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Offline QQQ1970  
#1 Posted : 14 April 2019 15:49:13(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Enjoy!

Edited by user 06 May 2019 17:40:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline dickinsonj  
#2 Posted : 15 April 2019 17:09:02(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,172
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
Enjoy!



I certainly did enjoy that video - thanks! The 39570 crane is looking every bit as good as I have hoped it would.

BTW - did I see synchronised smoke on that BR 85? If so, does anyone know who made that beauty?

Edited by user 16 April 2019 01:07:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline steventrain  
#3 Posted : 15 April 2019 21:00:37(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,747
Excellent video.

Is the New Roco BR85?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline QQQ1970  
#4 Posted : 16 April 2019 01:13:14(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Roco Class 85, announced at 2018 Nuremberg Toy Fair.
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Offline QQQ1970  
#5 Posted : 05 May 2019 16:03:51(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Ontario, Toronto
I picked up mine over the weekend and did a test run at the dealer. Here are my observations:

1. The low car support is a cradle with a long pin in the middle that secures the boom. As such there is very little play allowed when the boom is in rest position and it doesn't work over turnouts or curves with S bends. You can raise the boom above the support position to get around that (somewhat non-prototypical) but it would be a potential problem if you layout has tunnels or catenary posts. It also explains why R1 curves are problematic.

2. Due to prototypical design, the hook may not drop under its own weight, and Marklin suggests a weight is hung under the hook to prevent unspooling. I find this somewhat disappointing and why it doesn't use heavier material for the hook to compensate for this is beyond me.

3. The boom and hook motion has very controlled motion but the superstructure rotates too fast for prototypical operations. I have yet to look into CV if this can be adjusted.

4. Apparently as someone has posted on Stummiforum, the low side car has a sag. On closer examination it appears the low side has three sections bonded together with a slight sag on purpose. To be clear the flat side is one piece so it is real flat.

Otherwise, the crane performs as advertised.

Cheers.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#6 Posted : 05 May 2019 16:43:26(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,172
Location: United States
Thanks for your review and initial impressions. ThumpUp
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
1. The low car support is a cradle with a long pin in the middle that secures the boom. As such there is very little play allowed when the boom is in rest position and it doesn't work over turnouts or curves with S bends. You can raise the boom above the support position to get around that (somewhat non-prototypical) but it would be a potential problem if you layout has tunnels or catenary posts. It also explains why R1 curves are problematic.

I will interested to learn if that is a problem only on tight radii curves or is also a problem on the larger radii curves. Do you think that it will not pass through any turnouts without raising the boom a bit? I guess this is a problem that I can largely overlook because my crane will most likely get spotted to a good location on my layout where it can do its stuff, and not spend a lot of time moving around my layout.
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
2. Due to prototypical design, the hook may not drop under its own weight, and Marklin suggests a weight is hung under the hook to prevent unspooling. I find this somewhat disappointing and why it doesn't use heavier material for the hook to compensate for this is beyond me.

I wonder if this might improve with use. I guess adding a weight makes sense, but I agree that it would have been better if the hook had enough weight to avoid this happening on its own.
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
3. The boom and hook motion has very controlled motion but the superstructure rotates too fast for prototypical operations. I have yet to look into CV if this can be adjusted.

I noticed the fast rotation in some videos which would make it harder to position correctly. I hope that a CV change might be available to slow down the rotation to a more controllable rate.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline QQQ1970  
#7 Posted : 06 May 2019 04:35:26(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I will interested to learn if that is a problem only on tight radii curves or is also a problem on the larger radii curves. Do you think that it will not pass through any turnouts without raising the boom a bit? I guess this is a problem that I can largely overlook because my crane will most likely get spotted to a good location on my layout where it can do its stuff, and not spend a lot of time moving around my layout.


I think it depends on the track geometry. I have two regular left turnouts 24611 connecting two parallel straight tracks. My problem is there is no straight section between the two curved sections so the crane has to negotiate a S bend when switching tracks. I guess if there is a straight track in between, the crane should be able to negotiate even regular turnouts.

I notice the low side car support for Goliath does not have the center pin and allows more play for the boom to sway on curves compared to Ardelt crane. Not sure the Ardelt prototype low side car support has the center pin in which case Marklin is staying true to the prototype and limits the operation to R2 curves. Otherwise I think the center pin is an unnecessary feature.

I should also mention when lowering the boom to the rest position, you may need to use your hand to bend the hook inward near the end to allow the boom to settle into the center pin on the support. Hopefully over time the hook is more flexible with use.

Hope that helps.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#8 Posted : 06 May 2019 14:35:23(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,172
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post

I think it depends on the track geometry. I have two regular left turnouts 24611 connecting two parallel straight tracks. My problem is there is no straight section between the two curved sections so the crane has to negotiate a S bend when switching tracks. I guess if there is a straight track in between, the crane should be able to negotiate even regular turnouts.

I have 10 sets of 24711 and 24712 turnout pairs, none of which have any straight sections joining them, so I will have to be careful when moving that crane from one line to another. My permanent layout is still some time away and I guess that is an arrangement that I should consider avoiding, although it would add unwanted spacing between my lines. I also have four three-way turnouts which a lot of my locos do not work well on so I imagine they will be an issue as well.

