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Offline Marklinacc52  
#1 Posted : 08 June 2019 16:10:21(UTC)
Marklinacc52

Australia   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: New South Wales, sunshine bay
Hello fellow collectors.

The early 700/800 catalog items carried an Alphanumeric number which I suggest was chosen to represent the model. These were in use from 1938 to 1957. The difference between 700 and 800 series models was the mechanism used to reverse the motor. 700 series had a manual reversing lever and the 800 series had the newer FernUmshalter (Remote Reversing switch) fitted inside.

Format of the number

AA nnn (A)(A)(A)

>>1st letter
>>2nd letter
>>nnn Series number 700/800
>>3rd/4th Letter - special feature

Letters added after the number usually referred to some special feature. e.g. HR 700 A the A=Anhang(Attachment) of a cow catcher(Kuhfanger) this was added to make the model acceptable for the USA market where early locos were fitted with cow catchers. N on the end denoted a new coupling fitted RS 800 N.Similarly the addtion of LMS and LNE were to indicate LMS=London Midland and Scottish Railway and LNE = London North Eastern railway.

German Terms

Schlepptenderlok = Steam Locomotive with a separate tender
Tenderlok = Steam Tank Locomotive
Ellok = Electric Overhead Locomotive
Triebwagen= railcar
Schienenbus = railbus
BR= Baureihe locomotive class
K= Kupplung (Klauenkupplung (Claw Coupling), Bugelkupplung(Loop coupling)
U=Umschalter(Reversal switch)
S=Stromabnehmer (Pantograph or Strom/ current abnehmer/collector)

Train types

Described in German literature that may have been used by Marklin to number their models

H -- HauptbahnStreckeZug - Mainline Train
F -- FernZug - Long distance train
R -- ReiseZug - Passenger express train
E -- EilZug - Fast stopping stain
G -- GuterZug - Goods Train
P -- PersonnenZug - Passenger Train
D -- DZug - DurchgangZug - Through fast passenger train
N -- NahverkehrsZug - Local or branch line train
M -- MischverkehrsZug - Mixed traffic train (passenger or Goods)

Proposed Catalog Number Meanings

I have no proof of the meaning that I have attached to theh catalog numbers below and would be happy if other collectors had any knowledge of the Marklin Factory backstory as to how they were chosen. Until then here is my proposed meanings based on my observations of the Locomotives an their descriptions in older Marklin catalogs.

R 700/800 - R=Reisezug (Passenger express train Locomotive) .... 0-4-0 Steam Locomotive with Tender
RU 700/800 - as above plus U=fernUmschalter (Remote reversal)
RS 700/800 - R=Reisezug S=Stromabnehmer (Passenger express train electric overhead locomotive)... 0-4-0 Electric Locomotive
RSU 700/800 - as above plus U=fernUmschalter (Remote reversal)
RM 800 - R= Reisezug M=Mischverkehr (Passenger and Goods Mixed Traffic) 0-6-0 BR24 Steam Loco
RSM 800 - R=Reisezug S=Stromabnehmer M=Mischverker (Passenger Electric Mixed Traffic Locomotive)

ES 800 - E=Ellok S=Stromabnehmer (Electric Overhead Loco) 1'B1' BRB E18 Simplified Electric Loco
E 800 LMS - E=England Model of a 2P 4-4-0 of the LMS railway.
SLR 700/800 - SL= Stromlinien R=ReiseZug ( Streamlined Passenger express engine) Note the nose shape and cab window indicating that this was modelled on the NYC Vanderbuilt engine and was destined for the USA market. However there were variants made for UK market with LMS and LNE attached to the catalog number. These were manufactured during the age of streamliners such as the A4 PAcifics, Coronation Scots in England.
HR 700/800 - H=Hauptbahn R=Reisezug (mainline passenger train locomotive)..2'C1'..4-6-2 BR 01 Pacific Steam Locomotive
HS 700/800 - H=Hauptbahn S=Stromabnehmer (Mainline or express passenger train electric overhead Locomotive) 1'C1' BR E18 Simplified Electric Locomotive
TWE 700/800 - TW= Triebwagen E= Eilzug (Fast railcar)

