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Offline QQQ1970  
#1 Posted : 24 October 2019 04:18:45(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Can CS3 do train detection (showing which train in which block) like Railcom?
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 24 October 2019 07:36:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,533
Location: DE-NW
Train detection is a patent-protected feature of RailCom and mfx cannot do this for legal reasons.
AFAIK there is no RailCom with CS3.
The ECoS is an alternative with RailCom.

PC control and s88 can be used as a workaround that works with CS3 and unmodified locos.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline QQQ1970  
#3 Posted : 24 October 2019 14:00:17(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Thanks for the info. If I use PC software, do I still need CS3 and will it be able to detect which trains at which block?
Offline Goofy  
#4 Posted : 24 October 2019 14:08:35(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,072
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the info. If I use PC software, do I still need CS3 and will it be able to detect which trains at which block?


Have you tried JMRI?
Not sure because i do not use PC and control layout via CS3 when i use digital system instead.

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline geir  
#5 Posted : 01 November 2019 17:21:39(UTC)
geir

Norway   
Joined: 02/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Hordaland, Bergen
If you have 3 trains ,you can use magnet +reader and track switch.And logic
1 Trane have 1 magnet
1 Trane have 2 magnet (one on each side)
1 traine have 0 magnet.

This my be an option:
An RFID system consists of two separate components: a tag and a reader. Tags are analogous to barcode labels, and come in different shapes and sizes. The tag contains an antenna connected to a small microchip containing up to two kilobytes of data. The reader, or scanner, functions similarly to a barcode scanner; however, while a barcode scanner uses a laser beam to scan the barcode, an RFID scanner uses electromagnetic waves.

Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 01 November 2019 20:07:01(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,077
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
If I really wanted to do train-id then using some sort of RFID sensing under the track or even barcodes might be a viable option... it all depends on how many locos you need to track. With PC's you let the software know what is where, and as it routes trains and sees "something show up" where expected, it can logically conclude it must be the thing I sent there.
But the "from cold power off in unknowns state", to determine what is where, thats been done with RFID in chess peices in the 1990s, so it would be a good way to go .. but it would be interesting if someone could develop a circuit that could be attached to each 'block' of isolated track and read out whats in its block (if anything). No solutions there that I'm aware of.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline DaleSchultz  
#7 Posted : 01 November 2019 21:33:50(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,129
Zimo system has loco ID capabilities via their decoders. You can pick up a loco and put it elsewhere on the layout and it knows what it there.

Pretty much superfluous though, as you say, because software can track where things go (and save the state to disk all the time too).
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#8 Posted : 01 November 2019 22:07:17(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: Täby
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
Can CS3 do train detection (showing which train in which block) like Railcom?


Simple answer: No
The CS3 can detect new locos showing up on the track (mfx). But it only knows that it is on the track, not where. To detect trains on the layout you need to add feedback modules (s88) and contacts. They tell the CS3 where a track is occupied, but you still don’t know which train is where. PC software can use this information to find out where the trains are.

K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 02 November 2019 14:18:08(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,610
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
Can CS3 do train detection (showing which train in which block) like Railcom?


Simple answer: No
The CS3 can detect new locos showing up on the track (mfx). But it only knows that it is on the track, not where. To detect trains on the layout you need to add feedback modules (s88) and contacts. They tell the CS3 where a track is occupied, but you still don’t know which train is where. PC software can use this information to find out where the trains are.



I suspect that the mfx feedback could tell where the train is, at least to the point of which booster is it on, but because of the patent that covers Railcom Marklin are unable to implement a Railcom like detection (which is what mfx would do) without paying a licensing fee, which they probably do not wish to do.

Offline QQQ1970  
#10 Posted : 02 November 2019 15:07:58(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Ontario, Toronto
I intend to install Traincontroller at some point so my read is I don't need to replace my CS3 with ESU Ecos to do train detection (which train on where).
Offline Danlake  
#11 Posted : 02 November 2019 19:51:22(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,458
Correct, Traincontroller from Freiwald software supports both CS2 and CS3.

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline QQQ1970  
#12 Posted : 02 November 2019 23:10:19(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Ontario, Toronto
It is compatible. My question is does Traincontroller add functionality of tracking which train on which track when used with CS3, which does not offer that function?
Offline DaleSchultz  
#13 Posted : 02 November 2019 23:20:48(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,129
To clarify this a bit.....

I suspect the original question may not have implied automatic train identification.

By detecting trains that move (point detection) one can show what trains are where. i.e. the automatic identification of trains need not be part of the question.

So the question has now evolved to asking if TrainController software can maintain the state information of what train is where, using point detection.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Danlake  
#14 Posted : 03 November 2019 00:45:24(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,458
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
It is compatible. My question is does Traincontroller add functionality of tracking which train on which track when used with CS3, which does not offer that function?


Yes provided you are using some sort of feedback detection. I.e. you e.g. need to buy some S88 feedback modules and have occupancy track detection in the form of e.g. contact tracks.

During startup of the software, you will tell it where the trains are physically located (in which block) and which direction they are pointed it. After that the software will continuously keep track of the train movements. When you shut down the software and start up again it will assume you have left everything as it was and use that as the start up sequence.

It may seems less foul proof that an actual feedback ID that confirms train A is now physically in block X, but this is the concept used by many large exhibition layout and you can run the layout hours on end without any errors. The main thing is that you install a reliable feedback detection system and divided your layout up in a significant amount of blocks.

By the way, check this Traincontroller video to get familiar with the software:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w76-xEN6TSA

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline QQQ1970  
#15 Posted : 03 November 2019 01:00:22(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Thank you. You answered my question. While not ideal as positive feedback from train decider via Railcom to tell the system, as long as the contact tracks are properly built and have good detection this should be almost foul proof as positive feedback.

At least I don't need to replace CS3 with another command center for this reason.

Thanks for your feedbacks.

Regards,

Sebastian
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