothing is like the feeling of "I've done it".
The noise is normal .
Old lady grinding teeth...
Gears of older Märklin loks were mostly stamped, not ground
If you had luck, the gears on you new loco would have been cut with a fresh die....otherwise the profile was mostly off!
Gears are noisy because of improper tooth shape and alignment problem (angle and distance)
That noise will reduce while "running in" is an urban legend.. busted!

Looking at the video: I have the impression that the second axle of the first coach is probably a bit out of gauge (too wide or too narrow) due to the sparking.

The rule is 13.8 mm between the inner flanges of the wheels. Tolerance is +/- 0.1 mm. And of course the wheel should be running true! Wink

Congratulations on a job well done both execution and documentation!

Cheers

Jacques




Hi Jacques,

Thank you for your kind words,
it is such an honor to have congratulations from an expert like you !!

Well, I did not know about the gears manufacturing.
Thank you for sharing this very interesting thing.
So that's why some of my locos are "almost silent"
and some are growling much more, even after oiling.

You have watched the video very carefully to see the spark
under the first coach when passing upon the wide radius turnout.
You can only be right. I will check that axle.
By the way, on these old tin plates recently received,
I still have to adjust the coupler height, another sparks source upon turnouts...

coach_spark.jpg



As you said, I'm really glad I did this job...
Now I can show my loco to my Christmas guests.
See how the happy loco makes blinks again after all this time:

mn3024_blink.jpg

I love these lights and the Buzz of the reversing unit Smile


But there are still small things to be done to refine the work.

I have to find the missing parts for the catenary connections under the roof.

The wire from the pickup shoe is way too short, I have to replace it,
this will give me the opportunity to unmount the contact plate under,
and maybe the axles.
I have just now noticed that sometimes, the big wheels of the second axle without gear - a second axle again ! -
were not not turning so well. I think the axles have to be oiled a bit by the inside, or some old dust to be cleaned.

I'll check it soon, when unmounting the pickup shoe, the contact plate, the shortest wire...

And also the pickup shoe, I'm sure it will need some fine tuning to slide smoothly upon M-track turnouts...

Best Regards
Joël


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Offline jvuye  
#54 Posted : 20 December 2016 21:29:02(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
[
.....
But there are still small things to be done to refine the work.

I have to find the missing parts for the catenary connections under the roof.

The wire from the pickup shoe is way too short, I have to replace it,
this will give me the opportunity to unmount the contact plate under,
and maybe the axles.
I have just now noticed that sometimes, the big wheels of the second axle without gear - a second axle again ! -
were not not turning so well. I think the axles have to be oiled a bit by the inside, or some old dust to be cleaned.

I'll check it soon, when unmounting the pickup shoe, the contact plate, the shortest wire...

And also the pickup shoe, I'm sure it will need some fine tuning to slide smoothly upon M-track turnouts...

Best Regards
Joël



Excellent!
If you are looking for parts, lots of stuff can be found here. (some painting, e.g. roof line, may be required)
http://ritter-restaurati...=;katKey=1.10.2;usrPwd=;

Insulators for roof line are made by Sommerfeldt

Good huntins
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline TrainIride  
#55 Posted : 23 December 2016 19:42:34(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
[
.....
But there are still small things to be done to refine the work.

I have to find the missing parts for the catenary connections under the roof.

The wire from the pickup shoe is way too short, I have to replace it,
this will give me the opportunity to unmount the contact plate under,
and maybe the axles.
I have just now noticed that sometimes, the big wheels of the second axle without gear - a second axle again ! -
were not not turning so well. I think the axles have to be oiled a bit by the inside, or some old dust to be cleaned.

I'll check it soon, when unmounting the pickup shoe, the contact plate, the shortest wire...

And also the pickup shoe, I'm sure it will need some fine tuning to slide smoothly upon M-track turnouts...

Best Regards
Joël



Excellent!
If you are looking for parts, lots of stuff can be found here. (some painting, e.g. roof line, may be required)
http://ritter-restaurati...=;katKey=1.10.2;usrPwd=;

Insulators for roof line are made by Sommerfeldt

Good huntins


Thank you Jacques for this link with a lot or treasures ThumpUp .

Well I started today to check the axle that was not turning so well,
in fact this axle can move a bit vertically, as it is "clearly" written in the 1958 catalog:
"Swing link suspension to the second driving axle
to take up track irregularities and keep both wheels on the rails"
In my case there was no "suspension" Confused .