MS 800 - M=Mischverkehr S=Stromabnehmer (Mixed Traffic Overhead Electric Locomotive) 1'D'1' DB E18 Electric Locomotive
CCS 800 - CC= 2 sets Coupled Wheels S=Stromabnehmer or S=Schweiz (Swiss) 1' C C 1'.. Ce6/8 SBB Crocodile
CM 800 - C = 3 Coupled Wheels M=Mischverkehr (Tank Engine with 3 driven axles for mixed traffic)
CE 800 - C= 3 coupled wheels E=Ellok (Electric (Rangier) Shunting locomotive)
DA 800 - D=D-Zug A=Aufbau Kunstoff (Durchgang Zug - Through Passenger train, Aufbau -Construction from plastic)
DB 800 K - D=D-Zug B=ScheienenBus (Duchgang Zug Railbus) K= Kleinanzieger (small trailer)
DL 800 - D=Doppel or Diesel L=Ellok (Diesel ellectric) Destined for USA market
DT 800 - D=D-Zug or Doppel T=Triebwagen (Through Passenger Train Double railcar)
FM 800 - F = Fernzug M=Mischverkehr (Long Distance mixed traffic locomotive)
F 800 - F=Fernzug (Express Passenger Steam Locomotive) 2' C 1' .. 4-6-2 BR 01 Pacific Steam Locomotive
SK800 - S=Stomlinien K=Kupp (Streamline Locomotive made by Krupp The prototype had 4 driving wheels not three but marklin made it as a 4-6-4 to negotiate the curves)

SE 800 - S=Schnellzug E=Ellok (Express Train Electric Locomotive) BR E44 Electic Locomotive. All wheels driven
SET 800 - S=Schnellzug E=Ellok T=geTriebe modified (German Electric Locomotive) BR E44 Electic Locomotive. I suggest T was just a differentiating code for modified transmission from the earlier SE 800 the later models had only the middle two wheels driven
SEW 800 - S=Schnellzug E=Ellok W= Western Europe BR BB 10000 der SNCF
SEF 800 - S=Schnellzug E=Ellok F= Frankreich (French) BR BB 10000 der SNCF
SEH 800 - S=Schnellzug E=Ellok H= Hollandisch (Holland - Netherlands)BR 1100 der NS

T800 - T=Tenderlok (Tank Engine)
TM800 - T=Tenderlok M=Mischverkehr (Tank locomotive for Mixed Traffic Trains or shunting) c .. 0-6-0 BR 80 Class Tank Engine
TP800 - T=Tenderlok P=Passengier (Tank locomotive for Passenger trains) 1'C1' .. 2-6-2 BR 64 Class TAnk Engine
TT800 - T=Tenderlok (Goods Tank engine) I suggest T= geTriebe fur Langsamfahrt (special low gearing Transmission fitted for slow running goods trains) 1'D1' 2-8-2 BR 86 Tank engine

G800 - G=Guterzug (Goods Locomotive) 1'E .. 2-10-0 BR 44 Heavy Goods Engine
GN800 - G=Guterzug N=Neu(New) Schweisstender (Plastic tender). 1'E .. 2-10-0 DR 044 Class Heavy Goods Steam Loco. The Original G800 had a diecast Nietentender the later models had the Schweisstender
GS800 - G= Guterzug (Goods Locomotive) S=Stomabnehmer or Swedisch (SJ Sweden) SJ Da Class Electric Locomotive

Edited by user 11 June 2019 13:30:54(UTC)  | Reason: Clarify and added more detail

thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Marklinacc52
Offline kamstutz  
#2 Posted : 08 June 2019 23:25:00(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 141
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Marklinacc52 Go to Quoted Post
Proposed Catalog Number Meanings (for 700 and 800 series locomotives)


First of all welcome to the Forum. In the Collector's Corner you will find a good assembly of international M train enthusiasts who are sure to help you out if you have any questions and will add to your threads in the event that they have comments on your posts. Many of the readers in this section of the M Users dot Net Forum also collect the 700 and 800 series locomotives and other out of production models so you'll find quite a bit of vintage M knowledge aggregated in these pages.

With regards to your attempt at explaining the alphabetic two and three letter prefixes to the 700 and 800 series locomotives I like your explanations and think that it is quite plausible that you are close to deciphering their meanings. I don't believe that Maerklin arbitrarily assigned letters to their models so there must be a backstory to their meaning and your breakdown might possibly be close, if not spot on, for most of the ones you have listed. There are a few readers in the Forum that might be able to add some comments to your suggestions so I'll follow this thread and see if anyone comments or provides alternative interpretations.

Thanks again for the list.

Kurt
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kamstutz
Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 09 June 2019 10:30:00(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,966
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Hi (name?),

I agree with Kurt, it's a very good attempt and I think more than coincidental that most of the codes seem to follow your logic. I have from time to time wondered myself about the naming convention and that there appeared to be some consistency to it, but the idea to settle in and really study it was always put off for a 'rainy day' :-)

Taking your theory into account, I wondered about the GS800? - although it was never released as such (it came in 1957 as 3018/3019) it was planned for 1956.