Thanks for the insights.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Phascolarctos  
#9 Posted : 08 May 2019 07:24:30(UTC)
Phascolarctos

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Washington State
Friends of the Ardelt Crane:

A few comments on the operation of the Ardelt Steam Crane. I have mine in use since February 2019, my German dealer had it in stock since December but I had held delivery until a larger order had accumulated. I have tested the crane extensively since there had been some reports on Stummi that questioned how well it would handle tight curves and switches. Maerklin didn't help when they wrote that the crane can't negotiate the 360mm curves. I can attest that the crane can handle tight curves and s-turns if driven not too fast (i.e. at an appropriate scale speed). To me, the main concerns appears to be the crane's bogie itself because of its large distance between the axles, not the boom. (just like they don't recommend to drive their DR BR 08 or the Big Boy through the 360 mm curve - it looks ugly, but works)

The center pin in the support cradle that was mentioned above actually helps with negotiating those tight curves. The boom itself has an ingenious design so that the bottom mounts of the boom can actual swivel in the housing of the crane. This, however, also limits the maximum load that the crane can lift, making the bottom of the boom somewhat "soft" in its mount.

I tried to lift a small Koef locomotive, but that was "a bit" too much. A medium size Wiking truck was more like it. When lifting larger masses with the boom perpendicular to the tracks, make certain that the bogie outriggers at positioned on their pads to prevent tipping. These outriggers have a fine thread to adjust their height, and the best way to adjust them up or down is with a small screwdriver (there is a slot at the top for just that purpose). By now, I have noticed several times that the outriggers actually move down by themselves due to the unavoidable vibrations when moving the crane over longer distances - so much so that the outriggers would derail the crane when moving through switches. ...that's why screws usually need to be secured (safety wire or loctite) to keep them from moving when exposed to vibrations.

And finally: As mentioned above, the hook does not always drop under its own weight. If that happens, try to pull it down right away to avoid too much slack in its cable. Otherwise, you risk that the cable gets entangled with the other cables or itself on the spool that winds it up or lets it out. For me, the result were four hours of "surgery" under a head-band magnifying glass with the looming risk of having to send my new crane back to the Goeppingen "Ausbesserungswerk" (railroad repair works) - which I dreaded, not just for the shipping cost. I didn't want to admit defeat and loose my new pride and joy so soon.

I have added two covered era 3 maintenance box cars (Fleischmann and Brawa) and a Roco caboose for the crew as well as a water tank car and gondola for coal. My favorite (and suitable) locos for the crane train are the Maerklin DB BR 94 or Piko BR 82 tank locos, others would be a DB BR V36 or V60, i.e. any shunting loco.

All in all, a "marvelous toy!" (with apologies to Peter, Paul and Mary). Enjoy!

Phascolarctos
Golden Maerklin Jubilee on Christmas 2018



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Offline QQQ1970  
#10 Posted : 09 May 2019 03:41:16(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Ontario, Toronto
Thanks for your note. Somehow my experience is different. From the photos attached the flat car tilts when negotiating regular turnouts when the boom is in rest position. At low speed it tilts and could derail at higher speed. Agree the boom swivels on curve but apparently not enough to negotiate the turnout without tilting the flat car. Any advice?

On another topic, the crane housing rotates very fast and it is difficult to align the crane housing straight with the bogie. Can I adjust the housing rotate speed? And would a housing not exactly aligned with bogie affect boom swivel angle?

20190508_212752.jpg20190508_212727.jpg20190508_212208.jpg20190508_212308.jpg15573656842398082917639794422262.jpg
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Offline Phascolarctos  
#11 Posted : 09 May 2019 04:11:57(UTC)
Phascolarctos

United States   
Joined: 08/05/2019(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Washington State
QQQ1970:

I just saw your new questions come in, and I added comments to my response to your thread on the support cars:

https://www.marklin-user...personenwagen#post592400

Cheers,

Phascolarctos
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Offline dickinsonj  
#12 Posted : 09 May 2019 13:12:01(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,172
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Phascolarctos Go to Quoted Post
Q I added comments to my response to your thread on the support cars:

That is good information to have. I don't have my 49570 yet and it is good learn about the subtle points of its use before hand. ThumpUp

I makes sense to me that slack in the cables would ease some of the problems that Q sees (don't I remember you from Star Trek?), as that should free the boom to move more easily.

The user manual lists CVs 3, 4 and 5 as acceleration delay, braking delay and maximum speed respectively, which are unclear in this application. I wonder if adjusting those would affect the speed of movement problem that Q has. It sounds like it might be time to email a question to the digital newsletter guys about the specifics of those settings. If I learn anything I will post the answers here.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
Offline QQQ1970  
#13 Posted : 09 May 2019 13:14:36(UTC)
QQQ1970

Canada   
Joined: 06/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Ontario, Toronto
I tried changing acceleration delay and maximum speed settings and it doesn't seem to work.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#14 Posted : 09 May 2019 13:28:51(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,172
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970 Go to Quoted Post
I tried changing acceleration delay and maximum speed settings and it doesn't seem to work.


That is disappointing. I just sent an email to the North American digital team about the CV values and what they may or may not control. I will post their answer to this thread if I learn anything useful.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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