So I decide to remove the pickup shoe, then the control plate,
and for this to unsolder the too short wire that brings current to the loco.

I discovered a great quantity of dirt that was blocking the suspension.
So I cleaned a bit this part of the body, and it solved this problem.

1_under_contact_plate.JPG

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Offline TrainIride  
#56 Posted : 23 December 2016 19:57:05(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
But, when I mounted back everything and try the loco on the tracks, the loco was in short circuit !

The dirt was insulating the contact plate from the body !!

This contact plate is very old and fragile.
And so thin that now it can bend too much, this way in contact with the chassis.

Let's have a look :


side of the pickup shoe:

2_contact_plate_pickup_shoe_side.JPG


side of the chassis:

3_contact_plate_chassis_side.JPG


where is the short-circuit ? :

4_contact_plate_chassis_short_circuit.JPG

I have planned to fit a thin plastic sheet between the chassis and the contact-plate,
but not enough time today - and no thin plastic found yet Smile .

But now that I have soldered a longer wire, I can unmount the plate easily, so no more access troubles.

So for today, it will be adhesive tape for the insulation and more rigidity:

5_contact_plate_insulating.JPG

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Offline TrainIride  
#57 Posted : 23 December 2016 20:01:49(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
After having re-assembled every thing, no more short-circuit ! BigGrin


6_contact_plate_new_wire.JPG


7_wire_through_chassis.JPG


8_contact_plate_in_place_again.JPG
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#58 Posted : 23 December 2016 20:07:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,610
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
But, when I mounted back everything and try the loco on the tracks, the loco was in short circuit !

The dirt was insulating the contact plate from the body !!

This contact plate is very old and fragile.
And so thin that now it can bend too much, this way in contact with the chassis.

Let's have a look :
...
where is the short-circuit ? :

4_contact_plate_chassis_short_circuit.JPG



I think the short circuit is between the tab that is soldered and the chassis. I would remove the wire, clean off all the solder and redo the joint with a freshly stripped end on the wire, using minimal solder. You should be able to get the solder blob significantly smaller.

Also check carefully how that plate is sitting on its two location pins at the ends. Notice that the holes are slotted, make sure it is pushed as far to the left as possible as it looks like the brass lug could contact the chassis at the right hand end. Two ways to fix that, depending on how the screw hole for the pick up shoe lines up with the chassis: -

  • gently file the left hand end of the insulator so it can move further left

  • gently file the chassis on the right hand end of the right hand recess so the brass lug can no longer touch it.


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Offline TrainIride  
#59 Posted : 23 December 2016 20:22:07(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


I think the short circuit is between the tab that is soldered and the chassis. I would remove the wire, clean off all the solder and redo the joint with a freshly stripped end on the wire, using minimal solder. You should be able to get the solder blob significantly smaller.

Also check carefully how that plate is sitting on its two location pins at the ends. Notice that the holes are slotted, make sure it is pushed as far to the left as possible as it looks like the brass lug could contact the chassis at the right hand end. Two ways to fix that, depending on how the screw hole for the pick up shoe lines up with the chassis: -

  • gently file the left hand end of the insulator so it can move further left

  • gently file the chassis on the right hand end of the right hand recess so the brass lug can no longer touch it.




Thank you for these helpful tips ThumpUp .

I started to insulate the "solder" side (right side) of the plate.
But the short-circuit was also on the left side. OhMyGod

I suspected the plate to have a weak point at left to be almost cut, this giving it to much flexibility.

But I will try your advices soon !

Offline river6109  
#60 Posted : 25 December 2016 15:16:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,626
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the picture above needs one more part, an insulation plate without any metal parts, later produced locos had a deeper cut into the frame, thous preventing it from short circuiting.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline TrainIride  
#61 Posted : 08 January 2017 17:19:27(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
the picture above needs one more part, an insulation plate without any metal parts, later produced locos had a deeper cut into the frame, thous preventing it from short circuiting.

John


I totally agree with you John.
I will try to find a thin insulating thing to put in between.
I really don't understand why the engineers had choosen a so thin and bendable and fragile plate.
This is the Achilles' heel of this so strong loco.
In this so solid chassis, there could have been room to put a thicker bakelite plate,
at least as thick as the one used for the pickup shoe .