The only other 'G' is the G800, so I suggest GS800 - G=Guterzug (Goods Locomotive) S=Stromabnehmer?, even though in the catalogue it's a "Mixed Traffic" Loco and came in a starter set with Passenger coaches but never as a freight set.

Good effort, certainly worth of serious consideration. Have you ever seen it discussed on any of the German forums?

I'd like to hear what Markus Schild has to offer re this.

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline Marklinacc52  
#4 Posted : 09 June 2019 11:36:18(UTC)
Marklinacc52

Australia   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: New South Wales, sunshine bay
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi (name?),

I agree with Kurt, it's a very good attempt and I think more than coincidental that most of the codes seem to follow your logic. I have from time to time wondered myself about the naming convention and that there appeared to be some consistency to it, but the idea to settle in and really study it was always put off for a 'rainy day' :-)

Taking your theory into account, I wondered about the GS800? - although it was never released as such (it came in 1957 as 3018/3019) it was planned for 1956.

The only other 'G' is the G800, so I suggest GS800 - G=Guterzug (Goods Locomotive) S=Stromabnehmer?, even though in the catalogue it's a "Mixed Traffic" Loco and came in a starter set with Passenger coaches but never as a freight set.

Good effort, certainly worth of serious consideration. Have you ever seen it discussed on any of the German forums?

I'd like to hear what Markus Schild has to offer re this.

Cheers

Steve


Hi Steve - My take on the GS800 is G=Guterzug S=Swedisch(SJ Sweden) This loco as you say was released as 3019 in 1957 the Green Version. These locos in Sweden were indeed used for heavy goods traffic. Marklin re-released the Green Swedish Da Class Model in 2015 together with the Crocodile to celebrate 100 years of the first Swedish Electric railway opened in 1915.
Offline Marklinacc52  
#5 Posted : 09 June 2019 11:50:24(UTC)
Marklinacc52

Australia   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: New South Wales, sunshine bay
Hi Steve and Kurt I found this website that shows a picture of the original Green Swedish DA Locomotive that MArklin based their model on.
https://mytrains.se/page.php?51
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Marklinacc52
Offline Leopold4  
#6 Posted : 09 June 2019 17:56:07(UTC)
Leopold4

Belgium   
Joined: 29/10/2017(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Vlaams-Brabant, Grimbergen
Hello,
The manual reverse switch in Märklin 700 serie loks, could be replaced bij a selenium pack, diode pack, then when using DC-power, reversing was possible by reversing polarity. This technology before 1940.... always ahead of time,

Leopold
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Leopold4
Offline kamstutz  
#7 Posted : 09 June 2019 21:24:50(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 141
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Marklinacc52 Go to Quoted Post
re: ...GS800 is G=Guterzug S=Swedisch(SJ Sweden) ... These locos in Sweden were indeed used for heavy goods traffic.


I now remember why I don't have a green 3019/GS800 in my collection. I could never find passenger cars to match with it (discounting the fact that the 3019 is a bit pricey...) The GS800/3018 matches with my #4020/4021, but I never thought to match a 3019 with freight cars. Good to know that I could match one with my SJ freight cars as well. ... back to the hunt. ThumpUp

Kurt

Offline TEEWolf  
#8 Posted : 09 June 2019 21:58:57(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,621
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Marklinacc52 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steve and Kurt I found this website that shows a picture of the original Green Swedish DA Locomotive that MArklin based their model on.
https://mytrains.se/page.php?51


Hello,

I am not a collector and I certainly do not have the knowledge about old locos as you do. I got attention to this thread, because of the TT 800, which is still today a BR 86. I am interested in the BR 86, because this was the main loco in the railway station near my house, I was raised. I saw, heard and smelled her every day several times. Of course I do have this BR 86 as H0 model meanwhile (one loco out of this double package 37862 Märklin BR 86).

As you wrote the name TT 800 (and others) were the first article numbers by Märklin. They changed it to only digit numbers in the years 1956 to 1958. I could not find an exact date. Overall, perhaps sometimes you ask at the new Märklineum in Goeppingen for the historic notations and structure of these historic article numbers.

During my researches in the internet I found some links to those older Maerklin models. If you (and especially ThewolfBigGrin) do not hit me (they are massive) for such links I list them all up here. Some are in English, but mainly in German and all have plenty of pictures about these old locos and I think (and hope9 you are interested in these pictures.