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline TrainIride  
#62 Posted : 08 January 2017 17:23:43(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE

Well, I could not resist to give a little sister to my 59' 3024:

This 3023 will give me some help to compare with what I have done on the previous E18.. RollEyes

mn3023_a.JPG
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Offline TrainIride  
#63 Posted : 08 January 2017 19:11:38(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Soooo,

Every E18 brings its own stories and tales,

This blue one is in perfect condition and runs OK straight from the no-box.
Just a few oil drops to add...

I've heard, before, about the problematic relationships between 3023/3024
and the M-track turnouts. I had no problem with the old green 3024, after
bending up a bit to the chassis, on each end, the pickup shoe,
to give it an almost invisible kind of "banana" shape,
and after adding some spring pressure on the small back and front wheels.

But This shiny blue 3023 surprised me derailing every time on only one of my layout turnouts Blink .
After 30mn of tests, the problem was solved .
It was indeed a relational problem, in this old time of great tolerances BigGrin

the context:
the loco comes back to the turnout, from the deflected track.
the turnout is well positioned.

mn3023_on_m_turnout_a.jpg


When the logo goes upon the turnout, the small front wheels pop off the tracks without any reason !! Scared

The solution is there:
The big wheels of the loco, with its huge weight, give some pressure on the moving parts of the turnout.
And you can see the rails moving an pushing the front axle aside !

The proof:
Just press lightly to this point of the turnout,:

mn3023_on_m_turnout_c.jpg

And you will see the rails moving !

So after bending back a little bit the rail at the problem point, no more problem !

mn3023_on_m_turnout_d.jpg
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#64 Posted : 08 January 2017 20:32:59(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,610
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Some of these problems can be very hard to diagnose, but you seem to have found a new problem that I haven't come across before.

But is the guitar players music that bad he really needs to go hide down the tracks ??? Blink

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Offline jvuye  
#65 Posted : 09 January 2017 15:48:39(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Salut Joël!
Just looking at the last picture of the blue loco passing on the switch, it looks as if the front axle/pony wheel may have some gauge discrepancy.(?too narrow?)
If you can, using a caliper ( aka in French "un pied à coulisse") measure the inner spacing between the wheels .
It should read 13.8 mm. A little more is acceptable up to 13.9, but less than that becomes a problem very easily on M track switches
Let us know!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline TrainIride  
#66 Posted : 14 January 2017 22:02:48(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Some of these problems can be very hard to diagnose, but you seem to have found a new problem that I haven't come across before.

But is the guitar players music that bad he really needs to go hide down the tracks ??? Blink



In fact , the guitar man saw the cat crushing a Preiser at the Train Station, so he looked for a more secure place Smile
Despite all, I have never heard a sound from him ...
Offline TrainIride  
#67 Posted : 14 January 2017 22:19:27(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Salut Joël!
Just looking at the last picture of the blue loco passing on the switch, it looks as if the front axle/pony wheel may have some gauge discrepancy.(?too narrow?)
If you can, using a caliper ( aka in French "un pied à coulisse") measure the inner spacing between the wheels .
It should read 13.8 mm. A little more is acceptable up to 13.9, but less than that becomes a problem very easily on M track switches
Let us know!
Cheers



Bonjour Jacques.

You are absolutely right, as usual !
the inner space of the wheels of the blue loco are a bit less than 13.8, and this is valis for all wheels of the loco !
I have trouble reading on the calliper, but lets say about 13.74 so just a bit under 13.8.

So I've compared with the green one, and this time the inner space of the wheels is more than 13.9. and also for all the wheels. Maybe it was adjusted to run better on 3rails DC tracks.

Do you know if I can move the wheels without damage (bending wheels or axles) by hand, or do I kneed a special tool (like "the Puller") .

I will see if I need to do something, because for the time, I have not yet noticed any derailment problems associated with these non-compliant tolerances.


E18_B_G.JPG


Thank you again for your participation. It's a great help for me .

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline jvuye  
#68 Posted : 16 January 2017 19:00:51(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
HI Joël
The only proper way to adjust the spacing is using a wheel puller, and adjust the spacing using a wheel press and a special gauge .
Any other technique like praying on the side with a scredriver or pressing with a vise almost always leads to wobbling wheels.
And with the long wheel base locos like the ones in this topic, the wobble becomes very annoying, at least visually.
The proper tools can be found here:

https://www.fohrmann.com...ciaux/roues-und-essieux/

But of course if you don't live too far, You could come here and I'll adjust this for you.
Feel free to PM me.
Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline TrainIride  
#69 Posted : 21 January 2017 17:47:43(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
HI Joël
The only proper way to adjust the spacing is using a wheel puller, and adjust the spacing using a wheel press and a special gauge .
Any other technique like praying on the side with a scredriver or pressing with a vise almost always leads to wobbling wheels.
And with the long wheel base locos like the ones in this topic, the wobble becomes very annoying, at least visually.
The proper tools can be found here:

https://www.fohrmann.com...ciaux/roues-und-essieux/

But of course if you don't live too far, You could come here and I'll adjust this for you.
Feel free to PM me.
Cheers
Jacques


Hi Jacques.

Thank you for this great link. I will see if I have to make this investment,
I think it will be absolutely necessary if I continue to get old locos.

But I was so happily surprised to see how both green and blue E18 smoothly ran on the C-Track part of my layout,
despite their bad wheels space tolerances, that I wonder if I will not rework the "historic center" part
of the actual layout and renovate the rails ...

It's so nice to see these locos running fluently as in the previous video RollEyes , as they were made for this ....

I had planned to extend the section with C-track and to keep about only 50 percent of the M-track M part,
Now I'm thinking to keep 0 percent of it Smile

We will see...

Best Regards
Joël

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Offline TrainIride  
#70 Posted : 28 January 2017 19:23:50(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Now a little focus on my recently purchased blue one.

Sold as a 1965 model - aka the famous HAMO - AC version ...

mn3023_3024_HAMO_1965.jpg


But there is no Hamo stamp on it.

For me, this one is rather a 70's/80's model from spare parts - #3923

Well I am not yet sure, I have to investigate more.

At fist I was looking fo a solution to complete the under the roof catenary wiring of the 1959 green one.

So let us have a look at the blue loco under the roof :


mn3023_catenary_b.jpg


mn3023_catenary_a.jpg

Surprising isn't it Blink ?

I was expecting a kind of brass plate to connect the two pantographs together,
with a camel shape to follow the roof bump...

So...
If there are here some 3023/3024 owners, please have a look under your loco's roof,
to see if this is the original solution from the factory, and tell me !

Best Regards
Joël

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Offline jvuye  
#71 Posted : 29 January 2017 16:39:52(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Salut Joël
I confirm: it's apparently the "official" set up for the overhead connection.
My 3023, 3024 and MS 800 all are fitted in the same way.
And from memory, all those that passed through my shop for repairs and conversions were build that way.
Hope this answers your question
Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline TrainIride  
#72 Posted : 05 February 2017 14:58:26(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Salut Joël
I confirm: it's apparently the "official" set up for the overhead connection.
My 3023, 3024 and MS 800 all are fitted in the same way.
And from memory, all those that passed through my shop for repairs and conversions were build that way.
Hope this answers your question
Cheers
Jacques


Hi Jacques,

Looks like this model was born at a technological transition time...
So it will be easy now for me to completely complete the green lady wth a wire and two electric lugs.

Nevertheless, I wonder why this wiring was removed by the previous owner,
because it was not interfering with the DC conversion Blink .

Thank you for your helpful answer.

Best Regards
Joël
Offline jvuye  
#73 Posted : 05 February 2017 15:18:03(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Salut Joël
I confirm: it's apparently the "official" set up for the overhead connection.
My 3023, 3024 and MS 800 all are fitted in the same way.
And from memory, all those that passed through my shop for repairs and conversions were build that way.
Hope this answers your question
Cheers
Jacques


Hi Jacques,

Looks like this model was born at a technological transition time...
So it will be easy now for me to completely complete the green lady wth a wire and two electric lugs.

Nevertheless, I wonder why this wiring was removed by the previous owner,
because it was not interfering with the DC conversion Blink .

Thank you for your helpful answer.