Start with the green and brown GS 800
http://deerbe.com/unt/76..._siehe_beschreibung.html
http://maerklin-sammler-...otiven/gs_800/gs_800.htm
https://www.imarklin.com...hp?&elocwaarde=GS800
https://www.altemodellba...in-GS-oder-Primex-E.html
https://www.lokmuseum.de...te=&SID=5461619125cf
https://www.ritter-resta...mail=;usrPwd=;katKey=1.3
https://www.ritter-resta...il=;usrPwd=;katKey=1.3.3
https://ttn-shop.com/ers...0.php?spur=B&lang=de
https://www.historytoy.c...-dampflokomotive-spur-h0
http://maerklin-sammler-...omotiven/03096/03096.htm
https://www.modelleisenb....com/second/shop.php?n=1

And indeed in the various communities is not very much discussed about older or even historic locos. But an special "Forum Alte Modellbahnen" exists for old MRR. Probably many of you know this forum already, although it is unfortunately only in German available.

https://www.altemodellbahnen.de/

In this forum are some pictures of these old locos and cars too.

https://www.altemodellba...Gusswagen.html#msg222847

as well as documentations for cleaning, repair, etc.

https://www.altemodellba...-im-Wandel-der-Zeit.html

and some pictures

https://www.bahnbilder.d...aerklin-tp-8001-414.html
https://ttn-shop.com/ersatzteilliste-tt800.php
http://up.picr.de/26972834oz.pdf

and if you want to buy one, try it here. But they are even more expensive as the brand new Märklin locos.

https://www.michelstaedt...erlok-achsfolge-b-101301
https://suter-meggen.ch/Shop/maerklin/tp800.htm

But I cannot follow your explanations for these articel numbers. Indeed T seems to be standing for Tender, because in German a tender is always a coal container attached directly to the loco. Whereas a seperate coal car pulled by the loco always named "Schlepptender" (haul tender). All locos starting with the T got a coal box attached to the loco.

But don't you think the second letter has more to do with the transmission, axle drive or a specific feature at the model than with the usage of a loco?

See here the locos from

T 800 = 2 axle drive
https://www.lokmuseum.de...tive&Seite=&SID=

TM 800 = 3 axle drive
https://www.lokmuseum.de...ahr=-1&bisbaujahr=-1

TT 800 = 4 axle drive
https://www.lokmuseum.de...086&Seite=1&SID=

What are you thinking about this calssification?

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 09 June 2019 22:45:50(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,966
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Marklinacc52 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Hi (name?),

I agree with Kurt, it's a very good attempt and I think more than coincidental that most of the codes seem to follow your logic. I have from time to time wondered myself about the naming convention and that there appeared to be some consistency to it, but the idea to settle in and really study it was always put off for a 'rainy day' :-)

Taking your theory into account, I wondered about the GS800? - although it was never released as such (it came in 1957 as 3018/3019) it was planned for 1956.

The only other 'G' is the G800, so I suggest GS800 - G=Guterzug (Goods Locomotive) S=Stromabnehmer?, even though in the catalogue it's a "Mixed Traffic" Loco and came in a starter set with Passenger coaches but never as a freight set.

Good effort, certainly worth of serious consideration. Have you ever seen it discussed on any of the German forums?

I'd like to hear what Markus Schild has to offer re this.

Cheers

Steve


Hi Steve - My take on the GS800 is G=Guterzug S=Swedisch(SJ Sweden) This loco as you say was released as 3019 in 1957 the Green Version. These locos in Sweden were indeed used for heavy goods traffic. Marklin re-released the Green Swedish Da Class Model in 2015 together with the Crocodile to celebrate 100 years of the first Swedish Electric railway opened in 1915.



I overlooked of course the other 'g' - the GN800 - 'N' has not appeared with any other models.

Speculation ? (the differences between G & GN were discussed here... https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t2717-G800---GN800-difference

PS - be nice to have your name to address instead of just your handle :-)

Edited by user 10 June 2019 11:12:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Marklinacc52  
#10 Posted : 10 June 2019 11:24:43(UTC)
Marklinacc52

Australia   
Joined: 07/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: New South Wales, sunshine bay
Hello fellow collectors and contributors to my post on Old Marklin Locos. In response to your requests, my Name is Allyn Cooke, I live on the south coast of NSW in Australia. I collect Hornby Dublo three rail, Marklin three rail 1952-1975 (French, Swiss, German outline), and French Hornby O Gauge. I am a member of the Hornby Railway Collectors Association of Australia (HRCAA) Since 2000
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