Best Regards
Joël


Hi Joël
I don't know for certain why someone would remove the connection between the pantographs, and we don't know the whole life history of your loco either, so we can only speculate.
In any case at least one pantograph would be connected ( Wink )
If it was assembled from parts of the series that Märklin put on the market in the late 70's and that dealers assembled (my dealer in Brussels assembled hundreds of them, and still today has a few 3047 and 3046 on inventory!Smile !) , maybe someone forgot to put that wire.
I confess it's perplexing since earlier locos like my 1951 RSM 800 had an etched connecting plate between the pantos , mounted with a layer of insulation already.
Luckily this slimper solution has no detrimental "cosmetic" consequences ....ThumpUp it's still a pretty loco, (at least IMHO) and that's the only thing that counts, really.
Bon Dimanche
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline TrainIride  
#74 Posted : 05 February 2017 18:04:15(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Hi Jacques,

Bon Dimanche !

For sure we will never know the entire story of this loco,
but I am always happy to achieve knowledge on my marklin models Wink .

As you talk about "assembled from parts" ones,
it gives me the idea to start a comparison of my two E18,
again to discover more about.

At left the green one received in a 3024 - 03/59 dated blue box
At right the blue one unboxed, sold as "from 1965" which I supposed to be an
"assembled from parts in the late 70's" aka 3923.

diff_3023_3024_a.jpg

diff_3023_3024_b.jpg

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline TrainIride  
#75 Posted : 05 February 2017 18:11:18(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
The green one has a "convex" left buffer and a right flat buffer.
The blue one has two flat buffers.

The green one has no silver paint on the body
The blue one has a silver line on the bottom of the body, and the "E1835" is silver painted.


diff_3024.jpg


diff_3023.jpg
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Offline TrainIride  
#76 Posted : 05 February 2017 18:13:56(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
The green one has a pale grey roof.
The blue one has a shiny silver roof.

diff_3023_3024_c.jpg

See more soon...

Best Regards
Joël


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Offline jvuye  
#77 Posted : 05 February 2017 21:34:07(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
The green one has a pale grey roof.
The blue one has a shiny silver roof.

diff_3023_3024_c.jpg

See more soon...

Best Regards
Joël



Green one= original, assembled @ factory. Never had silver paint
Blue one = From parts, assembled locally. Always had silver stripes.
But doesn't matter. They are both beautiful

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline drstapes  
#78 Posted : 07 February 2017 00:40:20(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
A seminar work,congratulations.ThumpUp


great job and well done!

regards

Geoff
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
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Offline TrainIride  
#79 Posted : 08 February 2017 09:58:00(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Green one= original, assembled @ factory. Never had silver paint
Blue one = From parts, assembled locally. Always had silver stripes.
But doesn't matter. They are both beautiful


Hi Jacques

For sure they are beautiful Love !

Thank you for your analysis.

Best Regards
Joël
Offline TrainIride  
#80 Posted : 08 February 2017 09:59:37(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: drstapes Go to Quoted Post


great job and well done!

regards

Geoff


Hi Geoff,

Thank you so much.
I'm glad you like it !

Best Regards
Joël
Offline TrainIride  
#81 Posted : 12 February 2017 14:31:57(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Now let us see what differs inside the two locos:


inside the 1959 green 3024

1_new_wiring_inside.JPG


inside the recent blue 3023 see how the motor cover is completely different

mn3023_inside_d.jpg




inside the 1959 green 3024

4_shrink_tube.JPG


inside the recent blue 3023 the choke (UKW Drossel) is also different
and we have a nice view on the gears !

mn3023_inside_a.jpg


Best Regards
Joël

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Offline jvuye  
#82 Posted : 12 February 2017 15:06:01(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Very good pictures!
Mine are both assembled from kits.
Both have been workhorses on my layout , I love them. No train too long or too heavy.
They got even better when I converted them to 5-pole motor + digital.
In addition, I have also an original MS 800 early 1950's, which was significantly different inside!
The only non original part for that one is that I swapped a set of drivers for a set with adherence tires, but I left it analog.
I have kept the original axle....the collectors can calm down: there was no irreparable outrage committed. Smile Wink
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline jvuye  
#83 Posted : 12 February 2017 15:44:44(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Since we mentioned the MS 800 and its differences, here are a couple of pictures.
Major difference is that all 4 axles are powered, although only the external ones carry the weight of the loco.
No flanges on the middle drivers, this long loco negotiates the 360 mm radius without any trouble.
Also note, under the brushes, the friction driven switch that performs directional light changes.
It is driven from the central gear shaft in the lower part of the transmission.
From memory that light inversion gizmo was first used on the CCS 800 in 1947 , then on the RE 800, TP 800, TT 800, ST 800, DL 800 and DT 800.
I haven't found/seen evidence of it on any other loco since.
Maybe someone knows?

Lite MS 800_1.jpg

All driver axles powered, you can barely see the "friction gizmo" on the other side of the big central middle gear

Lite MS 800_2.jpg

Heavy equipment!

Lite MS 800_3.jpg

And the original connection between pantos. Note the little piece of insulating cardboard on the contact side..

Lite MS 800_4.jpg

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline TrainIride  
#84 Posted : 12 February 2017 18:28:20(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Hi Jacques,

Thank you for posting these nice pictures of your MS800 ThumpUp

This enlarges the family !

I have well noticed this very inventive light reversing system !

And also the axle you have replaced, as it is thinner than its neighbors Smile .

And maybe you have also replaced a screw - hexagonal head ? - on the right front truck...

Best Regards
Joël
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Offline jvuye  
#85 Posted : 12 February 2017 18:36:17(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jacques,

Thank you for posting these nice pictures of your MS800 ThumpUp

This enlarges the family !

I have well noticed this very inventive light reversing system !

And also the axle you have replaced, as it is thinner than its neighbors Smile .

And maybe you have also replaced a screw - hexagonal head ? - on the right front truck...

Best Regards
Joël


Very good observation Joël!!
At the time when I replaced the front pony wheel (because of creeping zink pest) I didn't have the right one, so I used one from a steam loco valve gear set !
Time for a small correction of this capital sin!!
Laugh Smile Wink
Thanks you for being so attentive!
EDIT: Fixed !!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline TrainIride  
#86 Posted : 20 February 2017 10:13:05(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Hi Jacques,

It's nice you have been able to replace the "temporary" Smile
repair with an original part even if this repair was looking perfect. ThumpUp

I also noticed the small piece of insulating tape beneath the end of the slider, on the opposite side.

I had to do the same, because of the short circuits
with the chassis when passing on the M-track turnouts...

Best Regards
Joël
Offline jvuye  
#87 Posted : 20 February 2017 17:38:50(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,695
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jacques,
....
I also noticed the small piece of insulating tape beneath the end of the slider, on the opposite side.

I had to do the same, because of the short circuits
with the chassis when passing on the M-track turnouts...

Best Regards
Joël


Hi Joël
Yes good observation.
The main reason is that the MS 800 was originally fitted with "spoon" type pick ups, designed to work on the continuous central solid rail.
When came the time of the "pukos" , I picked this slider because it fitted the length, but the chassis was not designed with enough space to accommodate the ski's rounded edge.
The 3023/24 were in theory designed to avoid this, but as you and I know all too well, it's sort of "hit and miss", particularly on C-track where pukos on the double slips seem to be a bit higher.

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline TrainIride  
#88 Posted : 01 November 2019 18:52:18(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Hi friends,

for the 60th anniversary of Lady 3024,
I finally decided to replace the grey rotor with used teeth, with the green one yo can see on the picture.



Marklin_3024_rotor_zoom.jpg


Still have to add the missing inside wire for catenary power _ I have received the corresponding sockets,
and maybe re adjust the wheels space, I have done it a bit, but maybe not enough.

Please enjoy Lady 3024 running on the layout:



Best Regards
Joël
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#89 Posted : 02 November 2019 14:11:30(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,564
Location: Southwesternmost
Wonderful, it is a pleasure to watch the old lady cruising on the twisted and folded dogbone course. Regarding the passenger cars: I always liked the green shorties with the indented doors. And only now I realise how drastically you altered the “historic” part of your layout. Chapeau !
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Offline TrainIride  
#90 Posted : 06 November 2019 20:58:55(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,524
Location: FRANCE
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Wonderful, it is a pleasure to watch the old lady cruising on the twisted and folded dogbone course. Regarding the passenger cars: I always liked the green shorties with the indented doors. And only now I realise how drastically you altered the “historic” part of your layout. Chapeau !


Thank you Ak !

You must know, at first, I had planned to keep the M-tracks on the "historic" part of the layout, and then just adding C-track on the new section.
But the so delicate behavior my both E18 had on M-track turnouts convinced me to replace all the tracks.

I am a fan of M-tracks, but I am also fan of these lovely 3023 and 3024 !
So I had to choose.
Even if M-tracks , with their round rail top are really catching less dust than C-tracks with their flat rail top.

Best Regards
Joël
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